picts of your in-floor heat set ups.

[socapots]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Here is my system. The main reason I am posting this is to show that you don't have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to have in floor heat. Some people have more money in copper fittings than I do into my whole system. So try not to laugh or criticize too much, my in floor is as simple as it gets, as cheap as it gets, and works really really well.

1st pic shows my wood boiler, which I designed and built myself. It works well. Heating my 1500 sq ft house only, it consumes about 5 cords of wood/winter which is pretty damn decent here in MI. With the shop tacked on I am averaging about 8 cords.

The shop is 200 ft away from the boiler, and pex was laid in a trench and then sprayfoamed over.

1000 sq ft, 2 "zones", 16" on center runs, with faucet style valves on each one to help with zone control, although both are wide open and I see no need to change it.

The rest is simple. A 24 volt transformer sends voltage to a digital thermostat on the wall which turns a 24 volt relay on and off, which switches the pump on and off. No heat exchangers are used, boilerwater goes through the floor. A mixing valve has been added to reduce water temp entering the floor from 180 to about 90 degrees.

The bucket is used to purge air out of the system, as my shop is uphill from the boiler bleeding the air out was a challenge.

This is the first year I have been running it and it works great.

Now back to your fancy beautiful polished copper systems with gauges and do-dads galore.

Thats petty good.
how often do you have to feed the fire?

 

[VairKing]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

2-3 times a day depending on outside temperature. Once a day if its above 40.

 

[VairKing]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

You didn't mention anything about your insulation package, but I'm guessing that you took no shortcuts.

KO

Yes shop is insulated, fiberglass batts in the walls and cellulose in the ceiling. There is no insulation under my slab though, as I poured a cement cap on top of the existing cement floor to hold my heating lines.

 

[whitey42wlc]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Here are a few snaps of my set up. The name of the game was to have it as simple as possible. This propane Noritz is 199 000 btu and is heating a 6000'
pole barn in Ontario. R40 attic, R28 walls, 2" foam slab insulatuion.
We are still under construction so don't bust me on having it run on an extension cord ! Grundfos 3 spd pump pumping 24- 220 loops 1/2 oxypex.
Stat calls and a Taco valve opens routing the flow through the heater.
Took a lot to get the slab up to temp in December but I am amazed at the even heat. Keeping the shop at 60 degres and leaving the fans off.
Even on our coldest days the heater runs maybe two to three times a day.
What a learning curve. A 60-65 degree shop is PLENTY WARM.
The floors are not warm as I had expected. Fans off, the furnace almost never fires. Propane consumption is 2 100lb bottles every 8-10 days.
thats about 16 litres per day or about $10-12/day. At first I thought expensive but when you consider the shop is three times the size of an average home, it is great. If I could heat a 2000' home for $4.00 a day
I would be calling the newspaper ! I love my in floor heat !

 

[1grnlwn]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Well we are just getting started, here is what we got so far. I got some diamond plate but doubt if I use it to frame my system. LOL But i do think I will take some more time to neaten up the system a little. So I may be worthy. My heat source is a Taylor 1000 OWB. And we will be heating 2500 sf.

 

[1grnlwn]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

E.rodz I like your tray set-up with the pvc connectors and bushings, cool idea.

 

[E.rodz]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Thanks everyone for posting. I hope this thread inspires and helps thats what its all about !! keep the posts coming.

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Pump "position" (I think you mean orientation) has nothing to do with air in a radiant flloor heating system.

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Here are a few snaps of my set up. The name of the game was to have it as simple as possible. This propane Noritz is 199 000 btu and is heating a 6000'
pole barn in Ontario. R40 attic, R28 walls, 2" foam slab insulatuion.
We are still under construction so don't bust me on having it run on an extension cord ! Grundfos 3 spd pump pumping 24- 220 loops 1/2 oxypex.
Stat calls and a Taco valve opens routing the flow through the heater.
Took a lot to get the slab up to temp in December but I am amazed at the even heat. Keeping the shop at 60 degres and leaving the fans off.
Even on our coldest days the heater runs maybe two to three times a day.
What a learning curve. A 60-65 degree shop is PLENTY WARM.
The floors are not warm as I had expected. Fans off, the furnace almost never fires. Propane consumption is 2 100lb bottles every 8-10 days.
thats about 16 litres per day or about $10-12/day. At first I thought expensive but when you consider the shop is three times the size of an average home, it is great. If I could heat a 2000' home for $4.00 a day
I would be calling the newspaper ! I love my in floor heat !

This is a nice looking system but a properly sized condensing boiler operating on outdoor reset should run continuously at a low reset temperature creating more comfort and using less fuel.

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Here is my simple electric setup. I was going to wait to get a new NG line ran, but found a smoking deal on a Seisco electric boiler.

Line voltage thermostat controls the pump and temp sensors in the Siesco turn itself on.

Nice looking work.

Since this electric boiler is at the top of the system, a low water cut-out also be at the top. Though electric boiler manufacturers show the pump down stream of the electric boiler, I prefer to pump into any low-mass boiler as pumping away will create lower pressure behind the pump. In a low water situation when the boiler flashes ot steam a boiler may burn up more readily.

Water fill is properly made at the point of no pressure change.

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

A aouple projects I have done in the past.

A Waste Oil boiler installed at a Honda Service center

A residential install

Well done. Would you like to work in Minneapolis?

Did you need a zone valve AND actuators on each loop?

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

As far as getting all of the air out: I put water in through the fill valve, with the shut-off closed, and that forced out air and water through the drain valve. I kept the water flowing for quite a while to make sure most of the air was purged. The air seperator takes care of any remaining air. I'm no expert, I followed Radiantec's directions. My garage is 26 X 32 X 14. I attached a picture with the valves labeled.

You picture a 75# pressure relief valve generally used for well pressure tanks. It is unsuitable (unsafe) for radiant floor heating systems or hydronic heating systems of any kind.

You need a 30 pound relief valve reading the installation instructions and running rigid pipe to the floor.

This is potentially dangerous business.

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Remembering that electric boilers will generally operate at 3 times the cost of natural gas I humbly submit a proper example of a condensing boiler installation.

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

This is a proper radiant floor over a frost protected shallow foundation, insulated with with XPS, tubeb with barrier PEX and driven with a wall-hung, condensing Munchkin/Contender boiler here in Minneapolis.

Note: oThis is one of the smallest (lowest output) condensing boilers on the market today; one pump, one zone/thermostat, one manifold with propylene glycol mixed for burst not flow.

This system operates at 98% combustion efficiency and has over 8000 operating hours without nothing but a bi-annual clean and check.

 

[Fastback]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

This is a proper radiant floor over a frost protected shallow foundation, insulated with with XPS, tubeb with barrier PEX and driven with a wall-hung, condensing Munchkin/Contender boiler here in Minneapolis.

Note: oThis is one of the smallest (lowest output) condensing boilers on the market today; one pump, one zone/thermostat, one manifold with propylene glycol mixed for burst not flow.

This system operates at 98% combustion efficiency and has over 8000 operating hours without nothing but a bi-annual clean and check.

It looks like you stapled the pex directly to the foam board, I don't like that idea as individual studies have shown that suspending the pex higher up in the slab improves heat distribution.

 

[Fastback]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Remembering that electric boilers will generally operate at 3 times the cost of natural gas I humbly submit a proper example of a condensing boiler installation.

Really, I don't think so, that pump is pushing into the sprirovent, they even point out how that is not the ideal design.

 

[70pcuda]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Here's my system. Hope to have it up and running later this week.

 

[E.rodz]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Here's my system. Hope to have it up and running later this week.

simple looking system. before you fill it up I would move your air vent to the highest part of the system or you will never get the air out of it and you will cavitate the pump. I am not an expert by ay way but this really stands out as a problem. Just trying to help.. by the way you will love the heat all said and done.!

 

[70pcuda]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

You know, I just thought the same thing the other day. Maybe I can add a second one at the top, abouve the pump?

Like this one:
http://www.pexsupply.com/Bell-Gossett-113222-Model-No-97-1-8-Automatic-Air-Vent-Male-Threaded

 

[hercules633]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

70PCUDA- do you have any dollar amount figures on your system, minus the pex tubing? what size and brand is your boiler/on demand? how many sq feet you heating? looks great

 

[70pcuda]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

I don't, but could probably add up all my receipts.

going to heat 3456 sq foot

Thanks

 

[jack stand]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

A couple of years ago.

 

[70pcuda]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

70PCUDA- do you have any dollar amount figures on your system, minus the pex tubing?

I bought everything you see on the wall for right around $1500.
The PEX tubing was $1355
The Natural Gas, 150K btu Dayton forced air heater was a $200 craigslist purchase. Been using it to knock the chill off while working on the Radiant system.

So everything you see there was around $3055. Took a lot of shopping around and waiting for deals.

Takagi TK-4 on demand 199K BTU. The shop is 3456 sq ft.

Anyone know how long I can expect it to take to heat the floor up on initial startup? Overnight? days?

 

[E.rodz]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

I bought everything you see on the wall for right around $1500.
The PEX tubing was $1355
The Natural Gas, 150K btu Dayton forced air heater was a $200 craigslist purchase. Been using it to knock the chill off while working on the Radiant system.

So everything you see there was around $3055. Took a lot of shopping around and waiting for deals.

Takagi TK-4 on demand 199K BTU. The shop is 3456 sq ft.

Anyone know how long I can expect it to take to heat the floor up on initial startup? Overnight? days?

lets see the final picts. and how does it work? you can't keep us in suspense for that long.

 

[70pcuda]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

The final system looks just like the previous picture I posted, except I added a vent to the highest part of the system to get all the air out. (and it worked)

I fired the system up and the next day it was 60 degrees and hasn't really got much colder since. So I won't really know how it performs until next winter.

 

[maxspeed96ct]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Are you guys in cold weather areas like new england running a glycol / antifreeze mixture in your slab radiant ?

 

[jack stand]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Are you guys in cold weather areas like new england running a glycol / antifreeze mixture in your slab radiant ?

I don't, it reduces efficiencies. I'm not sure how much but the radiant design Co. that I used advised against it for my situation. I suppose that if you wanted to be able to "shut down" everything for an extended period in the coldest part of the winter you'll want it. With slab heat, it is important to insulate under the slab and the vertical frost wall (in my case) so I believe that it would take more than a week of cold with the heat off before I started to wory.

 

[maxspeed96ct]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

I don't, it reduces efficiencies. I'm not sure how much but the radiant design Co. that I used advised against it for my situation. I suppose that if you wanted to be able to "shut down" everything for an extended period in the coldest part of the winter you'll want it. With slab heat, it is important to insulate under the slab and the vertical frost wall (in my case) so I believe that it would take more than a week of cold with the heat off before I started to wory.

Thanks, reason im considering it is I might not run my radiant unless im in the garage doing work for cost reasons.

But Im having trouble finding a answer, some say the pex just wont freeze inside the slab some say it can. i'd like to avoid the glycol since it takes more btu's to heat and like you said kills the efficiency

 

[walrus]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

I'm running glycol in my solar heated slab, you will lose efficiency but not that much. In my case I have a closed loop so had to have glycol as collector temps are outside temps at night

 

[E.rodz]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

coming up on heating season tought it might be a good idea to get this rolling for inspirational purposes.there is some great systems on this thread. Thanks everyone for posting! keep them coming.

 

[rev177]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Mine is just getting set-up now

 

[E.rodz]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Mine is just getting set-up now

nice job on the install should be able to enjoy it before the snow flies!

 

[wedge40]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Hope to post my layout in next few weeks. Been playing with loopcad the last couple of days to get an idea on layout.

Wedge

 

[bglad]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

I started out with intentions of radiant heat in a 40 x 40 but gave up when I realized the expense of the underfloor insulation. Now I plan on just doing the mancave and bath.

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

I believe the pump manufacturers recommend running the pumps vertical rather than horizontal. Laying the horizontal makes it hard for them to clear air pockets.

Really??????

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

But Im having trouble finding a answer, some say the pex just wont freeze inside the slab some say it can. i'd like to avoid the glycol since it takes more btu's to heat and like you said kills the efficiency

We never use anti-freeze unless we must e.g. snow melting. The PEX will freeze and leak if filled with water an frozen.

If you don't want to heat the slab full time, you have to think of when you wil use it. Using the heat on and off during cold weather requires a anti-freeze mix that will flow in the coldest weather. If you don't want to use it at all, the a burst mix is sufficient.

If you won't use the radiant floor until next season, test with air and fill with water next year.

Anti-freeze will de-rate the output of the slab, increase fuel consumption, cost more to pump and be hard to keep in the system...fitting leaks.

 

[hidollartoys]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Here is mine.

 

[maxspeed96ct]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

We never use anti-freeze unless we must e.g. snow melting. The PEX will freeze and leak if filled with water an frozen.

If you don't want to heat the slab full time, you have to think of when you wil use it. Using the heat on and off during cold weather requires a anti-freeze mix that will flow in the coldest weather. If you don't want to use it at all, the a burst mix is sufficient.

If you won't use the radiant floor until next season, test with air and fill with water next year.

Anti-freeze will de-rate the output of the slab, increase fuel consumption, cost more to pump and be hard to keep in the system...fitting leaks.

I plan on running the system all winter long , but only plan on keeping the garage at a steady 55-60 degrees F

I'd really rather not run glycol . Glad you agree I don't need it .

 

[maxspeed96ct]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Here are some pics of my freshly laid tubing

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Now that's purdy...