H2O Softener Surprise(s)!

[rwhite692]

Had the Kinetico guy out at the house to check on our water softener, the timer mechanism quit doing it's thing, even after a couple of resets.

We've been in this house since buying it from the original owner, some 13 yrs ago. The Softener setup was new when the house was new, so, 1986-ish.

Anyways, when he pulled out the water softener system away from the garage wall, we found a problem that obviously needs to be addressed....

One of the gray plastic (compression type?) fittings that connect the 3/4" copper line to the threaded male ports on the water softener's bypass valve, is cracked, and has obviously been weeping for a good while. So I'll have to sweat in a new section of copper where it's all corroded.

What the heck are these fittings? I can't recall ever seeing 3/4" plastic fittings like this before.

Puzzler #2, the water filter! Never knew it was back there, LOL. So that obviously needs to be serviced...But, it has no markings on it anywhere to be found, none on the white plastic housing, or the blue canister. Nothing.

Pretty dumb of the manufacturer, not to clearly mark what it is, or the filter part number, on it somewhere. Or, maybe there was a label on it, long ago.

Anyone recognize it?

 

[shannonw]

Those grey 3/4 things are qest fittings on 1" valve body., i know because i had a @#@# of a time finding them for a waterboss look here

http://www.waterboss.com/media/WB_Softener_v7.2_Manual.pdf

lowes,hd didn't have them i'm sure a plumbing supply would.

Make sure what they screw on doesn't have a crack, i couldn't get mine to stop leaking and cranked down on it so much i cracked the qest....upon closer inspection the hard plastic bypass valve had a hairline crack. So i'm looking to get into something a bit better with a fleck valve as it's not worth ordering more parts for this one.

 

[rlitman]

Why can't you replace those fittings with unions.

That filter is a totally generic canister filter. Don't worry about the manufacturer. That's the kind that EVERY manufacturer makes a filter for.

 

[rwhite692]

Why can't you replace those fittings with unions.

That filter is a totally generic canister filter. Don't worry about the manufacturer. That's the kind that EVERY manufacturer makes a filter for.

As to replacing the fittings with copper unions, I was originally thinking to do exactly that, however, the male threaded portion on the bypass valve is NOT an NPT.

So, as Shannon noted (Thanks Shannon!), they require special Qest fittings (made by Zurn) to connect up to 3/4" copper pipe.

As to the "totally generic canister filter", Thanks for the helpful insight....

try as I might, I'm not able to find a replacement filter cartridge for it. Seems I need more specifics than that....

Kind of like saying, "that's a generic car tire" LOL.

 

[Falcon67]

As to replacing the fittings with copper unions, I may do exactly that.

As to the "totally generic canister filter", try as I might, I'm not able to find a replacement filter cartridge for it. Seems I need more specifics than that....

Kind of like saying, "that's a generic car tire" LOL.

HD here carries Quest fittings, but in that install I'd go with something a little more main stream. As for the filter, buy a name brand unit from Lowes or HD and you'll have a better time getting replacement filters for a while. I'd also move that filter to where you can change it easier. They are not that high buck, just take that one out and pitch it.

 

[rwhite692]

HD here carries Quest fittings, but in that install I'd go with something a little more main stream. As for the filter, buy a name brand unit from Lowes or HD and you'll have a better time getting replacement filters for a while. I'd also move that filter to where you can change it easier. They are not that high buck, just take that one out and pitch it.

Thanks, was hoping to just replace the filter cartridge...To change out the whole filter, the copper has to all be cut out....Oh well....one more project!

 

[Highbeam]

I noticed they soldered that filter base in place, nice. Remove the old filter and take that with you to find the replacement. They really are generic. More like universal gasoline for your car.

 

[AussieDan]

I broke a quest fitting on my softener and was able to replace it with a 3/4" sweat to FIPT adapter and a 3/4" sweat union:



There are probably more efficient methods, but that was the best I could come up with from the HD plumbing aisle at 7pm on a Sunday and it's been working fine for a year at this point.

 

[Falcon67]

Thanks, was hoping to just replace the filter cartridge...To change out the whole filter, the copper has to all be cut out....Oh well....one more project!

I know - like my water heater is going to be because the shutoff leaks and is soldered in place. However, if you re-arrange things while they are apart, it'll make life easier later. At least - that's what we claim! Hey Culligan Man...

 

[Nowater]

The filter unscrews with what looks like a cross between a pipe strap wrench and an oil filter wrench (rubber straps on some I've seen-check HF for one.) Since you have to move it anyhow, why not just put on a new "brandname" one where you'll have the specs so at least you will know what size particle you are removing. Just a note, that filter may be an activated carbon filter designed to remove odors. A lot of times, one of each is used. Are you on a well?

In this area, Scotty's used to sell Quest fittings. An online search may find some for you, or you can replace the whole thing.

 

[rwhite692]

Hi Nowater - Yes, we are on a well.

 

[rlitman]

The filter canister can take any sort of brand filter cartridge. Culligan, Whirlpool, GE. Any standard 10" filter core. A particle only one may run as low as $6. Ones that filter for taste have much lower gallon ratings, and more importantly, much lower flow ratings, so if this is filtering anything more than a special drinking water tap, just get a particulate filter.
Here's an example:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000QECW24/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Different manufacturers of 10" filter canisters have different outer ribs, and you can usually find a plastic wrench to fit your, IF you know the manufacturer.
Otherwise, a rubber strap wrench works just fine.

Here's what you do.
1) prepare a clean surface to work on, and a few soda bottles of clean water (you'll see why below).
2) shut the water supply (these filter canisters have no way of stopping the water flow when opened)
3) if possible, release the water pressure from the system
4) unscrew the canister, drain the water in it, and dump the old nasty filter
5) clean out the canister with the clean water you put aside (remember, you shut your water off, so you won't have water at the sink to clean it with)
6) rinse the inside with a solution of bleach and water (dilute the bleach about 2:1)
7) wash your hands, unwrap the new filter, and put it in the canister
8) lubricate the canister's o-ring with silicone o-ring grease (silicone dielectric grease is ok too)
9) re-install the canister, and flush water through it until the bleach is all gone

10) Think about the money you saved going through this whole pain in the **** routine, vs buying one of those newfangled filter cartridges where you just unscrew them a quarter turn (the water shuts off automagically), pull out the old one, and turn in the new one.

 

[rwhite692]

rlitman, thanks very much for the helpful post. I will order up some sediment-only cartridges, since this line feeds the whole-house water supply.

Being that the filter hasn't been changed in at least 13 years, I wonder if I can expect to find higher water pressure at the faucets, when I change the old filter out! The existing one is no doubt packed with sediment, by now...

Where are you on L.I.? ...I'm formerly of Port Washington, and later, Mattituck.

 

[rlitman]

Being that the filter hasn't been changed in at least 13 years, I wonder if I can expect to find higher water pressure at the faucets, when I change the old filter out! The existing one is no doubt packed with sediment, by now...

Where are you on L.I.? ...I'm formerly of Port Washington, and later, Mattituck.

Yeah, it'll probably come out some shade of brown. That is, assuming there's even a cartridge in there at all. It could be empty (which isn't such a good thing on well water).
They say to replace every 6 months, but that depends a lot on the quality of your water. I've got a carbon/taste filter on tap by my kitchen sink (with a tee that feeds my ice-maker). At the end of a year, it just takes too long to fill a glass (not that it's so fast when it is new either).
If you do find a filter in there that's 13 years old, yes, I would expect to see a real difference, especially in the shower.

Those 10" canisters are indeed about as universal as gas for your car. For a sediment filter, you could walk into HD, Lowes, Sears, Ace, or just about any hardware store with your old one, and get a replacement for well under $10.
There is a wider body version that can take the same filter, but is meant to take a larger diameter core for more flow (those wide cylinder filters will not fit your canister though), and also a 20" long version for the same purpose, but both are a little harder to find.

I'm in Bellmore (south shore), formerly from Merrick (yeah, real far move, LOL), but I commute to East Setauket.

 

[Nowater]

If the filter turns out to be an activated charcoal filter, those should be replaced on a regular basis as bacteria grow on the charcoal. Some of the the bacteria may not be what you want. This happens in water treatment plants too (and oftern the plant operators leave the bacteria in the carbon because the bacteria consume unwanted nutrients in the water.)

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Why do you need to cut out and re-solder the copper fittings? If they are not leaking, clean and polish the copper real good. If it is not deeply pitted (and I suspect it is not) there is no sense in replacing it because its a little green on the outside..

Charles

 

[5001craig]

Why do you need to cut out and re-solder the copper fittings? If they are not leaking, clean and polish the copper real good. If it is not deeply pitted (and I suspect it is not) there is no sense in replacing it because its a little green on the outside..

Charles

For ease, go with sharkbits fittings as they rock! Just don't use compression on hard copper as they leak about 50% of the time.

I broke that exact same fitting as the leaker the OP mentioned on my Kinetico. It was about 3 AM and I can't remember exactly what I used but I think it was just a pipe fitting (NPT) that I plumbed to and threaded on the Kinetico (two wraps of teflon tape and a layer of good pipe dope). Never leaked.

Craig

 

[rwhite692]

I broke a quest fitting on my softener and was able to replace it with a 3/4" sweat to FIPT adapter and a 3/4" sweat union:



There are probably more efficient methods, but that was the best I could come up with from the HD plumbing aisle at 7pm on a Sunday and it's been working fine for a year at this point.

^^^^^I wound up doing exactly this.

It turns out that the male black plastic threads on the Kinetico bypass valve ARE indeed NPT thread, thankfully. Sweated on a union and a female NPT to 3/4 sweat adapter, so that part is fixed.

Also added a 3/4 ball valve before the filter, so it is easy to shut off the supply for filter changes, etc.

Upon opening the filter canister - there was no filter element inside. Took care of that, also noticed the O-ring on the blue canister is not in great shape (it has become "flattened" over the years) so I need to replace that, will do so at next filter change (which won't be 13 years from now!)

Thanks to all for your help and suggestions!

 

[rwhite692]

Why do you need to cut out and re-solder the copper fittings? If they are not leaking, clean and polish the copper real good. If it is not deeply pitted (and I suspect it is not) there is no sense in replacing it because its a little green on the outside..

Charles

Understand what you are saying, and have dealt with situations like that before....The corrosion was quite bad in this case, and since it is in an area that is difficult to access once the H2O softener equip is back in position, I didn't want to take any chances.