Between 265 & 485 SQ/FT 1950s Craftsman Garage retro remodel

[tinbender 66]

Wow! Heckuva list!! I thought mine was long. Looking forward to the warmer weather again so you can pick up a head of steam.

 

[smschriefer]

Sorry it took me so long to post pics of my new alien. I am very busy these days. I got engaged on Thursday. Had to meet friends I didn't even know she had all weekend, but I am not complaining. As a result, garage related, I will move from a 13x24 one car to a 20x20 two car garage. This after I finished putting down ceramic tile and getting things in order at this place.

On to the planer. She is in great shape, but at some point it was repainted a color close to original. I am going to strip her down and start with bare arn... as I always do. I included a shot of the planer with half the table cleaned. I use Boeshield products and the finished side took 5 minutes total to spay the product on, scrub a little with a wire brush, let it sit for 90 seconds, wipe it off and then spray on the protectorant. Great products, I might say. So here she is, as of today, prior to tear down. Oh, the bench it sits on is an original Companion model from the late 30's and based on the motor date, this planer is circa 1939.

 

[ckadams00]

Your photo said "sell planer" but I did mean jointer. Don't know what to do with mine . . .(I agree it doesn't have the styling of the Delta) - but it still looks pretty bada$$ and is heavy as a small car. Haven't even though about starting to restore it yet . . .too far back in the pile.

Your collection is amazing - no only are you finding great old stuff in good shape - for what looks like very good prices - but you are doing a great job of finding the rare stuff as well. Keep it up!

 

[carbons4]

Keep us informed on the little planer smschriefer. Hopefuly mine will be in my hands by this weekend.

 

[Wingnut65]

Sorry it took me so long to post pics of my new alien. I am very busy these days. I got engaged on Thursday.

Congrats, Steve! Nice upgrade for the GF-to-Mrs and upgrade of the shop! And that planer is Awesome. So much potential to restore and to use. It basically doubles the width that can be planed. Sweet.

RL, I thought it was the planer that was for sale also, if not, talk to your tech's in the graphics department who threw your photo together. Just sayin. Although that Delta isn't just the icing on the cake, it has sprinkles as well! My 1990's Craftsman is boring compared to that one.

 

[smschriefer]

Keep us informed on the little planer smschriefer. Hopefuly mine will be in my hands by this weekend.

I will try to. I have already disassembled it and I must say, it is straightforward as to the main construction. It is also very stout in construction. My plan is to strip it tonight and start painting it tomorrow. I've settled on gray for all tools moving forward. It might be a little dull next to my drill press and my RAS, time will tell if I change my mind.

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

I've been lurking long enough and decided to join GJ. Mostly to say how much I've enjoyed this thread and look to it for some inspiration. Thanks, and keep up the great work!

 

[Red Leader]

Your photo said "sell planer" but I did mean jointer.

RL, I thought it was the planer that was for sale also, if not, talk to your tech's in the graphics department who threw your photo together. Just sayin.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Don't worry, management is taking care of that problem


Whoops! Yep, by 'planer' I totally meant 'jointer'...probably because I was looking right at the planer when I typed that out. Heh, nice catch. I am planning to keep the Kniesley K2000 at least as long as it take to find me something else that is fun, like a 1950s Powermatic 100 or that Craftsman Belsaw planer.

Yet again the garage is having a little identity confusion. But I think I've found a happy medium - as long as I can keep the majority of the tools in the garage as 'Craftsman', I'm okay letting a few others sneak in...like the Atlas drill press...a Red Star RAS...the Delta jointer. Though not Craftsman, they are all tools I admire for their beauty and craftsmanship.

There is lots of love to go around in the 1950s Craftsman Garage. We don't discriminate here

 

[ckadams00]

RL I think you are being very smart about not trying to be too strict on the "Cman" badge . . .you'd miss a lot of great opportunities and very cool machines like your jonter. Besides, it is (ultimately) a shop, not a museum - you want to be able to enjoy and use your machines - that's what they were intended for. Keep grabbing the ones that speak to you.

Which brings me to my next point. Sometimes modern tools are good as well. I'm not speaking about the HF stuff. I particularly think hand power tools fall into this category. I just picked up a Hitachi Lithium 18v drill/impact combo at HD for $199 this weekend and wonder how I ever lived without it.

I also picked this up on CList for $100 . . . .now what am I gonna do?

This in in "like new" shape . . .these retail for about $595 at Sears. 6 1/8 inch by 48". Works like a top. I guess I could turn around and sell it; still, the temptation to keep a machine that works this good that I paid so little for is pretty fierce . . .

 

[Red Leader]

Sorry it took me so long to post pics of my new alien. I am very busy these days. I got engaged on Thursday. Had to meet friends I didn't even know she had all weekend, but I am not complaining. As a result, garage related, I will move from a 13x24 one car to a 20x20 two car garage. This after I finished putting down ceramic tile and getting things in order at this place.

On to the planer. She is in great shape, but at some point it was repainted a color close to original. I am going to strip her down and start with bare arn... as I always do. I included a shot of the planer with half the table cleaned. I use Boeshield products and the finished side took 5 minutes total to spay the product on, scrub a little with a wire brush, let it sit for 90 seconds, wipe it off and then spray on the protectorant. Great products, I might say. So here she is, as of today, prior to tear down. Oh, the bench it sits on is an original Companion model from the late 30's and based on the motor date, this planer is circa 1939.

Great little planer you've got there. Oh, and...


Hello!!!!!!? Shot's of the Companion bench?????

 

[Red Leader]

Wow! Heckuva list!! I thought mine was long. Looking forward to the warmer weather again so you can pick up a head of steam.

Me too man, me too.


I've been tempted to start up my late night garage ritual yet again as the wife goes to sleep - meaning that I'd be out there from around 10:30-midnight or so working on things, but I just don't think I can keep it up. With an earlier work schedule hitting me, it is hard to answer that call. I have to balance between that and the constant thought of work at a standstill out there and figure out which is worse.

 

[Red Leader]

Your collection is amazing - no only are you finding great old stuff in good shape - for what looks like very good prices - but you are doing a great job of finding the rare stuff as well. Keep it up!

RL I think you are being very smart about not trying to be too strict on the "Cman" badge . . .you'd miss a lot of great opportunities and very cool machines like your jonter. Besides, it is (ultimately) a shop, not a museum - you want to be able to enjoy and use your machines - that's what they were intended for. Keep grabbing the ones that speak to you.

First, thank you for your kind compliment! That means a lot to me. Once you know what to look for, a lot of this stuff just keeps coming out of the woodwork. That also means passing on some stuff too. There was a local guy selling a Red Star 40A...the exact model I'm looking for and it even had the nice 1940s rounded cabinet. However, he wouldn't budge on his price, which was several times over what I'd be willing to pay. I've seen that with a few other tools as well. I don't have a huge budget to work with, so it means finding the deals and letting others go. A few months back I went to a school auction where they had some pretty amazing tools...several Powermatic drill presses, Delta sanders, 2 Unisaws, a giant oliver bandsaw and jointer, a Rockwell 18" planer, Delta and Powermatic lathes, and a bunch of other things. I didn't buy a single thing. While some of it was going for 'okay' prices, I have to be a little picky. But it is really fun when you find a really great tool you've been looking for and the owner says "Would you take $50?" These old tool prices are going to continue to go down in price as more people in our society prefer the newer/throwaway stuff and start gradually losing the DIY mentality that helps to acquire skills like bearing replacement and basic electrical work.

The great thing is that there are still a lot of them out there, a lot that are just waiting to be rescued, and something for everyone, whether it is the little 6" planer, or the 16" 'saw table'. It is fun learning about all the tools and the different brands. I would have to say that I am a fan of Craftsman, Atlas, Delta, Red Star, Duro, Parks, Syncro, Crescent, Davis and Wells, and some others. I will probably not own tools from all those manufacturers, but it is fun to pick favorites. I encourage anyone and everyone to look through some of the old manufacturers and see all the amazing tools this country (and a few others) once produced:

http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/bymfg.aspx



And you are right, modern tools have their place as well, especially in the portable department! I would be lost without my modern cordless drill, so I hear you on that one. That is a nice jointer you found and a nice enclosed stand to boot! I'd say if you are happy with it, keep it!

One fun, interesting tidbit of information is that that while most people assume (as did I) that the miter saw was a great invention of modern tool technology, that is actually incorrect.





What year do you think this particular tool dates to?

If you were to say 1925, you would be correct

Don't know why it took so long to catch on.

 

[carbons4]

When they finally did "catch on", they pretty much killed the RAS sales. Especially the compound sliding ones. There are still a lot of things you can do with a good RAS you can't do with a miter saw most people do not realize.

 

[Red Leader]

When you go into a store and take a look at any sliding miter saw, try pulling it out then wiggling the handle back and forth and see how much movement there is at the blade. That is why a good radial arm still has its place. Apart from the miter saw, accidents also accounted for its decrease in popularity. Even though I can see how most/all accidents were operator error (having a limb in the path/travel of the blade), it was branded as a 'dangerous' tool and further decrease it's popularity, even though table saw accidents were more common.

With the right blade (a -5 degree hook angle carbide tipped), the radial saw can be a fun, precise, and safe tool to use, provided the user does their part. Of course, a lot of shops cannot justify the size and footprint they take up in the shop.

I can barely justify it...and now I have two! And still wanting a Red Star!!!

 

[carbons4]

I guess I just got lucky then. My DeWalt is pretty tight,but it cost about double what my RAS did new. (not inflation adjusted). Most people NEVER took the time to set up their RAS correctly either. Just bolt it together and go. If I remember right it took me a good part of the afternoon to get everything aligned and square. If you were cutting strait thru, no big deal. Go cut a dado and watch how much it dropped.Lots of time with the dial indicator. I know I will have to do the same thing again when I dig it out of the basement and put it back into service. Miter saws are pretty much yank it out of the box and go. I see a use for both of them. Miter saw is quick but RAS is a lot more versetle.

 

[smschriefer]

I always get a kick out of the "not safe" belief with a RAS. With a RAS, the blade is in your field of vision and can't hide from you. A table saw has the blade hidden from view. A RAS blade spins away from the user and if used correctly - pushes any kicked back wood away from the user. A table saw spins towards you and pushes the kick back wood at you. The only time a RAS is dangerous is when someone tries to pull the blade back towards themself when making a cut. This is taught to many first time RAS users and is backwards... you push the saw into the work. Oh well, the good news is, due to fear you can get a RAS at bargain basement prices and sometimes for free. I know many woodworkers who have had a RAS for 20+ years and no accidents, but I know way too many who have had serious injuries on a table saw - go figure.

I still owe you a picture of the stand. I will try and get one for you when I have a chance.

 

[Stuart in MN]

The only time a RAS is dangerous is when someone tries to pull the blade back towards themself when making a cut. This is taught to many first time RAS users and is backwards... you push the saw into the work.

I'm not sure I'm following you...here's a picture from a Craftsman instruction manual; the saw is pulled into the work, not pushed.

 

[carbons4]

In today"s world you would have to Idiot Proof everything. But in today's market, who would be left without all the idiots? Yea, we can get them for relatively cheap but some T R E N D Y S.O.B. will figure out how to "re -purpose" them into some monstrocity.

 

[carbons4]

I can't remember if it was when I bought my RAS or just one I had seen since but the picture's you posted reminded me of the outer box had a block diagram of a saw and a hand and three fingers flying away from the saw and DANGER! printed on it. My friend and I could not stop laughing.

 

[HeelAndToe85]

incredible details! thanks for sharing

 

[mdbeck1]

I bought a compound miter saw several years ago. It's portable and great for most boards... ...but when I built the wood shop the first thing to consider was where the radial arm saw was going. It's bolted to the wall and on the very end I aligned the fence of the compound miter saw. Now I can take advantage of that long flat square fence when I need to miter cut a board... ...and when I need to miter cut something real wide I can reset the RAS.

 

[Grandad]

One point in favour of the RAS that nobody seems to have mentioned is that you can't rip panels with a CMS.
I would have thought that was the biggest difference.

Cheers
Jim

 

[Grandad]

I'm not sure I'm following you...here's a picture from a Craftsman instruction manual; the saw is pulled into the work, not pushed.

Stuart, at the time of publication of that manual, pulling the blade toward you was indeed the accepted practise.
There was never any real personal danger if you just used a bit of common sense, but if the blade did indeed climb up over the top of the board you were cutting it threw all the adjustments out.
Every apprentice (Including myself) learnt the hard way not to let that happen as it meant you were in for an afternoons work re-adjusting everything.

Its only in recent times....remember, "Recent" is a relative term dependant upon your age....that the practise of pushing the blade into the work became the norm. Around the same time that O.H.& S. became so rampant throughout the workplace I think.

Cheers
Jim

 

[Red Leader]

Here is a thread that discusses the different schools of though behind the use of the radial saw:

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/ras-push-pull-15784/

There are some points well mentioned.

 

[98TJ]

I learned to pay attention to left hand placement, keep a firm, steady grip on the handle, and cut from back to front - moving the blade towards you as you cut.

I learned this in the late 80s/early 90s.

 

[smschriefer]

Stuart, as Grandad mentioned, this was how Sears taught a generation of users. It was through use that people realized the method they show is dangerous. If you think about it, the way they show it would be the same as you pulling your work back to you on your tablesaw and if it is the way to work it, then every tablesaw has the blade on backwards.

 

[carbons4]

I always thought of it as Climb Milling vs Conventional Milling. (I had a mill before I ever bought my RAS)
The RAS was the true multi purpose tool of the day before everyone had a full shop of tools. cross cut, miter cut, rip, sand ,mold, plane...... you could do it all with a good RAS. And you still can.

 

[Shoottx]

Wally Kunkel known as Mr Sawdust (no longer with us) wrote the one of the best books on using the RAS. Here is a link http://www.mrsawdust.com/

Mike

 

[Skyline]

One point in favour of the RAS that nobody seems to have mentioned is that you can't rip panels with a CMS.
I would have thought that was the biggest difference.

Cheers
Jim

I have exactly the Craftsman RAS shown a few posts above. And let me say you take you life in your hands when you try to rip cut, (turning the head sideways, leaving the head in fized position, and feeding the wood into the saw), with this thing. It has a tendency to want to spit a board out so fast it will create a very dangerous projectile. While I never got hurt, it did eject a board that went right through a solid 3/4" thick wood panel on my garage door 10 ft away. That was enough for me. Perhaps there's some technique I'm missing, but I will never try to rip cut with this saw again. That's what a table saw is for.

 

[Grandad]

Perhaps there's some technique I'm missing, but I will never try to rip cut with this saw again. That's what a table saw is for.

I totally agree a tablesaw is the ideal tool. You have to keep your wits about you using a RAS but not only can it be done, but used to be done all the time.

My very first mentor in woodworking was a cabinet maker who had actually been driving a truck for many years. He got jack of it and re-opened as a cabbie.
The ONLY tool he owned was an old RAS.....plus a bunch of handtools.
He and I built many complete kitchens with nothing more than the RAS.

After he grew to the point where he could rent a factory and buy some machinery, we continued to use the RAS for ripping of the 8' x 4' sheets.
It was so much quicker and easier than the TS.
He continued in that practise for many years until he bought a full sized panel saw.
Yup, if we weren't 100% on the ball, every now and again a sheet would fly.
That's why you made sure nobody, including yourself was ever in the firing line.

I would NEVER try to rip plank type timber on a RAS. But for sheet goods...no problem.

Cheers
Jim

 

[Red Leader]

RE: safety discussions with the radial arm saw, it appears that there are two schools of thought on this one. The 'pull' school and the 'push' school

I don't have a ton of experience behind a radial arm saw, so it is hard for me to say one way or another. Back when I used to work at a stair company, one of the most frequently used tools was a radial arm saw. My memory of it is hazy, but if I had to take a shot in the dark, I'd say it was a 12" DeWalt.

I liked using it, but it would also lurch and climb on pine stair boards, especially when wet. I don't think the saw blade we used was of any help, since I think it was just a standard carbide tooth blade.

The biggest issues I see (theoretically) are that with the pull method, you get the lurching or the climbing effect under certain conditions, and then with the push method, you can get the wood popping up. When pulling through the wood, since the blade is spinning toward the wood, it requires a stead hand to pull it, yet restrain it, otherwise it would just want to go tearing through the wood faster than it would be able to.

With the push method, the saw is not 'climbing' the workpiece or trying to climb past it, but now you've got the teeth on the saw blade cutting into the wood at an upward direction, which would have a tendency to pull the workpiece off the bench. The pull method has the teeth putting downward and backward pressure on the wood, whereas the push method has the teeth putting upward and backward pressure on it.

The reason I like the pull method is that the 'lurch' effect can be mitigated by a quality blade with a negative hook angle and a powerful enough motor. I think a lot of the scary blade climb we associate with a radial arm saw has to do with the horrible blade most have on then, and then the lack of power some saws have. I have not yet heard of a solution that would address the upkick of wood from pushing the blade through it, although there may be. I know a negative hook blade would also help some in this area as well.

-Dave, who currently has a very rough, NON-carbide blade on his Parks/Craftsman RAS

 

[Grandad]

Dave, push or pull....operating a RAS is a skill. Any skill, whether its operating machinery or dealing with underprivledged kids is something we first learn, and then continually perfect.

The jumping of a board when pulling has only two causes. Not enough skill to know you let the tool do the work, or an out of adjustment tool. If both those items are in order, the saw won't jump.

Pushing?....clamping the board would prevent lifting. But in a commercial environment, the time involved in clamping, unclamping and clamping again etc etc would not be tolerated. Well, not in my time anyway.

But again, the combination of correctly adjusted tool + skill will accomplish the same thing. Without losing any crosscut capacity.

Cheers
Jim

 

[Bob Heine]

...As soon as they arrive I'll try them out on my Swag Off-Road table -- it has a little surface rust.

Dave,
The small EXL wheels arrived and I tested one on a couple of rust spots. I used a very slow Flex drill (500 rpm) with a cheap Harbor Freight twist-lock backer plate. After 15 seconds or so, I switched from the EXL abrasive to a blue/green pad from Harbor Freight. I started with this:

Fifteen or twenty seconds with the EXL wheel produced the results on the closest edge of the rust area. The second area beyond the band of rust was produced by the HF wheel.

Just to verify the results, I made a second test on the rusty portion of my Radial Arm Saw post (HF pass on left, EXL on right).

I couldn't see much difference but the five EXL wheels cost $20 while five fine grit HF wheels cost $6:

http://www.harborfreight.com/pack-of-5-2-inch-fine-grade-fiber-grinding-discs-99985.html

 

[smschriefer]

Bob, interesting results. Do you know what version of the EXL wheel you were using? I believe it comes in course, medium, and fine. I still haven't bought an EXL wheel and I'm curious as to which you used. I can buy a whole bunch of the HF pads for that price and then finish with a buffing wheel and compound.

 

[Bob Heine]

Bob, interesting results. Do you know what version of the EXL wheel you were using? I believe it comes in course, medium, and fine. I still haven't bought an EXL wheel and I'm curious as to which you used. I can buy a whole bunch of the HF pads for that price and then finish with a buffing wheel and compound.

The 6"x1" Red Leader is using is designated 9S. The 2" 3M Roloc wheel I just tested is designated 2S and appears slightly coarser than the 9S but produces the same scratch pattern as the HF Fine. You might notice in my second picture that the 3M wheel is significantly thicker so it should last quite a bit longer than the HF ones. I'll continue to use the HF wheels because the aluminum polishing I do tends to clog the wheel long before it wears it out. I also finish with a buffing wheel and compound(s).

I haven't tried the 3M wheel on my pneumatic angle grinder but it should work great (the 2" has a M.O.S [maximum operating speed] of 22,100 rpm).

 

[carbons4]

Red leader for starting this.

 

[carbons4]

Thank you. I am glad to see other people believe in old tools and they are for more than just putting in a display case. You see some of these expensive fancy build with more diamond plate and plastic than the NASCAR pits. They have no soul. They are cold ,impersonal. Thanks againg for showing off your endevours. As well as every one else that posts here.

 

[Will Turner]

Very nice, I've just blitzed the thread in a few hours. 101 pages! Next is to finish the '12 gauge'.

I shall soon be purchasing some EXL wheels, assuming I can source them in the UK.

Thanks for the good reading,

Will.

 

[Mick Mc]

98TJ,

Beautiful saw! That top is looking great! Did it come with the fence? Any other accessories? If you get the chance you should register over at the OWWM forum and post the saw to the registry. The good news about these old Craftsman saws is that since they made many of them, parts are easy to come by and cheap (or free!).

I'm going to try to do a little painting in the garage tonight. I got home late so I didn't want to disturb the neighbors with any sawing. Tomorrow's a late night too so I'm aiming for Friday as a nice night for some trim work.

I have about 5 weeks before the baby comes so 5 weeks is my goal to finish most of everything! (minus the corrugated steel ceiling and epoxy floor).

My next big challenge once I am done with trim is going to be the workbench and the cabinets. I'm going to try out some art deco accents on both but it may take a while. Between now and then I also need to find a jig/sabre saw

OK
Hi my name is Mick
I'm new here.
I own one of these saws...
I picked it up from a buddy who was trashing all of his dads old shop stuff.
I got it and tucked it away for later.
I saw your picture and the mention of OWWM, so I went and double checked, The saw is in good condition.
I think I just caught OWWM disease. See what these fourms so to ya.

Nice shop build.
Now back to the regularly scheduled programming.

Mick

 

[mdbeck1]

OK
Hi my name is Mick
I'm new here.
I own one of these saws...
I picked it up from a buddy who was trashing all of his dads old shop stuff.
I got it and tucked it away for later.
I saw your picture and the mention of OWWM, so I went and double checked, The saw is in good condition.
I think I just caught OWWM disease. See what these fourms so to ya.

Nice shop build.
Now back to the regularly scheduled programming.

Mick

Welcome to the forum.

...and to the disease...