How do I tap into my neighbor's line?

[sideways]

Well, my power company has made it almost financially impractical to acquire service from them. Theyh need to tap into a main line, burrow under the street, bring the line up into a new box, and finally trench about 320 feet to my building...very expensive and almost twice the estimates they had provided me...albeit informal. I've contacted my neighbor who is already on the same side of the street and right beside my lot, about tapping into their line and then trenching to my workshop. They are considering it, but have concerns about the power draw when I turn on a welder or something like that. It's a small personal workshop, nothing commercial and no heavy equipment beyond my 50amp Lincoln buzz box. Is there something I can do to prevent such a draw down. They already experience it when their heat pump kicks on. Being able to do this could save me a lot of money and I've offered to pay them just for the priviledge of hooking into their line but I'd like to prevent them from being negatively impacted as well....any suggestions?

 

[Bronson]

Yeah. Dont do it.

 

[Falcon67]

I'd tell you "Sorry, no thanks". No way that'll work in the long run and if they already have load problems you'll only make it worse. And if the power co comes out to address the complaint and they figure it out, you'd both likely be out of power due to violations of service agreements. How'd they like you then?

From the Texas utility rules:
"§25.23. Refusal of Service.
(a) Acceptable reasons to refuse service. An electric utility may refuse to serve an applicant until the applicant complies with state and municipal regulations and the utility's rules and regulations on file with the commission or for any of the reasons identified below.
(1) Applicant's facilities inadequate. The applicant's installation or equipment is known to be hazardous or of such character that satisfactory service cannot be given, or the applicant's facilities do not comply with all applicable state and municipal regulations.
(2) Violation of an electric utility's tariffs. The applicant fails to comply with the electric utility's tariffs pertaining to operation of nonstandard equipment or unauthorized attachments which interfere with the service of others. The electric utility shall provide the applicant notice of such refusal and afford the applicant a reasonable amount of time to comply with the utility's tariffs."

From 25.29:
(c) Disconnection without prior notice. Electric utility service may be disconnected without prior notice for any of the following reasons:
(1) where a known dangerous condition exists for as long as the condition exists. Where reasonable, given the nature of the hazardous condition, the electric utility shall post a notice of disconnection and the reason for the disconnection at the place of common entry or upon the front door of each affected residential unit as soon as possible after service has been disconnected;
(2) where service is connected without authority by a person who has not made application for service;
(3) where service was reconnected without authority after termination for nonpayment; or
(4) where there has been tampering with the electric utility company's equipment or evidence of theft of service.

You might not be "theft of service" but to them, it'd damn sure look like it.

 

[Wastedwagesracing]

We do something simular at the Airport. We have trunk line buried along the back of the hangars. The tenants own there own building and lease the ground from the Airport. We in turn charge them a annual fee for power. We did this based on the Power Companies recommendation. They did not want to run 30+ individual electrical services to the hangers. Might not be the same as your situation. But whatever you do I'd be up front with the utility. Maybe you can offer to throw some cash at your neighbor to to up grade his service and solve two issues at once.

 

[dittle fart around]

There comes a time in life when you must pay for what you want and or need. Steeling power from your neighbor might not seem like a big deal but to the local utility it is. They can and will prosecute you.

 

[larry_g]

A few it depends;
1. Are you figuring to tap in after the neighbors meter?
2. Are you figuring to tap into his feeder line before his meter and adding a meter at your building?
3. Are you figuring to have the power company tap into his box and you just need a right of way from the neighbor?

I could see #3 working but the other two are questionable. #1 may work if as wasted says "Maybe you can offer to throw some cash at your neighbor to to up grade his service and solve two issues at once." See what the power company says.

DFA is probably correct in the long run. Time comes to sell or the neighbor sells and problems may arise that would be prevented by doing it on your own.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[sideways]

Actually, one of the tech guys at the power company suggested the possibility of tapping into my neighbor's line...he said they could set up a "dual meter" and yes, the line would have to continue to my building. Not sure if the tap occurs prior to entry intomy neighbor's meter, or behind it. I thought it was just prior to entering it. And, not sure if I have the option of putting a meter on my building (which I would prefer) or placing it at my neighbor's. No intention of stealing anything, as I discussed this with the power company and with neighbor. Was going to pay the neighbor for the priviledge, but if upgrading their service would take care of the power drain, that might be an option. Would it be necessary to upgrade the cables leading to their meter, or is it just by manipulating the voltage through it...as long as the cable is rated for it? I don't know...

 

[pattenp]

In the middle of the night using night vision goggles.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Actually, one of the tech guys at the power company suggested the possibility of tapping into my neighbor's line...he said they could set up a "dual meter" and yes, the line would have to continue to my building. Not sure if the tap occurs prior to entry intomy neighbor's meter, or behind it. I thought it was just prior to entering it. And, not sure if I have the option of putting a meter on my building (which I would prefer) or placing it at my neighbor's. No intention of stealing anything, as I discussed this with the power company and with neighbor. Was going to pay the neighbor for the priviledge, but if upgrading their service would take care of the power drain, that might be an option. Would it be necessary to upgrade the cables leading to their meter, or is it just by manipulating the voltage through it...as long as the cable is rated for it? I don't know...

Sounds like the service you see on Duplexes, with one service to dual meters supplying the two independent residences. That would be legal and doable most places if the service is heavy enough to handle it, and the neighbor consents to the feed from the meter to your property.

The neighbor is being supplied three wire 240v so if an upgrade is needed it would mean running new cable from the transformer to the meters. Might still be cheaper than what they quoted you.

Charles

 

[Zeke]

Power supply does not cross property lines. You need your own service. Get a generator for big jobs and solar for lighting. With a big tank and a small gas engine, you can have an air compressor that doesn't have to run all the time. Heat with fuel.

 

[eljefino]

It might be a good idea, in order of events, for the neighbor to complain about quality of their electrical service... brownouts under "single family" use, whatever. They might have used cheaper thinner wire "back in the day" and would give a newer, better service wire for free/ subsidized.

Mention "commercial" though and you get out of the "taxpayer subsidized rural electrification" or another similar program.

Then once this is set up, go for your dual meter. Utilities do easements across properties all the time; this might be a cheap/free permit to get.

 

[Aceman]

You can't cross property lines. Pay up or use a generator.

 

[duude]

What's the box? Transformer? Is there primary on your side of the road? Not exactly sure of the wiring situation. They don't just tap into a "main line"...sounds like you have a pad mount transformer on your side of the street. If this is the case, you can supply the ug wire and trench your own service to their specs, pull permit have electrician install a new meter base on your building. PoCo will make connections at the transformer and install meter. Wouldn't consider jumping onto the neighbors service.

 

[hh76]

I'm not exactly clear on where you would tap into their feed? Please clarify if possible.

If they are already experiencing problems with thier system, I would avoid tying in. Even if you're not the cause, they may begin to point fingers your direction if they perceive things getting worse. At some point it will become an issue between the two of you.

 

[Nighttrain]

Natural gas in the area? How about a nat gas. generator. Run when you need it.

 

[mpire]

Stupid question, but why can't you just dig your own trench and bury your own line?

 

[Falcon67]

You can't cross property lines. Pay up or use a generator.

Our's does, and do many others around here. We happen to own the lot, but the underground feeder is not on the lot with our house. Utility does what it wants, pretty much. That's the co-op. Our old place across town had two feeds running across it to other houses - that was AEP lines. I complained, they said "too bad".

 

[Aceman]

Our's does, and do many others around here. We happen to own the lot, but the underground feeder is not on the lot with our house. Utility does what it wants, pretty much. That's the co-op. Our old place across town had two feeds running across it to other houses - that was AEP lines. I complained, they said "too bad".

I'm not referring to utility feeds. I'm referring to customer owned wiring after the meter/panel, I assumed that was what he was tapping into?

If he's trying to tap into his neighbors utility feed(before their meter), I bet the power co would have something to say about that....

 

[DekeT]

My suggestion is to move,

 

[I void warranties]

oo jumper cables. and a wooden ladder. old school!

 

[SuperSocket]

I'm curious, what do you deem as expensive to pull your own lines?


You can split off from your neighbor, but aside from the trenching cost itself, I am not sure how much you are really saving if any.

 

[Amazingglazier]

There comes a time in life when you must pay for what you want and or need. Steeling power from your neighbor might not seem like a big deal but to the local utility it is. They can and will prosecute you.

Who the hell said anything about stealing, he spoke with the neighbors!

 

[6768rogues]

I would not use the neighbor's supply.
1. Anything that goes electrically wrong in their house is going to be your fault.
2. A future owner might unplug you.
3. It might not be legal for your neighbor to be in the electrical supply business.
4. Easements should be filed allowing you to access the neighbor's property to service your electrical supply lines.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

Power supply does not cross property lines. You need your own service. Get a generator for big jobs and solar for lighting. With a big tank and a small gas engine, you can have an air compressor that doesn't have to run all the time. Heat with fuel.

Perfecto.

 

[HOTFR8]

From what I read your power company needs to upgrade what they have in the street so you can have power and your neighbour can upgrade.

 

[Roots]

I'm curious, what do you deem as expensive to pull your own lines?


You can split off from your neighbor, but aside from the trenching cost itself, I am not sure how much you are really saving if any.

I'm curious as well. 320' is a good distance but I'm guessing the lateral bore could be a few coins as well.

 

[Red Goat]

What about an off the grid solar setup? I don't know much about them, but might be worth investigating. Would need a generator as backup for the welder though.

 

[mpire]

What about an off the grid solar setup? I don't know much about them, but might be worth investigating. Would need a generator as backup for the welder though.

Solar has a 20-30 year payoff.

Not sure if that's even a rational investment to be honest.

 

[jbberns]

Actually, one of the tech guys at the power company suggested the possibility of tapping into my neighbor's line...he said they could set up a "dual meter" and yes, the line would have to continue to my building. Not sure if the tap occurs prior to entry intomy neighbor's meter, or behind it..

Emphasis on Dual meter. I wouldn't think it would be a big deal.

 

[jbberns]

Actually, one of the tech guys at the power company suggested the possibility of tapping into my neighbor's line...he said they could set up a "dual meter" and yes, the line would have to continue to my building. Not sure if the tap occurs prior to entry intomy neighbor's meter, or behind it..

Emphasis on Dual meter. I wouldn't think it would be a big deal.

 

[RVDan]

Solar has a 20-30 year payoff.

Not sure if that's even a rational investment to be honest.

You're absolutely right. Its not really rational where electrical service is readilly available.

Solar panels are great, they have no moving parts, no electronics, and usually come with a 25 year warranty.

The problems

1. Converting the solar panel DC power to AC
2. Powering your shop when the sun isn't shining.

Solar panels don't really have the amperage to run a whole lot on their own, generally you run everything off batteries and the solar panels charge the batteries when you're not using power.

So you need a big bank of batteries and a power inverter. You need enough batteries to power whatever you want to run, along with the equivalent size inverter, so you're going to spend a thousand bucks on batteries, a couple thousand more on a huge inverter, a few hundred in battery cables and related wiring accesories, and whatever the cost of the solar panels and controllers.

After the initial investment, Whoohoo, free power! For a maximum of five years when you need to replace the batteries. Inverters **** out fairly often too, they only come with a one year warranty. Don't forget the maintenance, you have to get up on the roof and clean the solar panels regularly, and keep the batteries filled with water.

I work on RV's for a living, I instal a lot of solar systems, so I figured I was going to run my workshop on Solar and battery, but the math says that over twenty years I can buy power cheaper.

It works well in an RV setup, where the lights and furnace already run on 12 volts, your 110 volts AC use is pretty minimal, a little TV, fifteen minutes of coffee maker, a few minutes of the wife using a hair dryer, microwave some soup, cellphone and laptop chargers. You use a bunch of power in the morning, but generally go out during the day and do recreational stuff which gives the solar a chance to recharge the batteries.

A shop setup is a lot more power hungry. Air compressor, drill press, grinders. Don't even think about a welder. Of course I want to use all the power during the day, leaving only a minimal amount of daylight time for the batteries to recover, and thats only if its not raining, which it generally does every day here.

Back to the OP, if the neighbor is already having voltage problems, you'll want to get them an upgrade before adding yourself to their line, although its likely the power company will already know they need to increase the line size if they're talking about a second meter for you.

 

[TommyK]

With a properly executed utility easement this is no big deal. The adequacy of the neighbors service size is another matter. If you have to pay to upgrade his service to accommodate your load the delta between this scenario and running your own service line from the street may be small enough to outweigh the easement hassle. Also, once you start talking easement with your neighbor you will probably find they get cold feet or that the compensation for hooking up suddenly becomes a much bigger number.

If you proceed without the easement you are at the mercy of your neighbor (or future neighbor) for your electricity. In other words if they get pissed off they can turn the power off and you have no legal recourse.

 

[HOTFR8]

Still sounds to me like the power company needs to upgrade in that street. if the neighbour has problem you adding into his connection will only make it worse. Pressure them to upgrade what is in the street.

 

[HOTFR8]

Well, my power company has made it almost financially impractical to acquire service from them.

Make a complaint to your local Politician.

 

[matt151617]

If the price is totally out of the question, then just get a nice generator. You can always put it in a little shed or something further away and run some wiring into the garage so it's not loud.

Size it appropriately to power the welder and a couple lights. You'll have to shut anything else off if the welder is running.

 

[SuperSocket]

Make a complaint to your local Politician.

To be realistic, when you have to bore 320', then you have a large property... which is a luxury. Correct me if I am wrong here - The OP has already electrical service at his house, this is for his SHOP (which tells me his house is even further away than the shop is from the utility box).

So it's not like they are denying him his rights, he chose to build the shop in that location. It would be a whole different thing if he was trying to get power to his house in a say 200k house subdivision of 1/4ac lots and the electrical company wants 50k to run power to it from the curb.

 

[HOTFR8]

To be realistic, when you have to bore 320', then you have a large property... which is a luxury. Correct me if I am wrong here - The OP has already electrical service at his house, this is for his SHOP (which tells me his house is even further away than the shop is from the utility box).

So it's not like they are denying him his rights, he chose to build the shop in that location. It would be a whole different thing if he was trying to get power to his house in a say 200k house subdivision of 1/4ac lots and the electrical company wants 50k to run power to it from the curb.

Even with that information it also sounds like the power company does not have the power available meaning the lines in that location need to be upgraded. I can be corrected if wrong other wise why are they (power company) asking so much for a new connection ?

 

[RPH]

Ok, boring a hole or trenching 320 feet. Big differance. With Detroit Edison it will be about $20 a foot for them to do all. Expensive yes but doable. Boring only under the street if needed. Something no right here. Edison wanted $1800 for new transformer to get it closer to barn and I said no way. We are now working on the alternate ways to bring power. By the way I own a Vermeer trencher so I can dig my own. 400 feet not much more than an hours digging. And no we are clay/ sand rock mix. I would ask for the engineer to come out and talk options.

 

[Roots]

Even with that information it also sounds like the power company does not have the power available meaning the lines in that location need to be upgraded. I can be corrected if wrong other wise why are they (power company) asking so much for a new connection ?

The electric grids is regulated pretty bizarre at times in America; it's a tangled mess of politics, profits, and regulation/deregulation. Generally the utility is only responsible to provide power to residential homes, in reasonable locations, even if at a great loss with some rural connections. Secondary services to shops are generally lumped into a sort of commercial category. Where the utility can require the end user to pay for the connection or increases required for the service. They'll generally pay for the connection and upgrade if it the usage will cover the expense in the future though, that's frequently not the case though with small shop or farm feeds.

 

[HOTFR8]

The electric grids is regulated pretty bizarre at times in America; it's a tangled mess of politics, profits, and regulation/deregulation. Generally the utility is only responsible to provide power to residential homes, in reasonable locations, even if at a great loss with some rural connections. Secondary services to shops are generally lumped into a sort of commercial category. Where the utility can require the end user to pay for the connection or increases required for the service. They'll generally pay for the connection and upgrade if it the usage will cover the expense in the future though, that's frequently not the case though with small shop or farm feeds.

Much the same here

I had a similar issue here years ago when I built as I wanted electric floor heating but to have that we needed 3 phase yet the street only had two phase and from that we had been advised not to fit floor heating. Then a few years later another house went up and the builders put in floor heating and wired it to the two phase power. Needless to say it created problems for every one in the street and the power company came and made a change now we have three phase power in the street.