Another welder (Pro Mig 180) versus electrical...

[clarkebd]

Hi All-

I'm trying to run a new device in my garage and I'm either not getting power to the outlet or I'm getting the wrong voltage and need to know how to correct it.

Here is the device input power label. From this I think it can use either 208v or 230v:

Here is the outlet I am connecting to:

Here is the electrical box layout in the garage that the outlet is powered off of:

And here is an upclose of the 2 breakers that I circled in red in the picture above that the outlet is connected to:

Questions:
(1) Can I stick a volt meter on the outlets BLACK and RED wires and I should be able to measure the voltage coming out right?

(2) What is my electrical currently setup for -- and how do I fix it if it's not the correct voltage for what the device needs?

I am assuming the device (welder) is good, as it's brand new out-of-the box. I guess there is a slim chance it could be bad, but I'm guessing my problem probably lies with the electrical?
I'm going to post this on another board as well so I can try to get this figured out as quickly as possible.

Thanks for any help! When it comes to electrical my brain short circuits!!!
-Brian

 

[vhol5]

Hmmm... everything looks correct for a 240 volt setup.
Yes a multimeter on the red and black SHOULD read 240 volts. Check that first...

 

[clarkebd]

I put the red to the red and black to the black and the meter read 245.5v and didn't move from it.

Yes, I keep the breaker off but turn it on when I was ready to use it (and test it above).

So I'm for sure getting power to that outlet then. It's wired directly to the main feed outside the house (it was all inspected and passed if that counts for anything).

When I plugged the welder in, and no dice I did check the sub panel and the main box panel outside and nothing was tripped.
The main panel, actually has a 50amp breaker it appears feeding this 40amp setup in the garage sub-panel so that should all be good.

There is a breaker/reset on the back of the welder. I tried pushing that but nothing still.
According to the manual, the fan should turn on when the welder power is on (even if you aren't welding yet). I'm getting nothing from the unit however.

 

[vhol5]

Just to be clear, you checked the voltage at the welder outlet?

 

[clarkebd]

yes, I put the meter on the outlet that I plug the welder into (2nd picture in my original post).

 

[pattenp]

You beat me to my same question.

But another question. Is the welder new, not used?

Just to be clear, you checked the voltage at the welder outlet?

 

[vhol5]

I am assuming the device (welder) is good, as it's brand new out-of-the box. I guess there is a slim chance it could be bad, but I'm guessing my problem probably lies with the electrical?
I'm going to post this on another board as well so I can try to get this figured out as quickly as possible.

Thanks for any help! When it comes to electrical my brain short circuits!!!
-Brian[/QUOTE]

 

[Rentawrench]

Check voltage from white to copper ,then black to copper then try hooking up the white wire to the 3rd lug on the plug, an the bare copper wire as ground to the outlet.

You seem to have the neutral ( white ) hooked up in the panel.

 

[clarkebd]

Yeah it's a brand new out of the box Lincoln Electric Pro Mig 180.

I'm going to try plugging it into my dryer receptacle in the house as I know that outlet works! (but that will have to wait until tomorrow night after work to try)

 

[BLACK DEATH]

Is that breaker off? I think it is if its to the right. I think you still get voltage through to read that 245 reading

 

[vhol5]

FYI, the dryer outlet has a different configuration than the welder outlet...
I also noticed the neutral connected at the box, but that doesnt really matter, as the neutral isnt used anyway.
I, personally would check the connections Inside the welder, but thats just me!

 

[Norcal]

Receptacle needs a connector for the cable.

 

[clarkebd]

yeah I flip the breaker on to get the 245.5v reading. When it's off I get near 0 which is correct.

The white is not used on the 6-50R receptacle. The ground is the green in the receptacle, which has the bare wire run to it and also grounded in the sub-panel.

The white end in the sub panel is connected to ground, but not in the receptacle. That's so if I ever change out the receptacle, it's already hooked up and ready to use in the sub.

 

[pattenp]

Why do all of that? The neutral is connected in the panel but is not connected in the outlet. The outlet is wired correctly for 240V, the white/neutral should not be connected in the outlet.

Check voltage from white to copper ,then black to copper then try hooking up the white wire to the 3rd lug on the plug, an the bare copper wire as ground to the outlet.

You seem to have the neutral ( white ) hooked up in the panel.

 

[210Hardtop]

Is that breaker off? I think it is if its to the right. I think you still get voltage through to read that 245 reading

If the breaker is off the voltage will read zero.

 

[clarkebd]

Why do all of that? The neutral is connected in the panel but is not connected in the outlet. The outlet is wired correctly for 240V, the white/neutral should not be connected in the outlet.

Correct. In that outlet, the white is not needed.

 

[vhol5]

Why do all of that? The neutral is connected in the panel but is not connected in the outlet. The outlet is wired correctly for 240V, the white/neutral should not be connected in the outlet.

True, as the ground or neutral reading is insignificant, as he gets the 245v through both hots.

 

[pattenp]

Looks like it's clamped to me. The cable outer sheathing is just not clearing the back of the box.

Receptacle needs a connector for the cable.

 

[clarkebd]

Looks like it's clamped to me. The cable outer sheathing is just not clearing the back of the box.

Correct. It's a clamp type behind and up to code here.

 

[Steevo]

Everything about the panel, wiring and receptacle appear correct, and 245.5v across the red/black at the receptacle indicates the wiring is all working as it should.
Time to look at the welder.
What model is it? Maybe we can find the PDF manual and examine the strapping configuration on the unit.

 

[clarkebd]

Everything about the panel, wiring and receptacle appear correct, and 245.5v across the red/black at the receptacle indicates the wiring is all working as it should.
Time to look at the welder.
What model is it? Maybe we can find the PDF manual and examine the strapping configuration on the unit.

It's a Lincoln Electric Pro Mig 180

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/Equipment/Pages/product.aspx?product=k2481-1(LincolnElectric)

 

[pattenp]

I looked at the video, manual, etc. and don't see any reason why it shouldn't work. If you got it from Lowes I'd take it back and let them check it or get another one.

 

[Mmfh]

Maybe when they assembled the welder they forgot to hook up the power wires inside the welder??

Stranger things have happened. Maybe Friday afternoon at the old factory??

Mm

 

[pattenp]

The welder is checked at the factory to make sure it works before being shipped out. Something must have come loose or gone bad from all the handling. Just a guess.

 

[Steevo]

There is an electrical diagram in the owners manual that shows some kind of "Identity Plug" that has two configurations, one for 120v and one for 230v.
Maybe they set it up wrong?

 

[clarkebd]

There is an electrical diagram in the owners manual that shows some kind of "Identity Plug" that has two configurations, one for 120v and one for 230v.
Maybe they set it up wrong?

Hmmm. Can you link me to where you saw that?

Oh on second thought, you might be looking at a different model. They make a next level up model that can run on 120 or 230. Mine is strictly a 230 model.

 

[pattenp]

Here's the link for the PDF, wiring diagram is page 29.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/imt891.pdf

 

[Steevo]

They make so many different models, with slight variations. I was looking at the Pro-Mig 180 Owners Manual, found by searching the Support section at www.Linconlelectric.com

 

[RangerDaleXp]

Sorry, I had the whole test procedure written out but the forum logged me out so it was all lost. I see they still have not fixed the problem with that and I do not have the time to write it all over again.. Maybe if I have time latter I will try it again....

 

[dave67fd]

To me the 230V unit still has an internal connector J4 that should have a jumper between pins 1 & 2. Check to make sure the jumper is installed. They could have tested it and inadvertently removed the jumper.

 

[clarkebd]

FOLLOW UP - It *WAS* the Welder itself!!!

It was the welder. I finally just went and exchanged it. Plugged the new one in and it fired right up, no issues.

Man, frustrating how much time you doubt your setup and it turns out to be the unit itself.
Brand new one off the shelf too. But thankfully this new-new one worked.

Thanks everyone for double-checking the wiring setup!