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School me on Diesel Trucks...

tigerbalm2424

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Currently running a 2005 F150 as my daily driver. I only really "use" the trucks capabilities 3-5000 miles a year, the rest is commute. I am planning to get a cheap better mileage vehicle to run for DD and store the truck until its needed. I know several individuals that let their ford gassers sit for a couple weeks or so between use and they have nothing but problems (leaking injectors, coil packs failing, etc). All problems then never had when driving them as DD.

Looking to get into a diesel (not new) to use 3000-5000 miles per year to pull the boat, sleds, and enclosed trailers. Any issues with letting a diesel sits for periods of time between use?
 
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nehog

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Diesels sit idle better than gas trucks, mostly because diesel fuel won't degrade as quickly as gasoline.
 

Buckgnarly

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I run my 89 F250 plow truck once a week (by "run" i mean idle up to temp), if I plow or not. Never had an issue yet, knock on wood!...no other special storage other than fuel additives.
 
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T

tigerbalm2424

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Well great. So with my mileage use (3-5k per year) I should be fine picking up a used diesel with around 150K or so.

Brand preferences? I have been looking around and ford diesel trucks outnumber chevrolet i'd say 10 to 1. I have always been a chevy guy until this last truck as a ford, because it was a steal in price.
 

Buckgnarly

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Well great. So with my mileage use (3-5k per year) I should be fine picking up a used diesel with around 150K or so.

Brand preferences? I have been looking around and ford diesel trucks outnumber chevrolet i'd say 10 to 1. I have always been a chevy guy until this last truck as a ford, because it was a steal in price.

My 7.3 IDI has about 256k on it, was owned by a truck shipping service (was maintained well) so I'm thinking it's just now broken in! Seriously though, GREAT truck, but I've been battling salt/rust issues. I plan on a resto and using it like you do, hauling toys and stuff.
 

GirlnAgarage

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Well great. So with my mileage use (3-5k per year) I should be fine picking up a used diesel with around 150K or so.

Brand preferences? I have been looking around and ford diesel trucks outnumber chevrolet i'd say 10 to 1. I have always been a chevy guy until this last truck as a ford, because it was a steal in price.


Yeah, go cheaper with Chevy or Ford. The Cummins hold their value :D

I prefer Cummins for the diesel. But really, do your homework. Everyone has their brand preferences. What matters is you find a truck that you like.

You should find a lot of trucks (of any brand) around that mileage (100-150k) and for a decent price.
 

akdiesel

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Diesels in cold temps at idle for long periods of time will build carbon deposits and reduce the performance of the vehicle considerably. You can get rid of the build up by simply driving in a low gear at high rpms for a few miles to blow it out. Not sure if this is the case in warmer climates though.
I would say any vehicle sitting for long periods of time (who knows how long) is not good since cylinders are dry, dry rot, and not to mention rodent infest.
My 02 has sat for three weeks with no problems.
The diesels are great for those types of loads you will be pulling but that's only part of the advantage. The larger trucks (diesel or gas) have the lager breaks and GVR making them a much safer tow vehicle.
 

GirlnAgarage

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They are really expensive...that is the most important lesson about them


Cost v. Benefits, like anything else.

OP said he was getting rid of an F150, getting a commuter and picking up a tow rig that would be used 3-5k/yr. That is not even an oil change worth of driving, plus any fuel costs.
 

GirlnAgarage

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Diesels in cold temps at idle for long periods of time will build carbon deposits and reduce the performance of the vehicle considerably. You can get rid of the build up by simply driving in a low gear at high rpms for a few miles to blow it out. Not sure if this is the case in warmer climates though.
I would say any vehicle sitting for long periods of time (who knows how long) is not good since cylinders are dry, dry rot, and not to mention rodent infest.
My 02 has sat for three weeks with no problems.
The diesels are great for those types of loads you will be pulling but that's only part of the advantage. The larger trucks (diesel or gas) have the lager breaks and GVR making them a much safer tow vehicle.


I think yes and no. Probably the key is how long was the truck up at running temps. During the summer here my truck gets up to op. temp within the first 1.5ml after start up. This winter which has been mild its taking 3-5mls to get up to running temp.
 

sberry

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I would seriously consider what the savings will be, how long is your commute? You really got to be driving to save much by buying another car to "save" money. I wouldnt worry about not driving your truck,,, driving it is what wears it out. They last a lot longer parked than on the road, move it on occasion, work the brakes, turn the bearings over, no big deal.
 

akdiesel

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The older diesels (pre super duty) do not have the build up as bad since the run hotter. The new emissions rules is what creates the problem, and at the colder temps (for me -10f and colder) the carbon will build.
 

Mr.Magoo

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Diesel a far more efficient fuel.As for sitting and not running. Take in mind that a stand by generator sits 99% of the time, comes on only when needed and is only started periodically for maintenance. Same goes with many farm tractors, pumps, support equipment, etc. Your real concerns are with body degradation and other, diesel engines are more costly to maintain, but preventive maintenance is the key. Could you imagine if we only had gasoline power in this country, we should have been utilizing small displacement diesel for cars about a hundred years ago. Go figure, a Volkswagen Jetta with diesel gets about 43-48 miles per gallon, could probably pull the boat too!
 

sdguy55

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I am a diesel mechanic. I work on semis and not trucks but i do know a fair amount on diesel pickups. If diesel is the route you wanna go (do some serious research) cummins are the best in my opinion. Dodges are **** but the motors are awesome. If you wanna go ford they are excellent also, except the 6.0 and 6.4 (6.4 isnt AS bad) if you get a 6.0 you might as well start saving alot of money right away. Horrible horrible motor. 7.3 is indestructable.
As far as maintenance goes. Oil changes cost more, filters cost more and have to be switched out more often. In winter time you HAVE to do a blend of #1 and #2 and wouldnt be a bad idea to have some additive added. And have diesel 911 on hand at all times. But despite all this extra precautions diesel is the best way to go if your hauling. Great mpgs nost of the time.
 

Aberdale

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Looking to get into a diesel (not new) to use 3000-5000 miles per year to pull the boat, sleds, and enclosed trailers. Any issues with letting a diesel sits for periods of time between use?


To answer your question, it depends. I have owned diesels since the early 80's. I currently have two diesel trucks, seven diesel tractors, and a diesel skid steer. You can let them sit idle for a period of time (Most of my tractors sit idle through the winter), but if they sit idle for a couple years you may have problems with algae buildup in the fuel which will clog the filters and possibly the injectors. When equipment is just sitting, certain things will deteriorate regardless of fuel preference. (Mostly rubber parts and seals.)

I recently just did the opposite of what you are considering. I had a Dodge 3500 with a Cummins that I purchased primarily for pulling a heavy trailer. It sat most of the time because it rode rough without a load, and I found that I didn't pull a trailer near as much as I thought I would. It nickeled and dimed me because every time I did use it, it seemed it always needed something.

I traded a Dodge Cummins for an F150 because the cost of maintaining the diesel was higher all around. (More frequent oil changes, higher oil and filter costs, costs for fuel filters, cost for glow plug replacement, two batteries instead of one, license plates, insurance, etc.) The cost of fuel is about 10-20% higher, and any repair parts are quite a bit more expensive when they're needed. I had to plug it in to start it in the winter. To sum it up, it was just plain more expensive and less convenient.

If I read between the lines and you just want an excuse to enjoy the diesel experience, then hey, by all means go for it. But if I were only going to use it to pull a trailer a few times a year (under 5000 miles), I would consider other options.

Dale
 

DZL JIM

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Diesels are really expensive to operate and maintain compared to a gasser F-150. The fuel costs more, the oil changes cost triple (and no you shouldn't go more than 3000k miles between changes), and since they are build very heavy duty the replacement parts are just plain expensive.
If the 150 just isn't up to pulling the loads you need to, then you have a valid desire.
But if it pulls OK and you want a diesel just because, stick with the truck you drive everyday.
IMO it does more harm letting them sit year after year than to drive it all the time.
Sure, they won't rack up the miles, but there are seals that dry out, moisture that will collect in the various places it shouldn't and so on. I'm a Ford guy through and through and they just plain love to run and be worked. Let them sit and they'll nickle and dime you to death.

Good luck.
 

GirlnAgarage

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theoldwizard1

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Looking to get into a diesel (not new) to use 3000-5000 miles per year to pull the boat, sleds, and enclosed trailers. Any issues with letting a diesel sits for periods of time between use?

You must have really DEEEEEEP POCKETS !

An F250/350, even one 5-6 year old, is still a lot of money, to be used that little.

Fuel economy on newer diesel is not as good as it was 10+ years ago.

There is quite a big difference between summer and winter blend diesel fuel.
 
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theoldwizard1

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If you consider the Ford's, only consider the 2000-2003 7.3 Ford Diesel's
The 7.3L "PowerStroke" turbo diesel was the best diesel engine that Ford has offered in the 20+ years. Good power. No "exotic" emission controls.

It came out on 1994. Why do not recommend the first 6 years ?


(FYI - most of the F250/350 with this engine that are for sale now have been beat to death !)
 
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Buckgnarly

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The 7.3L "PowerStroke" turbo diesel was the best diesel engine that Ford has offered in the 20+ years. Good power. No "exotic" emission controls.

It came out on 1994. Why do not recommend the first 6 years ?


(FYI - most of the ones that are for sale now have been beat to death !)

I would guess cavitation problems, or was that fixed for the 94+?
 

akdiesel

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I loose approx 4 mpg with #2 diesel (4 wheel drive included) in the winter.
I change my syn oil every 6000 miles.
Others on here are placing diesel trucks as the only heavy duty vehicles. The amount of oil and the cost of fuel are the only maintenance cost I have over a similar gas vehicle.
 

mudhog

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I bought a cummins just to use for pulling my trailers. I drive a 1999 $1k car every day. the dodge sits in my garage sometimes about two weeks before I need it sometimes more. I had not had any issues yet. I look at it this way, its to dam expensive to be a daily driver, when I bought it to pull trailers. I had a 97 powerstroke before this and traded it in with 235k miles on it. I keep my vehicles a long time and they were all purchased used, with low miles. my camper weighs in at 10k lbs empty A 1/2 ton truck through the hill country will not cut it.
 

Steevo

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My 2004 Dodge Ram withCummins turbo diesel sits for months at a time, but when I drive it, it is generally towing a trailer and running 750 miles non-stop to my second home, then acting as a DD for a week or two, then 750 miles back to primary residence, only to be washed, parked and sit for several more months.
It never misses a beat, never causes me a problem, and runs like a dream on the highway.
It currently has 93k miles on it, and gets about 6k a year added.
 

ScaldedDog

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I use my 2001 Excursion exactly as the OP is intending, and have done so for nearly nine years. The only issue I've had related to this usage model is that the thing just eats batteries. Moving it in and out of the garage, or driving it to Starbucks now and then, means the glow plugs are on, but the alternator doesn't spin long enough to recharge the batteries. I've had multiple sets of 85 month Interstates only last four years.

I change the oil annually, regardless of mileage, but it usually ends up being done at around 5K.

Mark
 

Steevo

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Diesels are really expensive to operate and maintain compared to a gasser F-150. The fuel costs more, the oil changes cost triple (and no you shouldn't go more than 3000k miles between changes), . . . . .

Good luck.

I am not sure what brand of diesel or what engine you may be referring to, but my Cummins TD in my Dodge Ram lists oil change intervals as 7500 miles for extreme duty (heavy towing, long idling, etc), and 15000 miles for standard duty. There's 15 quarts of oil in there, you'd have to be seriously abusing the engine to wear that oil out in 3000 miles.
 

ed_v

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The 7.3L "PowerStroke" turbo diesel was the best diesel engine that Ford has offered in the 20+ years. Good power. No "exotic" emission controls.

It came out on 1994. Why do not recommend the first 6 years ?


(FYI - most of the F250/350 with this engine that are for sale now have been beat to death !)

This!

I've been looking for an early 7.3L to use only around the farm. I have seen some great deals lately but I was unfortunately too late. I recently came across a '97' F-250 with only 69K miles for $1300. It was in great shape and owned by the school district. They had every service record. Unfortunately I was a day late :sad:

Ed
 

csp

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The fuel costs more, the oil changes cost triple (and no you shouldn't go more than 3000k miles between changes),

Hogwash. My oil is sent in for analysis every other oil change. Part of that analysis includes a suggested oil change interval and not once has it been below 5000 miles. This is on a '97 7.3 PSD with 187k on it.

Scalded Dog it sounds like you need something as simple as a battery maintainer. Sure is cheaper than batteries.
 

2fat2fly

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I've owned diesel trucks for about 20 years and I have a little information for you. I've owned a 2002 Dodge Cummins Dually since the spring of 2003. During that time I've put 140,000+ miles on it. The parts I've replaced during that time (besides brake pads,tires,oil and filter changes) are 1 tie-rod end, 1 injection pump (VP44), 1 lift pump,all 4 brake rotors, 1power steering pump, the full exhaust system, 1 wheel speed sensor and 1 brake caliper. The Dodge is nothing more than a shipping crate for the Cummins to me, but it has held up excellently.

There are two weak links on this truck. The automatic transmission is #1 and the VP44 injection pump is #2. My trans is still working very well and has needed no work, but I know people who didn't get out of warranty before they had to get the trans rebuilt. The injection pump will fail and it will be expensive.Generally the lift pump goes and doesn't supply enough pressure for the injection pump and then it goes. So you replace both at once.

Overall I'm happy with the Dodge and I plan to keep it until the wheels fall off.I've had it for 9 years and averaging the cost of maintenance over that time it isn't that expensive to own and maintain.
 

sdguy55

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I've owned diesel trucks for about 20 years and I have a little information for you. I've owned a 2002 Dodge Cummins Dually since the spring of 2003. During that time I've put 140,000+ miles on it. The parts I've replaced during that time (besides brake pads,tires,oil and filter changes) are 1 tie-rod end, 1 injection pump (VP44), 1 lift pump,all 4 brake rotors, 1power steering pump, the full exhaust system, 1 wheel speed sensor and 1 brake caliper. The Dodge is nothing more than a shipping crate for the Cummins to me, but it has held up excellently.

There are two weak links on this truck. The automatic transmission is #1 and the VP44 injection pump is #2. My trans is still working very well and has needed no work, but I know people who didn't get out of warranty before they had to get the trans rebuilt. The injection pump will fail and it will be expensive.Generally the lift pump goes and doesn't supply enough pressure for the injection pump and then it goes. So you replace both at once.

Overall I'm happy with the Dodge and I plan to keep it until the wheels fall off.I've had it for 9 years and averaging the cost of maintenance over that time it isn't that expensive to own and maintain.

I second this. If you get an earlier dodge (5.9l) you replace the lift pump. I prefer aftermaket in this case
 

rwhite692

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I have an 07 super duty CC which sits sometimes for a few weeks between uses.

After about 3 weeks, the batteries will be down significantly. On a few occasions I have had to throw the charger on for ~30 minutes on the 15A setting, and then she is good to go. No other problems.
 

kbs2244

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I think Aberdale said it well.
I just don’t see the need.

Diesels cost more up front and on everything after.
If you are not going to be taking advantage of their greater power and mileage why bother?

Get you new DD and drive the truck around the block every week end.
You will be money ahead.
 

wuntunearlybko

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just to add my .02 worth... i have owned my 96 F350 crew cab long bed for 6 years now. i perform all the work myself (including a ****** rebuild) and the costs are very reasonable. i put a bypass filter system on and change my oil about every 8-10k miles. i have my oil tested once every 6 months just to be sure and have never had a problem. i drive my truck sometimes 3 times a week, sometimes 1 every 3 weeks... it just depends. also, for the last three years i have been making and running bio-diesel so fuel comes cheap for me. with my time and materials included i pay around $1.70 for fuel.

a few years ago i bought an 04 VW GTI, its a great 2 seater performance grocery getter. i can zip through traffic and park in places other ppl couldnt. i get about 30mpg city/hwy mix and it has been well worth the initial purchase costs.

for anyone looking to get a good DD and weekend hauler i highly recommend it. i am brand specific, i am a ford lover and have been all my life. however, the 12v cummins is hard to beat! if you can find a dodge with the body still in tact grab it up. i would get one if i couldnt find a ford with a 7.3L

-cutts-
 

theoldwizard1

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My 7.3 IDI has about 256k on it, was owned by a truck shipping service (was maintained well) so I'm thinking it's just now broken in! Seriously though, GREAT truck, but I've been battling salt/rust issues. I plan on a resto and using it like you do, hauling toys and stuff.

Boy do I understand that !

I've got a 14 year old E150 Club Wagon. It was the family bus, now it is the family moving van. I would really like to keep it around because it is so handy for hauling. The problem is, it won't fit in most garages (including mine) so it has sat outside in the MI winters since I bought it new.

In the past couple of years I have had to
  • Replace the windshield because the weather stripping failed and I was afraid of rust starting in the channel.
  • Replace the Class III trailer hitch because it rusted through.
  • Replace left and right front anti-lock wheel speed sensors because of rust
  • Replace both the heater and A/C lines that go to the rear heat and A/C because of rust
  • Replace the exhaust from the cat back because the hangers rusted off (pipes were actually low grade stainless from the factory)

I'm starting to get some rust on the bottom edges of some of the doors and I am trying to decide if I will let it go or have it fixed.
 

38Chevy454

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I agree with the rest that unless your F-150 is not really up to the towing tasks you have, it is cheaper and best to just keep your truck and get a low-cost daily driver. The F-150 will do fine as occasional driver and hauler. A diesel is great for towing and even for driving around - but it is not really less cost. Sitting for a couple months is no problem, just keep the batteries up with a battery tender or put on charger occasionally.

If you want to get a diesel truck, then do it. A early Ford indirect injection (IDI) 6.9 or 7.3 (mid 80's up through mid 94) are pretty cheap and inexpensive to fix compared to newer. The first gen powerstroke 7.3 (mid 94 through when the 6.0 came out) are also very good, but a bit higher repair costs. Cummins are great, harder to find cheap unless the truck is beat to hell. I have an 88 F-250 4x4 with the 7.3 IDI with aftermarket turbo and it is a great engine for a full size pickup. I get about the same mileage as my 97 Expedition winter driver, but diesel fuel is about $1/gal higher cost. Thaty is why the Expy is the driver and the F-250 sits for now.
 

Sh1thead

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Recently sold a 6.0 f450 that i bought from my previous employer who used it to haul a 3 car wedge behind it daily ... in 240k it visited the shop twice but both times the bill reached 2 grand almost immediately. When you factor in insurance, fuel, maintence, and repairs only reasons diesels make sense are the fact that you put them to WORK or you purchased it for dirt cheap. Just my .02 on the subject.
 

DZL JIM

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Can you elaborate on this and tell us why you shouldn't go over 3kmiles on an oil change?

It seems I struck some sort of nerve.
People think that just becasue you have a few more quarts of oil that means you don't need to change it as often.
Like I said I'm a Ford guy so I can't comment on how the Duramax, Cummins and other motors will survive with extended oil changes.
However......I've been in business rebuilding 7.3 Power Stroke injectors for over 7 years. That's what we do, all we do, all day everyday. It's quite clear to us that 3000k mile oil changes will allow the injectors, as well as turbos, oil pumps etc, to live a very, very long life.
Run that out to 5k or 6k miles and you essentially cut the life span in half.
Not my opinion, it's what we've seen over and over, over the past 7 years.
Really good maintenace is key to longevity.
Argue the point if you want, but we kind of know what we're talking about here.
I'm referring to regular dino oils, synthetics can certainly go longer than 3k miles.

Carry on.....
 

GirlnAgarage

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It seems I struck some sort of nerve.
People think that just becasue you have a few more quarts of oil that means you don't need to change it as often.
Like I said I'm a Ford guy so I can't comment on how the Duramax, Cummins and other motors will survive with extended oil changes.
However......I've been in business rebuilding 7.3 Power Stroke injectors for over 7 years. That's what we do, all we do, all day everyday. It's quite clear to us that 3000k mile oil changes will allow the injectors, as well as turbos, oil pumps etc, to live a very, very long life.
Run that out to 5k or 6k miles and you essentially cut the life span in half.
Not my opinion, it's what we've seen over and over, over the past 7 years.
Really good maintenace is key to longevity.
Argue the point if you want, but we kind of know what we're talking about here.
I'm referring to regular dino oils, synthetics can certainly go longer than 3k miles.

Carry on.....



Understood.

My counter offer - an oil analysis from my truck:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0ByvJI1ckq_-COGZiN2NmYmQtNjkzYS00ZmU0LWI1ZjctNGRmNzVhZWFjNzA5
 
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