Welder Current Draw

[fredbaly]

Alright, maybe this has already been asked but I need to ask. It seems that all the small mig welders (miller and hobart) specify 20Amp circuit. I live in an apartment complex that has limited our garages with a 15amp circuit.

Am I going to pop the circuit every time I turn on the machine. I really want to pick one up but this could really mess me up now!

Please give me your input!

Fred

 

[Robbie UK]

All things being equal you will pop the breaker.

I guess we are lucky to have 240v / 13 Amps to every socket.

 

[pipsters]

Alright, maybe this has already been asked but I need to ask. It seems that all the small mig welders (miller and hobart) specify 20Amp circuit. I live in an apartment complex that has limited our garages with a 15amp circuit.

Am I going to pop the circuit every time I turn on the machine. I really want to pick one up but this could really mess me up now!

Please give me your input!

Fred

At max power it would pop the breaker but at the lower settings it would be fine. If you have a washing machine you can plug it into that outlet, typically they are 20 amp. Also if you want to get a 220v unit you can plug it into your dryer or stove outlet with an adapter cord plug.

 

[Outlawmws]

You have 2 things going against you - 15A breaker and a 15A outlet.

Can you use it? yes. but your effective duty cycle will ****, and the higher you run the welder the faster it will pop. Practically speaking you are looking at tack welding rather then anything representing the duty cycle of the welder, which for most 110 machines is about 20%...

 

[fredbaly]

Thanks. Is it possible to take two different circuits and combine them?

 

[Robbie UK]

Is it possible to take two different circuits and combine them?

Yes, it's generally referred to as a 'house fire'.

Is there a way of getting your circuit limit raised through official channels?

 

[Outlawmws]

Yes, it's generally referred to as a 'house fire'.

Is there a way of getting your circuit limit raised through official channels?

Or if you get them from two sides of the 220 panel you could get it to 220V but still only 15A, which won't help you at all, and is not very safe, and certainly not to code. Not that I have ever done that!

 

[fredbaly]

Not sure exactly. i would have to find out if the two circuits in my garage are on different sides of the box. Official channels make it impossible to get 220 or 20 amp. The wire they installed in my apt complex was under rated I believe.

Ill have to get my electrician friend to take a look at what gauge they installed. But from what I was told not big enough for 20 amp....

My washer and dryer are in my apartment way too far away.
Is it safe to assume I might need to run my own generator if I want to be able to weld at home? or buy a house / rent a house with access to the panel?


Fred

 

[Outlawmws]

Not sure exactly. i would have to find out if the two circuits in my garage are on different sides of the box. Official channels make it impossible to get 220 or 20 amp. The wire they installed in my apt complex was under rated I believe.

Ill have to get my electrician friend to take a look at what gauge they installed. But from what I was told not big enough for 20 amp....

My washer and dryer are in my apartment way too far away.
Is it safe to assume I might need to run my own generator if I want to be able to weld at home? or buy a house / rent a house with access to the panel?


Fred

I think you are here. DON"T go looking for 2 circuits to tie in...

 

[fredbaly]

Alright, this means it is going to get very expensive! Will any generator that provides the amps needed work? I could always use a Honda EU3000iS for the track... It is over kill but quite. Remember I live in an apartment.

 

[bseant]

Yes, it's generally referred to as a 'house fire'.

Is there a way of getting your circuit limit raised through official channels?

lol simple and to the point


apts **** you can't do anything in them. Do you have the finances or the option of a home? if so obviously that would be better all around for you.

 

[uart]

So is that only 120V @ 15A that you've got there Fred? (not 240 right).

My little AC arc welder is about 40 volts (open circuit) on the secondary so I guess the turns ratio would be about 3:1 for a 120 volt unit. That would only get you about 45 amps for continuous operation, but you might be able to get significantly more for low duty cycle operation. I'd try it first before doing too much else.

BTW. This is just based on a simple transformer based welder like my cheap stick welder (basically just a fixed turns ratio transformer with a variable air gap). If your welder is a smarter design then you could theoretically get about double that current (for a given mains current), due to the voltage dropping after you strike an arc.

 

[houdni]

youll pop the breaker only when trying to weld at max power...youll be ok with med. to light duty welds

 

[langss]

I have or had the same problem.My garage has a single 20amp circuit. My Hobart Handler 135 blew the breaker easily, so I simply opted to buy a Generator it works out just fine.

 

[fredbaly]

lol simple and to the point


apts **** you can't do anything in them. Do you have the finances or the option of a home? if so obviously that would be better all around for you.

Well, when my lease is up I guess I could go looking for a house. But big bucks for renting one. Not really interested in buying one just yet.

 

[fredbaly]

I have or had the same problem.My garage has a single 20amp circuit. My Hobart Handler 135 blew the breaker easily, so I simply opted to buy a Generator it works out just fine.

Damn, this is killing me. Not even my friends with houses have what I need.

 

[langss]

Damn, this is killing me. Not even my friends with houses have what I need.

I have not used the Welder that much, mostly just learning how to use it, but it was just easier than walking from one side of the house to the other to reset the breaker, not to mention that if anything "Bad" happens, the "Generator" is available.

 

[Outlawmws]

I have not used the Welder that much, mostly just learning how to use it, but it was just easier than walking from one side of the house to the other to reset the breaker, not to mention that if anything "Bad" happens, the "Generator" is available.

If your friends house has a washing machine, those are often on a 20A circuit.

 

[tarbellb]

you are in a tough position, which generally means you have to pay more or wait. heres what i would suggest from a short fix, long term compromise.
buy this extension cord
http://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com/servlet/the-3604/25-FOOT-230V-/Detail
, 25ft, 40 amp, and a plug convertor to your washer dryer.
then buy the best welder you can.
if you do decide to go the generator route, the Honda EU series are awesome. i have personal experience welding with the 3000iS. they are very quiet, well made, and durable. i was running my Miller 220/110 on 110 and it handled it easily.

 

[fredbaly]

you are in a tough position, which generally means you have to pay more or wait. heres what i would suggest from a short fix, long term compromise.
buy this extension cord
http://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com/servlet/the-3604/25-FOOT-230V-/Detail
, 25ft, 40 amp, and a plug convertor to your washer dryer.
then buy the best welder you can.
if you do decide to go the generator route, the Honda EU series are awesome. i have personal experience welding with the 3000iS. they are very quiet, well made, and durable. i was running my Miller 220/110 on 110 and it handled it easily.

I could try but I would need a cable that is probably over 50ft at least. That doesn't even get me to my garage!

 

[jpickar]

I want to jump in here. I am an electrician.
A 15 amp circuit is 14ga. wire. A 20 Amp circuit is 12ga. wire.
You can not up the breaker to 20 amp without over heating the 14 ga. wire. AND starting a internal wall fire.

You can not run a "extension cord" from your washer/dryer circuit without voltage drop. That causes over heating of the circuit and a fire!

A over sized generator is the best option here or run a 20 amp, 12ga. circuit from the panel to where you are going to weld. The living situation that you live will probably prohibit that.

John

 

[bseant]

If your friends house has a washing machine, those are often on a 20A circuit.

x2 this should work

 

[fredbaly]

Jpickar,
Thanks for the info. Funny enough I knew that I was just still trying to come up with a solution. My buddy told me the same thing. I have a feeling it is time to research some generators....

 

[Alchymist]

I want to jump in here. I am an electrician.
A 15 amp circuit is 14ga. wire. A 20 Amp circuit is 12ga. wire.
You can not up the breaker to 20 amp without over heating the 14 ga. wire. AND starting a internal wall fire.

You can not run a "extension cord" from your washer/dryer circuit without voltage drop. That causes over heating of the circuit and a fire!

A over sized generator is the best option here or run a 20 amp, 12ga. circuit from the panel to where you are going to weld. The living situation that you live will probably prohibit that.

John

I guess I better throw away all my #8 and #6 extension cords before I burn up, huh?

 

[Jawn]

Is your kitchen close to your garage? There may be some 20A circuits there.

I'm in a similar boat, renting a townhouse with only a single 15A circuit in the garage. My air compressor won't run on that, but an 8 foot extension cord allows it to reach the 20A kitchen circuit on the other side of the wall.

 

[jpickar]

I guess I better throw away all my #8 and #6 extension cords before I burn up, huh?

If you in deed have #8 & 6 extension cords then you do not have a fire hazard. You still have voltage drop and low voltage will burn up any motor in time. The more you use it the faster it will burn up.

John

 

[Alchymist]

If you in deed have #8 & 6 extension cords then you do not have a fire hazard. You still have voltage drop and low voltage will burn up any motor in time. The more you use it the faster it will burn up.

John

What you're driving at is simply not true - any qualified electrician can size an extension cord, or a sub panel feed to avoid excessive voltage drop. To simply tie extension cords and motor burn-up in an all inclusive statement begs the issue.

 

[uart]

You can not run a "extension cord" from your washer/dryer circuit without voltage drop. That causes over heating of the circuit and a fire!

John

John, yes the voltage drop and hence the overall power loss increases with the length of the cord. That power however is distributed over a greater length of wire, so the power loss per foot is actually unchanged. Provided that the cord's wire gauge is rated for the current, there will be no greater risk of overheating a long cord as compared with a shorter one.

The potential problem of excess voltage drop reducing the devices performance however is real. The wire gauge may indeed need to be oversized in accordance with the extra length of the cord so as to minimize this issue.

 

[pipsters]

How is using a 50' extension cord on an outlet 2' away from the panel any different than plugging in directly to an outlet 50' away from the panel? Wouldn't the drop be the same amount? It's the same wire carrying the load.

 

[uart]

How is using a 50' extension cord on an outlet 2' away from the panel any different than plugging in directly to an outlet 50' away from the panel?

Is there anyone here actually claiming that there is a difference? If so, I can't see it.

 

[jpickar]

Well I tried to help. Some of you don't want to be helped! Not my problem, it's yours.

John

 

[pipsters]

Is there anyone here actually claiming that there is a difference? If so, I can't see it.

Just everyone gets up in arms about using extension cords...

 

[Outlawmws]

How is using a 50' extension cord on an outlet 2' away from the panel any different than plugging in directly to an outlet 50' away from the panel? Wouldn't the drop be the same amount? It's the same wire carrying the load.

Well I tried to help. Some of you don't want to be helped! Not my problem, it's yours.

John

Just everyone gets up in arms about using extension cords...

John no one was jumping on you. They asked a question.

As to "everyone gets up in arms about using extension cords", that could be local code driving the concern. Some codes don't allow them in certain situations/environments, others are more lenient.

I don't think pipsters question was out of line.

 

[Alchymist]

As to "everyone gets up in arms about using extension cords", that could be local code driving the concern. Some codes don't allow them in certain situations/environments, others are more lenient.
.

Bottom line, there is nothing wrong using an extension cord of the proper size for any load. Size it for load, length, service type, & good to go.

 

[Outlawmws]

Bottom line, there is nothing wrong using an extension cord of the proper size for any load. Size it for load, length, service type, & good to go.

I never said there was anything wrong with it. But sometimes local code has no reason.

I was working in one particular city, and the the code was changed and I watched them have to remove every single extension cord in the plant AND cut every using electrical device power cord to no more than 3 foot long and run power to be close enough to be used. Insane? Of course. But it was done...



I took my stuff home and let them provide me with "Code" equipment...

 

[uart]

How is using a 50' extension cord on an outlet 2' away from the panel any different than plugging in directly to an outlet 50' away from the panel? Wouldn't the drop be the same amount? It's the same wire carrying the load.

Just everyone gets up in arms about using extension cords...

Ok, I see what you're getting at. Yes, provided that the wire gauge of each is properly chosen for the current and the length of run, no difference.

Why I think people may get "up in arms" about very long extension cords is simply the greater opportunity for safety issues (breaches in insulation, laying in puddles of water, chewed on by animals or children, run over by lawn mower etc etc) that the longer run entails.

 

[Alchymist]

Why I think people may get "up in arms" about very long extension cords is simply the greater opportunity for safety issues (breaches in insulation, laying in puddles of water, chewed on by animals or children, run over by lawn mower etc etc) that the longer run entails.

But, then, Darwin has a way of helping those people out!

 

[pipsters]

Ok, I see what you're getting at. Yes, provided that the wire gauge of each is properly chosen for the current and the length of run, no difference.

Why I think people may get "up in arms" about very long extension cords is simply the greater opportunity for safety issues (breaches in insulation, laying in puddles of water, chewed on by animals or children, run over by lawn mower etc etc) that the longer run entails.

I'm referring specifically to the claim that you will burn motors out and cause fires, not tripping over a cord.