Looking for ideas/advice on addition for the house

[Cheap5.0]

This is a rough & not to scale drawing of my property lines/major obstacles on my property.

A few pieces of info:

-The distance between the house and old garage is 14 feet.
-The garage is built on a slab w/24" rat wall
-The old oak/septic field cant be moved due to cost
-The driveway cant be moved due to my wifes fondness of those trees
-The house/old garage are both 30'x30'/single story
-The peak of the house roof runs north/south (my property runs east/west)

I know that without knowing local codes no one can tell me what will work. But id like to hear if anyone has an idea i have not come up with.

My plan currently is to knock down the old garage, and build an addition post frame style. If i go that route, im looking at about $25-30/ft roughed in. Cost is a major factor, but so is getting it done since im short two bedrooms (my first born will be here this spring, and my wifes grandma lives with us).

Any ideas would be helpful!

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

Is there a question in there?

 

[atotalnincompoop]

Is there a question in there?

i'm lost too, what do you want to know?

 

[Cheap5.0]

But id like to hear if anyone has an idea i have not come up with.

That ^^^

Maybe there is only one idea, and thats the original one i posted above? Add on when i tear down the old garage.

I wonder if its possible to somehow retrofit the "old garage" and somehow turn it into a living space?

 

[atotalnincompoop]

i'm assuming the garage is built on a concrete slab, is the house the same or does it have a basement, posts?

 

[Cheap5.0]

i'm assuming the garage is built on a concrete slab, is the house the same or does it have a basement, posts?

The house has a basement. The garage is on a slab w/24" rat walls.

I looked into selling this and moving into something larger, and when we were looking at propetys i seen a house that retrofitted the garage into a big rec room. They had carpet over cement, which made the floor very cold...but the idea is worth looking into if i could build a sub floor and insulate that.

That would double the sq footage of my house....

 

[bigbubba]

This is a rough & not to scale drawing of my property lines/major obstacles on my property.

A few pieces of info:

-The distance between the house and old garage is 14 feet.
-The garage is built on a slab w/24" rat wall
-The old oak/septic field cant be moved due to cost
-The driveway cant be moved due to my wifes fondness of those trees
-The house/old garage are both 30'x30'/single story
-The peak of the house roof runs north/south (my property runs east/west)



Any ideas would be helpful!

Can you just build out and basicly attach your garage to the house?That would give you 2 13X14.5 or so bedrooms.Or one bigger bedroom and a hall to get to the garage that can then be converted to more living space.

Also have you checked into adding a second story?

 

[Cheap5.0]

Can you just build out and basicly attach your garage to the house?That would give you 2 13X14.5 or so bedrooms.Or one bigger bedroom and a hall to get to the garage that can then be converted to more living space.

Also have you checked into adding a second story?

I dont know why, but it just occured to me since making this thread that i may be able to convert/retro my garage and the space in between into living space...im working on finding out what i would need to make it work.

My house sits on 18" of cinderblock, then the floor appears to be about 6" above that. While my garage is obviously just built on the slab, so the height difference in the floors/ceilings would be about 24".

Would it be possible to remove the trusses, add 24" of side walls around the perimeter of the "old garage" then put the trusses back onto that and build a 24" high sub floor to make the two buildings have flooring/ceilings at the same height?

Seconds story? Yes, i looked into it. I had a few quotes from builders for around $100/ft. It would be the same cost as building from a new basement foundation.

 

[Zeke]

Nothing wrong with a split level house. You just need to come up with a way to connect the buildings. There is not enough there for me to start designing. Roof lines and heights have to be shown. What I would do is put a new bath in the connection because that would be easier than cutting the floor in the garage.

AFA cold floors, there is a lot you can do with floor heating and a new wood surface. Or even less than that. Carpet over concrete might be OK for closets and such.

 

[Cheap5.0]

Nothing wrong with a split level house. You just need to come up with a way to connect the buildings. There is not enough there for me to start designing. Roof lines and heights have to be shown. What I would do is put a new bath in the connection because that would be easier than cutting the floor in the garage.

AFA cold floors, there is a lot you can do with floor heating and a new wood surface. Or even less than that. Carpet over concrete might be OK for closets and such.

I figured connecting the buildings would not be a problem. Maybe im wrong?

It would be a matter of trenching between the two buildings and doing a standard foundation for the 14' width on both sides. Then build that structure at the same time we renovate the garage, and like you said do a split level with stairs.

If i spend some time in sketch up tonight drawing to scale and getting roof height/pitch in there ill throw that up here to help.

 

[atotalnincompoop]

if the house is below the frost line, which it is as you have a basement, and the garage is sitting on a slab-on-grade, you will have nothing but problems, in fact your local building office probably won't even approve a building permit with this setup.

 

[Cheap5.0]

if the house is below the frost line, which it is as you have a basement, and the garage is sitting on a slab-on-grade, you will have nothing but problems, in fact your local building office probably won't even approve a building permit with this setup.

Im pretty sure they wont as well...but its something ill still consider.

The garage does have a 24" footing, which is below frost line for most winters and it was built over 30 years ago. Im not giving up hope on this one yet, ill still keep looking into it.

 

[bazzateer]

I'd connect the two and remodel the old garage into living space. Then use the money you save on a full build to upgrade your pole barn into a great car space.

 

[atotalnincompoop]

The garage does have a 24" footing, which is below frost line for most winters and it was built over 30 years ago.

24" is not below ther frost line, a minimum of 48" is usually what is needed and spec'd by architects and engineers to be below the frost line.
your in michigan, i'm in ontario, pretty much the same climate, more or less.

 

[Cheap5.0]

I'd connect the two and remodel the old garage into living space. Then use the money you save on a full build to upgrade your pole barn into a great car space.

Thats what im thinking if i can swing it...I doubt its something code allows, but to be honest now that ive talked to a few people and thought about it...its common around here.

24" is not below ther frost line, a minimum of 48" is usually what is needed and spec'd by architects and engineers to be below the frost line.
your in michigan, i'm in ontario, pretty much the same climate, more or less.

I understand what your saying. Yes by code the frost line is 48", in reality i know it rarely goes over 20". This winter (You know, I know this is not a typical winter) the frost is only 4-6".

All im saying is the garage has a 24" rat wall. Its 30+ years old and heaving has not been a problem.

My neighbor built/renovated his garage into a 24/7/365 living space (and he rents out his house attached to the garage). He has a 24" rat wall as well, going on 20 years he told me.

 

[64dragnwagon]

Without a floor plan of the house it is difficult to help. Does the floor plan lay out where you could go north with an addition? It looks like you have room to the north and it would be much simpler and cheaper to continue the gable roof that way. Plus you DON'T HAVE TO GIVE UP YOUR GARAGE or deal with connecting the two and the difference in floor elevation.

 

[64dragnwagon]

If your layout is somewhat accurate the oak tree doesn't look like it would be in the way. If it is too close to the addition the same 30' depth of your huose you could have an offset on the back and make the addition less than 30' deep. Hard to picture with my explanation but I am no good at any sketch programs.

 

[Cheap5.0]

If your layout is somewhat accurate the oak tree doesn't look like it would be in the way. If it is too close to the addition the same 30' depth of your huose you could have an offset on the back and make the addition less than 30' deep. Hard to picture with my explanation but I am no good at any sketch programs.

I could probably get a variance to build that way, but then id be building directly under the oaks canopy, and we already have to deal with the problem of all the leaves/branches falling off. Plus id be that much closer to my neighbors (renters), which right now isn't bad...but who knows down the road.

I forgot to mention, the garage is being replaced by the bigger pole barn on the back of my property anyways...so im not losing the garage per se.

Also the floor plan doesn't really lend itself to adding on that way. The north side of the house has two bedrooms and the only bath, so we would have to eliminate one of those.

 

[joes169]

I'll be honest and tell you I don't know MI residential building codes, but I can tell you that is very clear here in WI that you CAN NOT directly connect a frost protected structure (house in your case) with a non-frost protected structure (the existing garage in your case). I could copy the actual code here, although it probably wouldn't help you there. The reasoning, though, is the same there as it is here, frost has the ability to move the garage slab while the house remains stable. I've installed hundreds of foundations for additions, and I've only been involved in one that involved this scenario, and the only reason they didn't tear down the garage and start with frost footings on the new garage was because it would have needed to be located several additional feet from the property line. In hindsight though it would have likely been cheaper to tear the garage down & start from scratch.

 

[atotalnincompoop]

I'll be honest and tell you I don't know MI residential building codes, but I can tell you that is very clear here in WI that you CAN NOT directly connect a frost protected structure (house in your case) with a non-frost protected structure (the existing garage in your case). I could copy the actual code here, although it probably wouldn't help you there. The reasoning, though, is the same there as it is here, frost has the ability to move the garage slab while the house remains stable. I've installed hundreds of foundations for additions, and I've only been involved in one that involved this scenario, and the only reason they didn't tear down the garage and start with frost footings on the new garage was because it would have needed to be located several additional feet from the property line. In hindsight though it would have likely been cheaper to tear the garage down & start from scratch.

 

[truckman5000]

I'd connect the two and remodel the old garage into living space. Then use the money you save on a full build to upgrade your pole barn into a great car space.

This makes sence to me.
Also, just get a permit for the "addition" between the two bld.
After final inspection, a simple one or two stairs down to the garadge hight.
Level the floor with 2x4s pt. and insulate with ridged board insulation between the 2x4s.
Nail set the 2x4s on the flat and subfloor over them.
Dig around the "rat" wall about 2-3 feet and secure the same ridged boad insulation to the frost wall, outside. Giving some sort of thermal break.
No inspection for the latter, but would be fine.

 

[joe6749]

can you build up? adding a second story to your curent foundation would be the most cost effective. i see this done all the time around me.

 

[Cheap5.0]

This makes sence to me.
Also, just get a permit for the "addition" between the two bld.
After final inspection, a simple one or two stairs down to the garadge hight.
Level the floor with 2x4s pt. and insulate with ridged board insulation between the 2x4s.
Nail set the 2x4s on the flat and subfloor over them.
Dig around the "rat" wall about 2-3 feet and secure the same ridged boad insulation to the frost wall, outside. Giving some sort of thermal break.
No inspection for the latter, but would be fine.

Im still tossing this idea around, but at the same time i know i can (following code) tear down the garage and use the pad to build a post frame addition on.

Aside from the possible frost heaving problems mentioned on the last page, future "resell-ability" is a concern if i retrofit the garage.

can you build up? adding a second story to your curent foundation would be the most cost effective. i see this done all the time around me.

I priced it out, it was dollar for dollar as expensive as getting a basement dug and adding on where the garage is. Plus i would have a week or two of the inconvenience of the roof removal/rebuild.


Its been a week or so since i made this thread, and im still at square one...post frame addition seems to be the most cost affective solution.

I could probably do the whole thing my self in that case, but in all honesty that would assume i run into zero snags/problems and that i could find some day labor willing to work under someone with only one structures experience.

I plan on hiring out the shell to a reputable guy i talked too, then finishing the inside as i get time/money.

 

[camarotoolman]

You don't have to attach the addition to the garage. build it very close to but not hooked to it. Sort of like an exspansion joint in a big building or bridge etc.

 

[camarotoolman]

You don't have to attach the addition to the garage. build it very close to but not hooked to it. Sort of like an exspansion joint in a big building or bridge etc.

 

[Cheap5.0]

You don't have to attach the addition to the garage. build it very close to but not hooked to it. Sort of like an exspansion joint in a big building or bridge etc.

I understand that part, but if im going to add on 14 ft (the distance between the house & garage) i might as well add on 25 ft. The cost diff. is worth it for the extra space we will have.

Thanks for clarifying that though.