Garage plan, major problem...

[onthefence777]

Sorry in advance if this gets long. Try to keep it short.

I got funds together, and was debating what kind of building, steel vs wood.

Turns out I have major site issues, I might not even be able to build at all.

First, was going to build out back behind existing tiny one car. Room for approx 16x34. Realized power line comes in real low over top of lot. Not only mine, but neighbors line too - crosses my whole property.. Electrician has friend at power co, they say ~5000 to move power line underground. would kill my budget but doable. My neighbors a really cool guy, but he will hate me if his line is moved at all. He likes it over my yard not his, LOL. Also, water and gas lines go right underneath where it would need to go. Would that be a problem that cannot be fixed?

So, I look at my huge front yard. Room for approx 25x34. Yay, even better. Except theres a septic tank. $3500 to dispose of, figured it wasn't in use, as I was led to believe we were put on sewer years ago. Ok, more doable than power lines. Talking with neighbor, turns out we ARE NOT on sewer, still on septic.

Well $%#^ me. I'm sure it would cost untold thousands to move that septic tank to the ideal spot in back yard.

I would like wider width of building out front but would grudgingly go with 16' wide of back if I have too. My neighbor will hate me for moving his power line but he's going to have to live with it since AFAIK, power co can move them whether he likes it or not. I am desperate to build me a garage I can actually work on cars with. Only other possibility I can think of, is if power co will move service entry to back side of my PROPOSED building and just move neighbors to next pole down.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am very deflated right now, and on the verge of being really bummed out. I have already spent a lot of time planning this garage, and if it can't be done in any way, shape or form, I will have wasted all that time. Hoping I can somehow make this work.

 

[p_mori7]

Can you expand you existing 1 car ?

 

[cowboy73]

Time to move! Seriously, I would see if you could expand the existing garage.

 

[onthefence777]

Can you expand you existing 1 car ?

Yes I have considered that. IDK if its doable, would be a decent compromise. My house is a flat roof, with beams and posts visible on the inside. The ceiling is not high at all, maybe 9'. My garage plan would ideally be as close to 20' peak height as possible. Not sure how to tie in to something like this though, but I would be happy if it could just be connected with one door.

Still have power line in air, water and gas lines below issues.

 

[onthefence777]

Time to move! Seriously, I would see if you could expand the existing garage.

That just broke my heart.

 

[cowboy73]

I'm sorry. Dealing with buried utilities is almost always a pain in the azz. They put them in a location for their convenience not yours.

 

[Keep]

Question on the power lines. Do the lines that run over your yard connect to the neighbors house? or are they just the main lines for the area?

Reason I ask is something called an "Aerial trespass" I found out about this when we had our lines at our office re-run. If your neighbors power lines cross your property, they are trespassing and the power company must move them off of your lot.

Might be something to look into.

As for the septic lines, good luck with that, not only do you have the tank, but the leach field to worry about.

Good luck

 

[onthefence777]

Question on the power lines. Do the lines that run over your yard connect to the neighbors house? or are they just the main lines for the area?

Reason I ask is something called an "Aerial trespass" I found out about this when we had our lines at our office re-run. If your neighbors power lines cross your property, they are trespassing and the power company must move them off of your lot.

Might be something to look into.

As for the septic lines, good luck with that, not only do you have the tank, but the leach field to worry about.

Good luck

Yes they are HIS service entry wires. I am 99.99999999999999% sure this is aerial tresspass. No easement.

I realize septic is a nightmare to move. Not going there.

But, is it possible to move a water line. The gas line isn't so much an issue, I could shorten my building a few feet for that.

 

[cowboy73]

Sure, you can move the water line. If it isn't a main line, and just the one that supplies water to your house. I'd call up the water company and see what they have to say. Moving the water line would be a helluva lot cheaper and easier than moving the entire septic system. A septic system new from scratch can easily run 15K+. Not counting the charges to remove the old one.

 

[Keep]

I think I would call your power company and ask about it. What I was told was since it was the line coming from the main to the meter, it was the power companies issue to move. So you or your neighbor should not be responsible for any costs.

This may not apply to your area, but it sure cannot hurt to check it out.

 

[onthefence777]

Sure, you can move the water line. If it isn't a main line, and just the one that supplies water to your house. I'd call up the water company and see what they have to say. Moving the water line would be a helluva lot cheaper and easier than moving the entire septic system. A septic system new from scratch can easily run 15K+. Not counting the charges to remove the old one.

Good. Yes it is just my water service line that comes from the water main that runs through the alley.

On the power line, I have a suspicion you are right, but the utility probably wouldn't be required to move it. They would be just as likely to cut my line and refuse to provide service to me at all. But I can't imagine moving an overhead line would be nearly as expensive as setting up an underground system. If this is correct, the only issue remains with my power line. Which, seems like an easy way to fix that, would be shortening the existing overhead line, to a new service drop on my PROPOSED building - could I then feed my house panel from an underground line from the new building?

 

[bczygan]

OH drops can easily be relocated and should be no or minimal cost. You might have to set a pole to go around your proposed building or connect it to the building and then go to the house. Meter can be on the garage. No reason to go underground.
No reason to relocate the underground water. Any requirement to relocate the underground gas?

 

[Keep]

That one I cannot answer!

 

[onthefence777]

OH drops can easily be relocated and should be no or minimal cost. You might have to set a pole to go around your proposed building or connect it to the building and then go to the house. Meter can be on the garage. No reason to go underground.
No reason to relocate the underground water. Any requirement to relocate the underground gas?

What do you mean, no reason to relocate the underground water? You think its deep enough to not be an issue with the foundation? The water line goes directly through the middle where the garage would be.

The gas line, I would like to move it closer to my property line as it would cut my shop a little short, but I could live with it. I just want my own garage that a car will actually fit in!


Anyhow, THANKS SO MUCH guys. already feeling like I have options again!

 

[Mystic142]

I doubt that the utility can move the power line onto his property without his permission. At least here, when they run new lines, they acquire a 30' wide easement for the lines and maintenance of them. Without acquiring that same easement on your neighbors land, I don't see how they could "take" his land just so you can free up yours.

 

[onthefence777]

I doubt that the utility can move the power line onto his property without his permission. At least here, when they run new lines, they acquire a 30' wide easement for the lines and maintenance of them. Without acquiring that same easement on your neighbors land, I don't see how they could "take" his land just so you can free up yours.

The line is already over his land. It just crosses my full property first. All I need is for his line to go around my proposed building. Hopefully it can be done.

 

[Kevin54]

I don't think you can build over the top of a utility (water or electric) all due to the fact that IF something would happen and they would have to dig it up, you'd be screwed. Can you post up a pic of the property and house? If you could, it would make it easier to toss some ideas your way.

 

[onthefence777]

I don't think you can build over the top of a utility (water or electric) all due to the fact that IF something would happen and they would have to dig it up, you'd be screwed. Can you post up a pic of the property and house? If you could, it would make it easier to toss some ideas your way.

I agree. I will enquire about moving the water line, if I can just get the power line issue figured out. I don't have a camera, but I can draw a picture of it. Will do that now, hopefully I can figure out how to post a picture.

 

[onthefence777]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Here is the picture hopefully

 

[cj7365]

Sorry in advance if this gets long. Try to keep it short.

I got funds together, and was debating what kind of building, steel vs wood.

Turns out I have major site issues, I might not even be able to build at all.

First, was going to build out back behind existing tiny one car. Room for approx 16x34. Realized power line comes in real low over top of lot. Not only mine, but neighbors line too - crosses my whole property.. Electrician has friend at power co, they say ~5000 to move power line underground. would kill my budget but doable. My neighbors a really cool guy, but he will hate me if his line is moved at all. He likes it over my yard not his, LOL. Also, water and gas lines go right underneath where it would need to go. Would that be a problem that cannot be fixed?

So, I look at my huge front yard. Room for approx 25x34. Yay, even better. Except theres a septic tank. $3500 to dispose of, figured it wasn't in use, as I was led to believe we were put on sewer years ago. Ok, more doable than power lines. Talking with neighbor, turns out we ARE NOT on sewer, still on septic.

Well $%#^ me. I'm sure it would cost untold thousands to move that septic tank to the ideal spot in back yard.

I would like wider width of building out front but would grudgingly go with 16' wide of back if I have too. My neighbor will hate me for moving his power line but he's going to have to live with it since AFAIK, power co can move them whether he likes it or not. I am desperate to build me a garage I can actually work on cars with. Only other possibility I can think of, is if power co will move service entry to back side of my PROPOSED building and just move neighbors to next pole down.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am very deflated right now, and on the verge of being really bummed out. I have already spent a lot of time planning this garage, and if it can't be done in any way, shape or form, I will have wasted all that time. Hoping I can somehow make this work.

Save another year or so, so you can move powerlines, or ask neighbor to help out, tell him youll give him lifetime free oil changes

WOW, you didnt know you were on septic

 

[cowboy73]

I would see if they could move the water line close to the gas line. Alot of utilities run parallel to each other.

 

[onthefence777]

"Save another year or so, so you can move powerlines, or ask neighbor to help out, tell him youll give him lifetime free oil changes

WOW, you didnt know you were on septic"

I knew there was a septic tank, but was led to believe it was decomissioned when city water and sewer was hooked up. Apparently only the water was hooked up.

I had allocated several thousand to dispose of septic tank. So I have several thousand to deal with the lines.

I would see if they could move the water line close to the gas line. Alot of utilities run parallel to each other.

Yes, that is exactly the plan, and hopefully move the gas line closer to property line at same time - drawing is not quite to scale so there is room by the fence. Its the power line, and a PITA (on this issue only) neighbor that is the MAJOR issue. : /

 

[cj7365]

I don't think you can build over the top of a utility (water or electric) all due to the fact that IF something would happen and they would have to dig it up, you'd be screwed. Can you post up a pic of the property and house? If you could, it would make it easier to toss some ideas your way.

at least here in New Mexico, the water company's responsibilty stops at the water meter, so I can move my water line any which way I want to, but I also have to pay for it, example, I live 1800 ft from the main road that is where my water meter is, I had to trench and run main water line to the house

Had to have the wife help out on this one

 

[onthefence777]

at least here in New Mexico, the water company's responsibilty stops at the water meter, so I can move my water line any which way I want to, but I also have to pay for it, example, I live 1800 ft from the main road that is where my water meter is, I had to trench and run main water line to the house

Had to have the wife help out on this one

Yeah, I sort of figured as much. Which is just fine with me - I doubt it can cost THAT much to do it how I want.

 

[dlenkewich]

How do you not know you're on septic?

Do you know septic tanks have to be maintained?

 

[little d]

Stumbling block but, not undoable. Ok, if ya called me to do the job, here is what I'd do;
#1, stake out the shop to give everyone an idea of what ya want and where.
#2, call the utility co's and have them mark their runs. If you can, be there when they are and ask if they can move them if they are in the way and what it will cost.
#3, call your building inspector and councelman, have them come over and see what you want to do, explaning to them that the project will increase the values of the properties around you and of course, bring in more tax revinue, they will probbly get a ***** from this and will tell you what can and can not be done.

On the power lines, lol, they might not want to move them but they can. We had an isue with phone lines running through a tree. Called up and asked if they would move them, the gal I was talking to said "Sure, for a price." I said, but what if I knock them down while trimming the tree? She said, "don't wory, we'll put them back up for free". I said, so let me get this right.... If I knock them down, you'll move them for free? Insert a long pause here...."Mr Rogers, we will have someone there Monday morning to move them for you". Doing my best to not chuckle, I thanked her. Some times ya just have to apply the right presure to the right spot.

 

[fury9]

How do you not know you're on septic?

Do you know septic tanks have to be maintained?

^1-- Unless you are pooping in the woods your septic should be backed up by now after "some years ago" of use. I would check into the septic thing a little deeper. Do you have a suspicious cover in your yard made out of plastic? They converted from septic to city sewer in my Father in laws neighbor hood and everybody now has a grinder pump in their yard somewhere

 

[Jagmandave]

Since you're in a city (which one, btw?) have you been to your local building dept to see about a permit? They may not allow you to build something that big and tall on that sized lot, and your neighbors may have something to say about it too.....you just need to check before you spend anymore time and money on this. In most communities you cannot move a septic once it's established unless you have a lot of land, besides, I see no place in your drawing for you to move it to.

You could hook up to the sewer system and eliminate your septic system. Are you paying monthly fees to the city for sewerage now?

Sometimes your only real option is to sell and buy a place more suited to your needs, or buy just a shop somewhere nearby and keep the house as is.

The power company would have to set another pole to run the power such that it doesn't cross your property to get to your neighbor's house, but that seems pretty do-able.

Check with you planning and building dept, before you do anything else. Take the drawing you put in this thread and see if they have any issues before you go any further with this......it might save you a lot of time, money and aggravation.

 

[olytdi]

I live on a deadend street and have a power pole right in my front yard (a rant for another time). Mine is the second to the last house on the street before the deadend and have the transformer on my pole from which all of the power lines to these houses (three on each side of the street) originate. When I moved-in 12 years ago, the power line from my pole to my neighbor's house at the end of the street crossed right through my front/side yard at an angle to his house.

Not only was this an aerial tresspass, the power company at one time came in and topped the trees in the yard (well outside of the easement) the neighbor's line passed through ultimately destroying them. Prior to purchase, I insisted that the power company remove the lines from over my property and keep them in the easement which they did. It resulted in another pole at the end of the street but freed-up that part of my yard.

I wish I had owned the house when the power company came to top the trees as I would have come unglued. Now I'm having to spend a lot of money to remove a very large rotting tree next week that likely would not have had to be removed had it not been topped to accommodate the aerial tresspass.

They have to move the line if it's not in an easement and they have to do what it takes to do that. Insist on this. Tell your neighbor you won't charge him for the use of your land prior to this.

 

[bczygan]

Typically residential water lines are the property and responsibility of the owner, from the property line (Where a shut off is located) into the house. No need to move it. Simply dig it up, sleeve it where the foundation crosses and pour the concrete.

Gas may be a different matter. Check with your gas company.

Overhead drops, unless for very large services, where they need to go direct to a pole mounted transformer, can be tied in anywhere in a line. It is easier for the poower company to have them near a pole. thus they may bunch them up and run a couple over a neighbors property. Tell them of your plans and ask them to move the drops to accommodate your buildings. They must keep a certain distance away from your structure. Not likely that there will be a charge, but ask. Your drop may need replacing anyway if you are upgrading service size. In any case, it's not your problem to allow your neighbors service to go over your property. I had a neighbor who's OH drop went over his neighbors garage. A tree fell on it and pulled it off the back of his house. Could have set the garage on fire. Your neighbor should want his drop over his own property for control and liability concerns.

 

[bczygan]

A couple more things. There is usually no easement for utilities going from the utilities main lines to the individual house. There are probably utility easements along the perimeter of the lot or along a road or alley.

I am assuming you have found out your zoning classification and looked up the requirements in the zoning book for your jurisdiction. You know the setbacks and size and height limitations and maximum rear yard coverage. You have also looked at your mortgage survey and deed to see any easements. Call MISSDIG and have the utilities marked as to exact installed location (It may vary from planned location on drawings). If in a HOA, check their requirements and restrictions.

 

[onthefence777]

Stumbling block but, not undoable. Ok, if ya called me to do the job, here is what I'd do;
#1, stake out the shop to give everyone an idea of what ya want and where.
#2, call the utility co's and have them mark their runs. If you can, be there when they are and ask if they can move them if they are in the way and what it will cost.
#3, call your building inspector and councelman, have them come over and see what you want to do, explaning to them that the project will increase the values of the properties around you and of course, bring in more tax revinue, they will probbly get a ***** from this and will tell you what can and can not be done.

On the power lines, lol, they might not want to move them but they can. We had an isue with phone lines running through a tree. Called up and asked if they would move them, the gal I was talking to said "Sure, for a price." I said, but what if I knock them down while trimming the tree? She said, "don't wory, we'll put them back up for free". I said, so let me get this right.... If I knock them down, you'll move them for free? Insert a long pause here...."Mr Rogers, we will have someone there Monday morning to move them for you". Doing my best to not chuckle, I thanked her. Some times ya just have to apply the right presure to the right spot.

Have already talked with the tax assessor. Surprisingly to me, he was VERY helpful. As was the planning department. Thank you for your tips!

^1-- Unless you are pooping in the woods your septic should be backed up by now after "some years ago" of use. I would check into the septic thing a little deeper. Do you have a suspicious cover in your yard made out of plastic? They converted from septic to city sewer in my Father in laws neighbor hood and everybody now has a grinder pump in their yard somewhere

I've lived here months. Must of had it pumped right before I bought it because it was empty clear to the bottom. And no, I don't just go poop in the woods LOL (too far away ahaha)

Since you're in a city (which one, btw?) have you been to your local building dept to see about a permit? They may not allow you to build something that big and tall on that sized lot, and your neighbors may have something to say about it too.....you just need to check before you spend anymore time and money on this. In most communities you cannot move a septic once it's established unless you have a lot of land, besides, I see no place in your drawing for you to move it to.

You could hook up to the sewer system and eliminate your septic system. Are you paying monthly fees to the city for sewerage now?

Sometimes your only real option is to sell and buy a place more suited to your needs, or buy just a shop somewhere nearby and keep the house as is.

The power company would have to set another pole to run the power such that it doesn't cross your property to get to your neighbor's house, but that seems pretty do-able.

Check with you planning and building dept, before you do anything else. Take the drawing you put in this thread and see if they have any issues before you go any further with this......it might save you a lot of time, money and aggravation.

I'm in a county area next to an unspecified city. Real close to the city. Found out just last night there is no sewer, that I thought I was connected too. LOL. Cannot afford to move septic even if they would have let me.

Already been to planning department, they were very helpful. Very simple requirements to adhere to: Max 20ft height, 20ft from street, 5 from alley, 5 from neighbor lot line. I have ~ 1700 sq ft that I can build, just unfortunately limited to 16x34 in back yard as land sits right now.

I live on a deadend street and have a power pole right in my front yard (a rant for another time). Mine is the second to the last house on the street before the deadend and have the transformer on my pole from which all of the power lines to these houses (three on each side of the street) originate. When I moved-in 12 years ago, the power line from my pole to my neighbor's house at the end of the street crossed right through my front/side yard at an angle to his house.

Not only was this an aerial tresspass, the power company at one time came in and topped the trees in the yard (well outside of the easement) the neighbor's line passed through ultimately destroying them. Prior to purchase, I insisted that the power company remove the lines from over my property and keep them in the easement which they did. It resulted in another pole at the end of the street but freed-up that part of my yard.

I wish I had owned the house when the power company came to top the trees as I would have come unglued. Now I'm having to spend a lot of money to remove a very large rotting tree next week that likely would not have had to be removed had it not been topped to accommodate the aerial tresspass.

They have to move the line if it's not in an easement and they have to do what it takes to do that. Insist on this. Tell your neighbor you won't charge him for the use of your land prior to this.

Its not in an easement. Sure its aerial tresspass. I wish I had thought to ask them before I moved in, I'm sure that would have been easier. I'm real hesitant to INSIST on anything, as I've heard stories where the power co comes the next day, removes your line entirely, and refuses to hook back up.

I will, however, nicely enquire as to what it would take. I hope they wouldn't charge me for a pole!!!! Sure that'd be in multi $k range. However, thanks for your tip, and I will keep the (I wont charge the neighbor for his use of my yard) in mind as bargaining power with him. I'll do what I have to do to move this line, but I would like to keep him on good terms in neighbor fashion. If he really fights me and I have to go to a real estate lawyer, maybe I'll send him a bill to help him realize he should be more helpful haha! Thanks SO much for your reply!

Overhead drops, unless for very large services, where they need to go direct to a pole mounted transformer, can be tied in anywhere in a line. It is easier for the poower company to have them near a pole. thus they may bunch them up and run a couple over a neighbors property. Tell them of your plans and ask them to move the drops to accommodate your buildings. They must keep a certain distance away from your structure. Not likely that there will be a charge, but ask. Your drop may need replacing anyway if you are upgrading service size. In any case, it's not your problem to allow your neighbors service to go over your property. I had a neighbor who's OH drop went over his neighbors garage. A tree fell on it and pulled it off the back of his house. Could have set the garage on fire. Your neighbor should want his drop over his own property for control and liability concerns.

Dude, your posts seem knowledgeable about this issue... I sure hope you are right that the service drop doesn't REQUIRE a pole, and they can drop it from in between! That would be like pushing the staples "Easy" button! I wholeheartedly agree, it SHOULDN'T be my problem that my neighbors line crosses my yard. Many thanks for your response!

 

[fury9]

Ahh I must of missed the lived here for months part. It's your new house,congrats. I'm sure that garage will be built one way or another!