installing transfer switch

[Kapt]

I'm installing a 6 circuit manual transfer switch for back up power from my generator.

The instructions say: "If a selected circuit is part of a multi-wire branch circuit,
insure the other branch circuit that shares the neutral is also
connected to the transfer switch. The two circuits must be
connected to opposing legs (phases) of the generator power
and a handle tie must be installed on the switch handles so
that both legs are transferred at the same time."

The multi wire branch circuit in my case controls the refrigerator and the other one the garbage disposal. I only want to power the refrigerator. Cant I just hook up the refrigerator to my transfer switch without worrying about overloading the shared nuetral? I think the NEC calls for any multi-wire circuit to be connected to a double pole breaker, but mine are connected to two single poles on opposing phases.

 

[matt151617]

I wouldn't worry about it. You probably won't be using the garbage disposal while running off the generator so it's not an issue.

 

[rlitman]

If it's the transfer switch I'm thinking of, they give you one dual-pole breaker in the center for just this issue.
Your current install with two breakers is already a code violation.

 

[CamarosRus]

Just bought home in South King County, WA state with this in garage ???

What was it worth new and now ??

Need a good price to have transfer switch installed

Currently you have to hook umbilical chord from generator to plug installed in wall, after turning off main incoming breaker. IS that all that bad ???

 

[427425JJM]

Chuck, what forum are you NOT on? Jeff M (NJ) By the way, check out electricgeneratorsdirect.com, they are great. I bought my 7500w Generac 4 months ago but have been waiting (like the rest of the US) for Reliance to catch up on the frenzey purchases of transfer switches. I've ordered a 10 circuit manual transfer switch from them.

jeff

 

[Kapt]

Your current install with two breakers is already a code violation.

I think the code changed on this in 2008 and my house was built way before this so I think I'm OK.

I wasn't too clear in my original post, but I don't want to hook up the garbage disposal to my transfer switch. I just want to hook up one side of the mult-wire circuit (refrigerator) without hooking up the other side. I can't see how this would be a problem. If I were to hook up both sides of the circuit (refrig and GD) to the same phase of my transfer switch (transfer switch is 120/240), I could see how this would overload the nuetral.

 

[PRH44]

It is not a neutral overload you need to be concerned about. it is a posssible back feed on the neutral from two different scources. What transfer switch do you have? Can you give us the catalog number?

 

[Highbeam]

Just bought home in South King County, WA state with this in garage ???

What was it worth new and now ??

Need a good price to have transfer switch installed

Currently you have to hook umbilical chord from generator to plug installed in wall, after turning off main incoming breaker. IS that all that bad ???

Oooh, It's only worth 100$ but I'll giver you 200$ and be up in 10 minutes to pick it up.

 

[pattenp]

I guess you would for $200. There's one on Craigslist for $3800 and it doesn't look as clean as CamarosRus'. The guy selling it says it was $8000 new.

Oooh, It's only worth 100$ but I'll giver you 200$ and be up in 10 minutes to pick it up.

 

[Kapt]

It is not a neutral overload you need to be concerned about. it is a posssible back feed on the neutral from two different scources. What transfer switch do you have? Can you give us the catalog number?

It's a Reliance 30216A 6 circuit manual transfer switch.

 

[PRH44]

It's a Reliance 30216A 6 circuit manual transfer switch.

Your generator transfer switch is configured as a solid neutral connection. This means the neutral is unbroken within the switch during transfer from line to gen power.
with this type of neutral connection your genenertor is not considered a seperatly derived system. Regrounding of the neutral connection at the generator is not required. The neutral and ground connection as shown in the manual is all that is needed.
Therefore you could pysically connect one circuit of a multiwire branch circuit to the transfer switch, but it would be in violation of article 210.4
Nice setup by the way. Bigger always seems better however they do consume fuel quickly, just remember to have plenty of fuel on hand.

 

[CamarosRus]

Can I please get Brand, Part # On line vendor for best value manual transfer swith that will handle all the circuits on my 200 amp load panel.

FYI, My home is one above with 12KW Honda diesel generator and illegal plug install in the wall.............allowing generator to be plugged into breaker panel w/o legit xfer switch

Thanks

 

[aandpdan]

Can I please get Brand, Part # On line vendor for best value manual transfer swith that will handle all the circuits on my 200 amp load panel.

FYI, My home is one above with 12KW Honda diesel generator and illegal plug install in the wall.............allowing generator to be plugged into breaker panel w/o legit xfer switch

Thanks

What brand main panel do you have? You may be able to get an interlock for the panel. Then you can run any circuit safely.

 

[countryraised]

Here if you dont' have a switch we just pull out the meter when running the gen, no chance at backfeeding the main lines then.

 

[Norcal]

Here if you dont' have a switch we just pull out the meter when running the gen, no chance at backfeeding the main lines then.

Still not legal, & most PoCo's do not like people tampering with their cash register......

 

[Aceman]

Here if you dont' have a switch we just pull out the meter when running the gen, no chance at backfeeding the main lines then.

I would not recommend this at all. There are a lot of old meterbases out there, it's not uncommon for the bakelite/fiberglass standoffs to break that hold the meter lugs in place. This can cause the hot service wires to spring up and touch the can. BOOM!

 

[PRH44]

Agreed Aceman

 

[ishiboo]

Your generator transfer switch is configured as a solid neutral connection. This means the neutral is unbroken within the switch during transfer from line to gen power.
with this type of neutral connection your genenertor is not considered a seperatly derived system. Regrounding of the neutral connection at the generator is not required. The neutral and ground connection as shown in the manual is all that is needed.
Therefore you can connect one circuit of a multiwire branch circuit to the transfer switch if you so desire. .

I guess in practice if you remember everything this is okay, but it's prohibited by the NEC.

Given a situation like exercising the generator, you could have main power available and transfer the load of the transfer switch MWBC half to generator power. Depending on luck of the draw, the generator may be on close to the same phase as the mains, which means you could overload the neutral just as if you had put both legs of the MWBC on the same phase by accident with a tandem or single pole breakers.

 

[PRH44]

I guess in practice if you remember everything this is okay, but it's prohibited by the NEC.

Given a situation like exercising the generator, you could have main power available and transfer the load of the transfer switch MWBC half to generator power. Depending on luck of the draw, the generator may be on close to the same phase as the mains, which means you could overload the neutral just as if you had put both legs of the MWBC on the same phase by accident with a tandem or single pole breakers.

I do not believe this is prohibited by code. Could you site the article that prohibits this?

However you raise a very interesting point ishiboo. Should the generator be a different pitch or in phase with the other half of the MWBC. I believe This could result in an overload of the shared neutral, should both scources be used simultaneously.

 

[ishiboo]

I do not believe this is prohibited by code. Could you site the article that prohibits this?

However you raise a very interesting point ishiboo. Should the generator be a different pitch or in phase with the other half of the MWBC. I believe This could result in an overload of the shared neutral, should both scources be used simultaneously.

Have each leg of a MWBC fed from two different sources? Really? I just guessed at the fact it would most certainly be not allowed

210.4 Multiwire Branch Circuits.
(A) General. Branch circuits recognized by this article shall
be permitted as multiwire circuits. A multiwire circuit shall be
permitted to be considered as multiple circuits. All conductors
of a multiwire branch circuit shall originate from the same
panelboard or similar distribution equipment.

This fails because one hot will originate from the house load center, and another from the "transfer switch" load center.

(B) Disconnecting Means. Each multiwire branch circuit
shall be provided with a means that will simultaneously
disconnect all ungrounded conductors at the point where
the branch circuit originates.

Two handles = this fails

I think there also may be something which requires the neutral tie to be larger than the 14ga or 12ga wire you would extend, but I'm not sure.

 

[PRH44]

Under normal conditions they would originate from the same source with a handle tie meeting said articles. But when the generator is running and the transfer switch toggle is in generator position that could be considered non compliant with the above articles. I would I agree ishiboo. I got to caught up in the fact the generator had solid neutral. 210.4 would reguire both legs to be moved. WOW brain fart, I will edit my previous post

As far as the neutral size is concerned it would need to be sized according to the KVA of the generator. The manual shows a prewired pigtail and does not state the size of the neutral connected to the transfer switch.

Thank you