Town Zoning laws

[M-technik-3]

Town doesn't want to allow me to put a lift in my garage, saying it has the ability of becoming a business at some point. They say no, I plan to redo my existing structure because it's too small and is in poor condition.

Any suggestions on how one should go around this or? Building inspector doesn't really like me seems he has had a few people complain about my toys on my property.

 

[csp]

What does the law actually say?

Does it specifically ban lifts for personal use?

 

[superduty59]

Why would you even ask about putting in a lift? What's inside of your garage is none of anybodys business. Did you ask their permission when you put in an air compressor?

 

[M-technik-3]

Because he has been sniffing around my property recently and with us wanting to build a new structure I have to have everything lined up prior to pulling permits.

He will be inspecting as well. I live beside a road in which all our mucket mucks come down the hill in their Benz and what not. One was so kind to call sheriff saying I was running a chop shop. Showed him my USAF id card and said I wasn't dumb enough to do it in plain sight. He agreed and told the neighbor to bark some where else.

What does the law actually say?

Does it specifically ban lifts for personal use?

That is a good question, I will need to review what they have in writing. I should have asked for the chapter or by-law that was under.

 

[Train]

Definitely find out what the laws are. We started a factory in an old building and the first thing we did after the plan was put together was have the city come and check it all over. They had a list of things that were just asinine. The fire chief pulled me aside and told me to call him the next day before we started anything. Turns out the inspectors were asking for a lot of things 'they' wanted, but weren't actually codes, bylaws or any such thing.

 

[tweidman]

Check with the zoning admistrator and have him/her tell you where in the code it is prohibitted. If it is just an interpetation by the ZA, then you could appeal his decision.

 

[Mike_C]

**** like this is why I read the local zoning laws in the Towns I found houses I was in.

 

[Cryptic1911]

Build the garage to zoning specs, but don't put anything inside. Have the guy come inspect, then he can go **** off after that. Put the lift in afterwords

 

[M-technik-3]

Build the garage to zoning specs, but don't put anything inside. Have the guy come inspect, then he can go **** off after that. Put the lift in afterwords

Would love too but when he asks why the cantilevered ceiling on one side of the garage, what's my excuse? I would like to use the storage section above the garage as well.

25Ft is my max height as well.

 

[klaus]

Tell him straight faced "you want to install a trampoline".

 

[ptschram]

Good luck. I had a special exception canceled and the city sent an inspector out to make sure the equipment used during the exception had been removed.

I was told I could not even store industrial equipment in the building as it was not stuff that would commonly be found in a home.

My special exception I have now is kinda onerous, but I work with it.

 

[GN4WHLN]

Would love too but when he asks why the cantilevered ceiling on one side of the garage, what's my excuse? I would like to use the storage section above the garage as well.

25Ft is my max height as well.

Ask him if it is a code violation. If it's not tell him it's none of his business. If your local code does not prohibit a lift they have nothing to stand on. They can can worry you might do this or that all thay want, but they cannot deny you based on someting that might happen. This sounds like some inspector's personal BS and like he is over stepping his bounds. If it were me and I thought he was out of bounds, I would write a letter addressed to him, his supervisor and the department head stating my complaint reagrding this man's conduct and request a meeting to resolve the issue. I would simply go up the chain until I got what I wanted. I would bet if you held them to the standard of the law, there would be no problem. If he keeps making life difficult for you (with no apparent ground to stand on), make a formal complaint that he is harrassing you. With some of this stuff, you just have to stand your ground.

 

[jrsulo]

Bang the inspectors wife.....then the lift will be the least of his problems with you !!

 

[Falcon67]

Would love too but when he asks why the cantilevered ceiling on one side of the garage, what's my excuse? I would like to use the storage section above the garage as well.

25Ft is my max height as well.

He doesn't have to know anything, only that it is all built to adopted codes. Get the codes, read up, get permits for what's in the code. Add the lift later.

You screwed up by mentioning it in the first place. FIRST RULE of dealing with city or zoning officials - only talk about the minimum required to secure the project. NEVER embellish the end product. You are building a garage, period. You will put stuff in it, like other people. That's all you talk about, just the minimum.

I made the mistake of using the word "hot rod" when asking for my zoning variance. That got the head of the board all fussing about noise. I had to be more blunt than I'd like to shut him down - by asking if he thought noise was an issue with muffled hobby cars what was he going to do about the half dozen Harely's in the area with straight pipes. And the giant FarmAll tractors and diesel farm equipment on the farm that was 500' away from the location.

Once it's up, adding a lift is no big deal. It's a plug in thing, should not even require an electrical permit (if you put a certain plug in the right place before hand). If they come by later and harass you about a lift and there is no specific ordinance or code violation, you have two items on your list: 1) tell 'em to take a walk and 2) put the P&Z meetings and council meetings on your to-do list. Because if you piss them off, they may very well try to legislate your pain. Around here, in small town Texas, that kind of attitude doesn't fly. We had an aggressive code guy for almost a year. Gone now.

 

[ed_v]

Ask him if it is a code violation. If it's not tell him it's none of his business. If your local code does not prohibit a lift they have nothing to stand on. They can can worry you might do this or that all thay want, but they cannot deny you based on someting that might happen. This sounds like some inspector's personal BS and like he is over stepping his bounds. If it were me and I thought he was out of bounds, I would write a letter addressed to him, his supervisor and the department head stating my complaint reagrding this man's conduct and request a meeting to resolve the issue. I would simply go up the chain until I got what I wanted. I would bet if you held them to the standard of the law, there would be no problem. If he keeps making life difficult for you (with no apparent ground to stand on), make a formal complaint that he is harrassing you. With some of this stuff, you just have to stand your ground.

This is the exact way I'd do it to!.

Zoning and HOA are the two bigest jokes. Im so glad to be out of the city. I feel for you man.

Its really none of his business what your intentions are. Even if you were planning on running a business out of it, that's not the inspector's job to deal with. Just do everything to code and you'll be fine. If they ask why the high ceiling, just tell them you like the open feeling. My living area of my townhouse back in Illinois has a two story vaulted ceiling. It's not needed but it sure makes the place feel big and it looks nice.

Ed

 

[ptschram]

MY rental house was cited for being in disrepair.

I brought it up to code and invited the neighborhood association president over to take a look.

He started pointing out things he "wanted" done. I informed him politely that the most anyone could ask for was that I meet minimum building code standards. He surprisingly apologized and told me he'd call the city code Nazis and call them off.

 

[racerbob4]

Ask him if it is a code violation. If it's not tell him it's none of his business. If your local code does not prohibit a lift they have nothing to stand on. They can can worry you might do this or that all thay want, but they cannot deny you based on someting that might happen. This sounds like some inspector's personal BS and like he is over stepping his bounds. If it were me and I thought he was out of bounds, I would write a letter addressed to him, his supervisor and the department head stating my complaint reagrding this man's conduct and request a meeting to resolve the issue. I would simply go up the chain until I got what I wanted. I would bet if you held them to the standard of the law, there would be no problem. If he keeps making life difficult for you (with no apparent ground to stand on), make a formal complaint that he is harrassing you. With some of this stuff, you just have to stand your ground.

Of all the advice you are getting, the above is the best advice. Always be polite and don't raise your voice. We are also going to install a lift and have the 220v power in that area, have the ceiling height, 16"-9" clear and will only put our lift in once we have an occupancy permit.

 

[58Yeoman]

If it comes down to them not letting you put one in, tell them you have a bad back and need the lift to change your tires and oil. Geez...small people with a little bit of power.

 

[M-technik-3]

Reading my towns zoning laws now. They are available on-line in pdf format. See nothing yet that prohibits installing a lift. As a matter of fact I know of numerous lifts in other folks garages. Not that I plan to narc them out.

 

[Dave Maxwell]

When mine is done. I will have one light inside and one outside. Cold storage. After sign off I will install rest of my lights and outlets. Equipment and such.

 

[tcsalvage]

if the code says nothing about not having a lift in a residential garage, by all means put it in, but do it before they change the zoning so it has to be grandfathered in. if you wait and they change the zoning laws (since you brought it to their attention), you will have to get a special exception to the amended law (and your neighbors will be notified of the meeting for their two cents). once you put up a completly new building, you will have to follow the standing zoning laws at that time, but if you expand your existing building there is wiggle room.

 

[Dave Maxwell]

Had to get county approval for my building. Were only letting me build a 1700 s/f building. Have permission for 3024 now. Neighbors all got a notice of court date. I had there approval on a signed petition before I bought home though. Got lucky

 

[larry_g]

Reading my towns zoning laws now. They are available on-line in pdf format. See nothing yet that prohibits installing a lift. As a matter of fact I know of numerous lifts in other folks garages. Not that I plan to narc them out.

Can you post a link to the zoning laws you are reading so that all the junior lawyers here can read and opine?

lg
no neat sig line

 

[airsanford]

Its always better to ask for forgiveness than for permission.


never, ever tell any government stooge anything. Answer their questions, but volunteer no information.

 

[trbomax]

Tell him you need the ceiling hight to install your grow lights. He wont bother you about the lift anymore.

 

[Motofixxer]

Yep I agree, don't say anything more than what's needed. Keep your doors shut and windows covered(great excuse for heat and A/C). What you plug into your building is your business. Look up definitions, ordinances, and facts. Call their bluffs and write complaints about the employees. Discreetly record conversations, and take care of business. Don't be afraid to trespass city employees that refuse to leave and are harassing you.

 

[6768rogues]

Here is what I would do: I would check the local law myself to see if lifts are specifically prohibited. Lifts are no longer professional tools, any car magazine has ads for hobbyist lifts, that fact is easy to document. I would forget about mentioning the lift again and get all my building done, then get a C of O. After that, the inspector does not have a right to inspect your property without a search warrant. I would buy the lift, install it, and tell the inspector to go to hell.

 

[Falcon67]

Yep I agree, don't say anything more than what's needed. Keep your doors shut and windows covered(great excuse for heat and A/C). What you plug into your building is your business. Look up definitions, ordinances, and facts. Call their bluffs and write complaints about the employees. Discreetly record conversations, and take care of business. Don't be afraid to trespass city employees that refuse to leave and are harassing you.

Be careful with anything past only tell them what they need to know. "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer". you have to work with these people until you are done, so tread carefully. Just figure out what the rules are and be informed - chances are you will be more informed than many of them. No need to piss in their ear, but know the ordinance specifics in any area that may cause contention. Unless a full written plan has to be submitted and approved, you don't have to share construction details. Find out what year NEC and UBC you are on and work back from that. If there are no amendments to those, then that's your "min code". The inspector can ask for such and such, but if it's not specific in writing to your local jurisdiction, they should not be able to block it.

Case in point - local inspector comes here from next town over. They have a specific set of amendments over and above UBC for foundation work in that city. Very specific document, lots of detail. You should hear the master sparkies talk about how they chewed up NEC code over there. However, our city is on UBC 2006 - no amendments. City Manager says "we usually do what they do over there." "Well Steve, I don't have to follow that because you haven't adopted their amendments to the basic building code, right?" "I suppose you are right." (yes, I am lol) Note - we are on NEC 2008 and UBC 2006 per a verbal statement from the city manager - but the CM can't come up with the record of adoption by the council. It's a small town, so I take him at his word and run with it. Inspector comes and sure enough asks for 18" footers and 3/8 bar 18" OC, beams every 8'. I explain that we're on UBC 2006 with no amendments and that 12" footers, 24" OC and beams on 13' spacing was my build plan. We negotiate a little, I work on the foundation contractor and we went 18" OC with the bar and kept the rest of the plan.

 

[Falcon67]

> After that, the inspector does not have a right to inspect your property without a
> search warrant. I would buy the lift, install it, and tell the inspector to go to hell.
Read your local ordinances and municipal code - you may find that this is NOT the case and that if they want to come look for code infractions, they have every right to enter the property. Most cities have ordinances that allow them to enter your property and abate nuisance vehicles or take other action as necessary and they may not have to tell you jack **** about it before hand.

From our local code:
"In accordance with Sec. 214.0011 of the Texas Local Government Code, the City may secure a structure without prior notification or City Council determination if the
City Code Enforcement Officer determines that the structure:
(1) is in non-compliance with one or more of the minimum standards listed in Sec. 1-50 of this Article;" etc, etc. A lot of this is boiler place Municipal Code stuff.

Not really advisable to tell the inspector to go to hell because he may well have the city's backing to take you with him on the trip. It is sufficient in this country that if it's not specifically prohibited, it is technically permitted.

 

[Tarheelgarage]

When mine is done. I will have one light inside and one outside. Cold storage. After sign off I will install rest of my lights and outlets. Equipment and such.

That's how you do it.
Don't call it a garage, call it a storeage building. It is then only required to have one light and one receptacle.

After it is signed off, do what you want to on the inside....

 

[Grumpy365]

That's how you do it.
Don't call it a garage, call it a storeage building. It is then only required to have one light and one receptacle.

After it is signed off, do what you want to on the inside....

It's always "an equipment shed" nothing more.

 

[ptschram]

Its always better to ask for forgiveness than for permission.


never, ever tell any government stooge anything. Answer their questions, but volunteer no information.

This can be a very expensive mistake.

Many, many people have had to raze buildings that were found to be non-compliant due to obscuring important information.

As for not entering without search warrants, go read your locality's codes. Many (if not most) have a claim to be able to enter to inspect if there is a threat of public danger.

I've been dealing with zoning issues for small business since 1987 and have learned that the "Authorities" always seem to think they have complete dictatorial authority. Convincing them otherwise is always an expensive and disheartening exercise.

It took threats of federal court action to get Fort Wayne, Indiana off my *** about a less than pretty vehicle I owned.

I made the mistake of hiring "The BEST" real estate attorney and he hung me out to dry. I learned my lesson and fought my own battles since then and have won each and every one since.

If you want to be a wacko (er, Patriotic American) you have to work hard for it. Freedom ain't free.

In this case, The OP would probably be well served by demanding a written refusal of the lift. Once provided with their interpretation of the applicable codes, he could then begin his offense against them with far more information and a much higher likelihood of success.

Yeah, it's BS, but we did move into communities with such inspectors/administrations, or worse yet, voted leaders into power who hired these bureaucrats to administer such rules.

edit-a gentleman I used to work for was building a carport, complete with permits, etc. At one point, a building inspector showed up and issued a stop work order and condemnation order as he felt the span was too great. My friend went to the hearing and let the inspector speak. Asked the inspector for his calculations-the inspector had none. He asked the inspector about his qualifications-the inspector had been a contractor who had gone bankrupt. He asked the inspector about any licenses he had-the inspector had none.

My friend entered into evidence a copy of his professional engineer's license and the load calculations.

His car port is still standing nearly 40 years later.

You can win, but it's a long hard road.

 

[bigdav160]

M-technik-3, please tell us you live outside the US.

I would move before I ever lived under a thumb of .................

 

[hh76]

what bothers me the most is that they want to deny because "it has the ability of becoming a business at some point". What kind of subjective **** is that?

Realistically, wouldn't any tool do the same?

Am I allowed to have this computer in my garage? It might give me the ability to go into buisness as an IT guy?

Or maybe I'll start a buisness as an oil changing shop, because the city allowed me to buy a couple wrenches and rags?

 

[M-technik-3]

Exactly, my state tends to be oppressive, I'd love to move but alas my GF has kids and shares custody with her Ex in this town.

 

[tdkkart]

Exactly, my state tends to be oppressive, I'd love to move but alas my GF has kids and shares custody with her Ex in this town.

Your garage/lift/city problems are the least of your worries..........

 

[nso123]

Threads like this remind me why I like living out in the country. We only have to pass an electrical and septic inspection to build.

 

[M-technik-3]

Your garage/lift/city problems are the least of your worries..........

Nah, I have my own kids and her issues are not that bad. Mass has always been a communist state.

 

[Cheap5.0]

Nah, I have my own kids and her issues are not that bad. Mass has always been a communist state.

Proiblem found.

Good luck man, terrible thing they are doing to you (being armed services and all) or let alone any property owner.

 

[M-technik-3]

Thanks, love my job still. Not to many folks get to fly out to Hawaii one week and next head the other way to Europe.