Drill Press or Radial Drill Press or Milling Machine?

[Neura]

So I am working on more projects lately (the latest is building a shop press). and have discovered I have a need for a drill press. I started looking for used ones, but I have only found a Sharp one and a wesco both are older units prob from the 70's or 80's. I think I want a floor model as that is what I have used previously but I am really unsure of the pros and cons between a bench top model and the floor models aside from space, and of course how tall of a peice you can drill. What about motor HP? does it matter? and now of course there is a Radial Drill Press on the market, so advantages or disadvantages to that?

I had really thought I wanted to get a milling machine as then I could use it as a press, but the cost of them I dont think I can justify to the wife. I had thought of the cheap ones from China that Princess Auto and HF carry or used to carry but not sure how good they actually are for the money. I dont want something that everytime I want to use it I need to fix it first.

I am drilling mostly steel and not wood with this so I am thinking that a 1/3hp or a 1/2HP may be fine but I know I will have the need to drill at least 2" Holes in 1" plating or 12"x1/2" c channel" and also drilling through up to 2" round stock and maybe some chrome moly. So based on this information what would some opionions be on presses?? how are the cheap ones from places like Busybee Tools (Craftx) etc vs some of the older units like Wesco, Sharp or General? and what type of motor size would be good for doing what I want to do or should I just step up to the milling machine?

 

[jkruger54]

Buy a MILL.

 

[larry_g]

1" plate, 2" hole, 1/2hp... Does not compute. Your talking some serious work here. A 2" cutter will cost as much as some of the presses your looking at. With 1" plate your looking at probably a radial machine as your now having to pay attention to the capacity of the table. I would suggest that you maybe drop by a local fab shop and see what they use to do the type of work your talking about.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Outlawmws]

2" in 1" thick... for a press???

Where are you needing 1" thick on a press? I built one of the heaviest presses I've seen around, and I think the thickest part is maybe 3/8?

Structural steel not solid steel...

In a reasonable thickness, You can use a metal cutting hole saw, but while 1" thick is possible, its going to be difficult. I've done pretty thick (I think 3/4" in steel, more in aluminum) and had to saw from one side about 1/2 way, and then flipped the part over and done the other half from the other side. (The problem being, with a hole saw, the deeper you go, the harder it is to expel the shavings from the saw blade)

To your original question. while a radial drill has it's good points, rigidity is not generally one of them and they also take a lot of space...

Stick with a good standard DP. and if you expect to be doing a lot of large holes and heavy cutting, you will want a minimum of a 1/2 horse, 3/4 or more even better...

 

[larry_g]

2" in 1" thick... for a press???

while a radial drill has it's good points, rigidity is not generally one of them and they also take a lot of space...

Stick with a good standard DP. and if you expect to be doing a lot of large holes and heavy cutting, you will want a minimum of a 1/2 horse, 3/4 or more even better...

I disagree. A radial has plenty of rigidity. You just have to get the correct one,

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94938&highlight=press

lg
no neat sig line

 

[91bronc300]

2" holes in 1" plate? Much easier to torch a hole like that than drill one.

 

[theoldwizard1]

2" holes in 1" plate? Much easier to torch a hole like that than drill one.

Mark circle on material. Drill a lot of small holes close to each other with the outer edge just touching the line and very little spacing between holes. 2" carbide hole saw, slow speed, cutting oil.

Don't expect to get more than a couple of holes out of that saw.

 

[kartracer55]

Deep hole drilling isn't really a problem for a drill press it doesnt make any difference. It is the Diameter of the hole that is an issue.

Drilling a 2" diameter hole in a 1" thick steel place is going to be quite the task for a drill press. You can use a holesaw, but it will probably kill the hole saw in very short order and it won't be very accurate.

Now, if you had a mill, you have more options. End mill & rotary table then finish bore with a boring head? But that is quite a bit of money for a 2" hole. Maybe see if you can rent a mag drill?

 

[Outlawmws]

I disagree. A radial has plenty of rigidity. You just have to get the correct one,

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94938&highlight=press

lg
no neat sig line

"rigidity is not generally one of them"

That one is by far the exception to what i said. Most radial drills are designed for woodworking, and are NOT very rigid. I stand by what I said.

 

[A_Pmech]

The two most common ways to make that hole are drilling and boring. To push a 2" twist drill you'll require a radial drill or a heavy drilling machine like a Cincinnati Super Service. Alternatively, you can drill a 3/4 hole and enlarge it with a boring head in a milling machine.

The production rate you need to achieve, as well as the tolerance you must hold will dictate which method is more appropriate.

A radial drill runing a twist drill will make a 2" hole in 1" of mild steel in about a minute.

 

[Steve from Socal]

"rigidity is not generally one of them"

That one is by far the exception to what i said. Most radial drills are designed for woodworking, and are NOT very rigid. I stand by what I said.

HUH,

Radial drills ARE made just to poke BIG holes in metal fast. John's drill is the baby of the family, my 15 inch column is a modest size. I think mine is rated to drill 3 inches in steel, to do that it has 15HP and a few tons of dead weight on the arm.

Steve

 

[Outlawmws]

The two most common ways to make that hole are drilling and boring. To push a 2" twist drill you'll require a radial drill or a heavy drilling machine like a Cincinnati Super Service. Alternatively, you can drill a 3/4 hole and enlarge it with a boring head in a milling machine.

The production rate you need to achieve, as well as the tolerance you must hold will dictate which method is more appropriate.

A radial drill runing a twist drill will make a 2" hole in 1" of mild steel in about a minute.

I'm not sure if we are meaning the same thing when we say "radial drill"

By my definition/understanding all a radial drill has that is significantly different from a regular DP is an extended reach. the average radial drill looks like this: (Not A_Pmech's Radial)

all a 2" hole needs is a slow enough speed and enough HP for the right cutter... (and a lot more rigidity than the example I put up...)

 

[Outlawmws]

HUH,

Radial drills ARE made just to poke BIG holes in metal fast. John's drill is the baby of the family, my 15 inch column is a modest size. I think mine is rated to drill 3 inches in steel, to do that it has 15HP and a few tons of dead weight on the arm.

Steve

SOME radial drills maybe. In heavy industry. I've been around awhile, and can state Ive NEVER seen one in a home shop or even the machine shops in my local industry the size of A_PMechs. Do they exist? Yes in areas where there is or was heavy industry.

 

[Steve from Socal]

That is a toy, something small tool companies came up with. Again, this is a modest size radial drill, a really big one would be shipped in pieces.

Steve

 

[Outlawmws]

That is a toy, something small tool companies came up with. Again, this is a modest size radial drill, a really big one would be shipped in pieces.

Steve

I quite agree, it is a toy, which is why I said it was not rigid enough. But the monsters you are talking about are also not a common drill (maybe in heavy industry) and there is no way an average home shop is going to go that route; even the "small" one A_PMech has is not common, so recommending the OP go buy one for his project and a couple of holes is to me pretty silly.

 

[Steve from Socal]

The one on the trailer was about 700 bucks, if he has the room and power, why not?

Steve

 

[Outlawmws]

The one on the trailer was about 700 bucks, if he has the room and power, why not?

Steve

Sure, $700 to buy, (as scrap) at least $2000 to PU, deliver and set, and Oh, lets not forget maybe $10K to have PG&E bring in 3 Phase power and 440 V or more (since the average garage is lucky to have a 200 amp single phase panel nearby..)...

Just your average garage....

 

[Steve from Socal]

Anybody who is drilling 2 inch holes in one inch plate is NOT doing average "garage" work. There are people here with "garages" bigger than the entire lot my house is on, while it may seem excessive to most, for them it is the norm. Honestly; if somebody wants to play with big machines they are FAR less expensive than the little ones for the precise reason you mention, moving and power are challenging but, not out of the question.

Steve

 

[jeff112]

Neura.If I were you and needed to machine a hole in 1",2" 3" plate,pick up a used bridgeport milling machine,get a fly cutter and be done! simple and cheap. pick up a drill chuck and collet,and drill all the 1" and smaller holes you need.

 

[trboxman]

I'm thinking the OP didn't quite realize just what drilling a 2" hole in 1" plate really entails...more than he is someone who'd routinely be doing that kind of work...

 

[Outlawmws]

I'm thinking the OP didn't quite realize just what drilling a 2" hole in 1" plate really entails...more than he is someone who'd routinely be doing that kind of work...

I agree, and I think before this thread derails any further, a few people need to re-read the first post, do a little deductive logic and

 

[Jim Johnstone]

Maybe it's just the circles people travel in, but when I hear "radial arm drill" I picture exactly what AP Mech has. I've never actually seen one of those cheap radial woodworking drills.

Regardless, as tons of people have said, 1/2hp is not going to bore a 2" hole in plate steel. Not in one shot anyway. MAYBE you could do it by stepping up sizes over and over again, but by the time you buy the drill bits to keep stepping up, you could just pay a machine shop to do it. Most machine shops I've been in have radials.

 

[Rogue1987]

Now that I know what a Radial Arm Drill is I want one. Damn you garage journal.

 

[Kenwc]

I would offer this machine as an alternative to the upper and lower extreme already shown. This is not mine but it's on my quest list.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

I would offer this machine as an alternative to the upper and lower extreme already shown. This is not mine but it's on my quest list.

Do you know the horsepower?

 

[Steve from Socal]

One aspect of a radial drill for drilling big holes in steel is, the ability to exert a good deal of pressure on the drill bit. A hand feed drill without significant compounding would not do well with bit over 3/4 inch or so.

Steve

 

[Kenwc]

Jim.....No I don't but I would not run less than a 1hp on that particular machine.

Anyone who finds one of these should probably expect to have to restore it but they are beautiful machines when restored.

I've found them anywhere from $100 to $2000 used. There's one sitting in Edgewater Florida right now that just needs to be restored and the guy only wants $100. I was all over it but getting to Texas was not likely.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

One aspect of a radial drill for drilling big holes in steel is, the ability to exert a good deal of pressure on the drill bit. A hand feed drill without significant compounding would not do well with bit over 3/4 inch or so.

Steve

That reminds me of my old boss, a little german toolmaker that owned the shop. I heard from one of my co-workers that was trying to drill some die steel that was harder than we were used to working on. He asked the boss to order some new drills since it wasn't cutting well. The old german guy walked over to the radial drill, starting just hammering on the downfeed handles. My co-worker said the drill bit was bowing out, chattering, the whole machine shaking, and the little german guy shouting over the noise "what are you talking about!?!?!? It's cutting like buttahhhhhhh!!!!!"

 

[Keep]

I am betting the 2 inch hole in 1 inch plate is for the pressing plates, not for the press itself. I have been thinking of making my own plates as well as the price some folks are asking for a 1 inch plate with a 2 inch hole is outrageous.

 

[Neura]

the 2" hole in 1" plate is for the press that I am building. There is a few other thing where it is required on some of the trailers and deck trucks we use for hauling stuff up and down the road (alberta and shipping heavey mining equipment). I do some fab work for the guys hauling stuff and sometimes there is need for this sort of thing. But after doing much research and looking for new and used equipment I decided that the home garage/shop is too small for that size of drill and swung a deal today with the machine shop to do the bigger drilling for a reasonable price. (2 cases of beer). I did purchase a 3/4 hp 17" 16 speed delta drill press today though to do most of the stuff I need here. I did have a chance to purchase an old General Radial DP for $100 but it needed work as it was in a fire, mostly a really good cleaning but it has also sat outside for a few years. Still thinking about it, but that requires convincing the boss that we need to move to an acerage so I can build a bigger shop.

I do have access to a lathe when required, but not sure for how long as it is currently forsale and is an hour drive from me. the gentleman that I purchased the DP from buys and refurbishes equipment all day long mostly mills, lathes, dp etc and he has a really nice old mill in his shop and offered to drill the holes for a very modest price as well.

He also mentioned to purchase and adapter and end mill bits and not cheap ones for doing the larger stuff and just take your time and using cutting oil and it will do what you want, let the machine do the work and dont force it. He actually demo'd a 1 1/4" hole for me in 3/4" plate on this DP when I went too look at it. So since I am not in a rush with a lot of this stuff I can take time doing it and when it is done it is done. and the stuff I dont want to wait around a long time for I will farm out to the machine shop.

 

[vintagefan]

I've popped 1-1/4" holes in 1" plate all day long with a deming drill mounted into a Bridgeport running in low gear at about 400rpm. I don't think you could go much over 1-1/2 with a Bridgeport, but you could easily pop a 1" hole and then finish it out with an adjustable boring head.

If we were to do that at my work (on a manual machine instead of a CNC), that's how it would be done.

 

[2oolhound]

I would offer this machine as an alternative to the upper and lower extreme already shown. This is not mine but it's on my quest list.

Ok, what is the brand? It looks like it's brand new, are they still being built?

 

[vintagefan]

Ok, what is the brand? It looks like it's brand new, are they still being built?

I'm curious too, it's a really neat machine. It's like a semi-benchtop midsize Bridgeport.

 

[Zebu Fellenz]

I would NOT recommend that machine in any way, shape, or form for the work the OP wants to do.

We have that same machine in our shop, it's excellent for drilling holes in odd locations as you can pretty well spin & twist the head wherever you need it but it's definitely not suited for 2" holes in 1" thick plate.

It doesn't go slow enough, doesn't have enough power, and lack the rigidity to do a good job.

For drilling holes that size you either need a larger (+2 hp ideally) gear head drill press with back gears and a low speed of <100RPM, power feed is also helpful!

We have a Buffalo Forge #22 for larger holes and I wouldn't recommend anything smaller. See the link below for pictures (not of my machine, but same model).

http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=3479

 

[Kenwc]

Ok, what is the brand? It looks like it's brand new, are they still being built?

That particular machine is a Rockwell. Delta still sells this machine but it's about $6,000 new.

Most that I've seen in shops are ar the Rockwell or Walker Turner models that have been restored. Scroll through this link and you'll see one that went from solid rust to a beauty: (it's on the first page)

http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=54231&p=374757&hilit=Best+before+and+after#p374757

 

[junk4dummies]

I'm not sure if we are meaning the same thing when we say "radial drill"

By my definition/understanding all a radial drill has that is significantly different from a regular DP is an extended reach. the average radial drill looks like this: (Not A_Pmech's Radial)

all a 2" hole needs is a slow enough speed and enough HP for the right cutter... (and a lot more rigidity than the example I put up...)

This one is for wood only. You can drill small wholes in steel but it is not very stable. This one is good for driling whole around a chair seat so you can cane them. I have a floor model that I ue for woodworking. Not good for 99 percent of the small home shop jobs. Just a tool for light special needs.

 

[junk4dummies]

Maybe it's just the circles people travel in, but when I hear "radial arm drill" I picture exactly what AP Mech has. I've never actually seen one of those cheap radial woodworking drills.

Regardless, as tons of people have said, 1/2hp is not going to bore a 2" hole in plate steel. Not in one shot anyway. MAYBE you could do it by stepping up sizes over and over again, but by the time you buy the drill bits to keep stepping up, you could just pay a machine shop to do it. Most machine shops I've been in have radials.

The largest HP motor you can run on 110V is a 2 HP mrtor.
A 2 inch whole in steel is a huge whole. I am not sure how large your part is but if it is not to large I would go with a milling machine with a rotery table. You can mill that size whole as long as you pieces are not huge. If you have large plate steel you will need a boring machine with are rotating table.
It would be cheaper to sub contract it out to a large machine shop.

It has been sugested that you sue a cutting torch. You can do that and clean the whole with a file and get it to look very nice.

Good tooling will cost more than a large drill press. You will need a heavy duty 17 inch drill press or larger. I am not sure a drill press will drill the whole. Unless you use a carbide whole saw a bit that size will not chuck up. You can take the drill chuck off and use taper drills. I have never see a 2 inch drill. Whole saws yes but not a drill. A drill press is really not the way to go and if you are thinking about a bench drill press I can tell that you have no clue about machining.
What are you making? We would love to know. Sorry but you are in way over your head form what I can tell.

 

[bts]

2" hole in 1" plate, using a holesaw and a drill press, not a problem.

I did exactly that so I could mount the first ram I used when I built my press.

100 rpm, spray bottle with a bit of coolent from the lathe and a cleanout of the debri with the air gun every minute or two and in about 10 minutes per hole your done..

One down side with using this method is accuracy.
I used a 1 3/4" holesaw to end up with an 1 7/8" hole which matched the pin I used. (sometimes you get lucky)

The drill press used is 1 hp, gear driven. I have used belt driven ones to do simalar jobs but belt slippage can be a real pain when going over 1/2" plate.

Of course this method is only for a few holes. If your doing a lot of holes take it to a fab shop and have them do it.
Though a radial arm drill would be nice to have.

 

[BWS]

We have a really nice '47 Walker Turner radial with full cabinet under(not open legs).Would love to say it was restored but........it was mint when I got it.It sits next to our BP.It isn't and never was intended to be drilling anything over a 1/2(in metal)and even thats a little out of the scope.From what I gather and can tell,from being sort of involved(long story).....these sorts of radials were aimed at pattern makers.

Got to understand the time period....late 30's-through the 40's.Foundry work was in full swing.Top pattern makers were artists besides being great craftsman.They could put one of these to pretty good use.Which is sort of what we do with ours.Its a bridge pce of equip....figuratively and literally...between our cabinet shop and the machine shop.


Crashed computer...took hundreds of pics and contacts with it.Hell,can't even plug the camera thingy into our current computer setup.Or would take a pic for ya'll.Oh yeah next to radial is another 1947 W/T....this is a vert bandsaw.These are just really nice examples of homeshop equip.Yes they may have certain industrial quality's....but you really need to understand their original focus.BW

 

[kartracer55]

I am betting the 2 inch hole in 1 inch plate is for the pressing plates, not for the press itself. I have been thinking of making my own plates as well as the price some folks are asking for a 1 inch plate with a 2 inch hole is outrageous.

What are they asking? It would talk me all of about 10 minutes if the block was already squared up.