Using old fixtures vs. buying new

[biscuit141]

In my garage I have 5 T12 fixtures that are 4 foot in length and 2 bulbs each. The light output is decent, but I need to move them around and add a few more fixtures. These current fixtures are probably from '92 when the garage was built and are very heavy, I am assuming magnetic ballast's? Would I be better off just replacing all fixtures with new and just scrapping out the old ones? I have checked at the local electric supply house and they have very similar fixtures to Lowes, HD or Menards but are priced higher. Are there decent fixtures sold at an of these big box stores with would be a good value? Should I reuse these old fixtures? Is this a case of "they don't make 'em like that anymore" in a good way?

 

[Tdbo]

If they are still good fixtures, why not reuse them? Still cheaper then replacing them all.

 

[Gary S]

Is this a case of "they don't make 'em like that anymore" in a good way?

They don't make them like that anymore and it is a good thing. The newer fixtures with electronic ballasts are an improvement in every way. They are cheaper to buy, more energy efficient, generate less heat, and weigh less.
I won't reuse old fixtures with magnetic ballasts anymore once I have to move them. The new ones I get from Menards are much nicer than the old ones.
It is your choice. Do what works for you, but soon the T12 lamps will be obsolete, so new fixtures deal with that problem too.

 

[jbberns]

You can always change out the ballasts to electronic t8 when the old ones go bad. I'd reuse if it was me. The fixtures menards and lowes sell, seem to be junk.

 

[knobby]

You can always change out the ballasts to electronic t8 when the old ones go bad. I'd reuse if it was me. The fixtures menards and lowes sell, seem to be junk.

this is what I did with some commercial fixtures it worked out very well energy efficient and robust construction best of both worlds IMHO

 

[kbs2244]

You already own them.
That makes them the cheapest.
The extra efficiency of the newer ones will never be noticed in the casual use of a home setting.
If and when they die replace the whole thing.
You can buy a complete fixture for less that a ballast.

 

[Speedy Petey]

If and when they die replace the whole thing.
You can buy a complete fixture for less that a ballast.

Then you must be buying real junk fixtures.

You can get two-light 32 watt (4') ballasts for like $20 these days.

Personally I'd replace the ballasts and lamps now. The light output will be much better, especially since they have been up and running for years. This way you'll have all the same ballasts and lamps so there will be no confusion when replacing later.

Fluorescent lamps loose quite a bit of brightness as they age. It is a good idea to replace ALL the lamps in an area at the same time, whether they are out or not. You'll see a dramatic difference in brightness.

 

[Gary S]

You can get two-light 32 watt (4') ballasts for like $20 these days.

You can get a new fixture for that money and it is ready to install.

 

[Norcal]

You can get a new fixture for that money and it is ready to install.

& they are crappy too.

 

[Gary S]

& they are crappy too.

What's crappy? My newer Menards cheapies work great for 8 years now. My old ones were slow lighting while the new Menards ones light right away even in cold weather.
Crappy in my opinion is the old junk I tossed.

 

[frankush]

The old fixtures generally were stamped out of a heavier gauge of sheet metal. I've taken down thousands of them. You could replace the ballasts and lampholders and be good to go. It's usually cheaper to buy new. Most of the new fixtures have razor sharp edges.

 

[Speedy Petey]

You can get a new fixture for that money and it is ready to install.

Wow!
Don't tell me, you buy your tools from Harbor Freight too.

 

[Speedy Petey]

You could replace the ballasts and lampholders and be good to go.

Unless they're broken there is no reason to replace lampholders.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Unless they're broken there is no reason to replace lampholders.

I've found that usually, about half of the lamp holders need replacing. Either they are burned where the wire pushes into them, or they are burned where the lamp pins contact them. In any case, get a few of them, proper size and height, to have on hand, you can always return the unopened ones.

I too vote for reusing the old fixtures if they are decent looking, condition, etc and only need new ballasts and lamps. It allows you to purchase a decent quality ballast for the price of a whole thin, cheap fixture with a crappy ballast.

Charles

 

[jbberns]

About a year ago, we changed lamps and ballasts in over a thousand fixtures for a school district. We did it that way because it was the most cost effective.

 

[kbs2244]

How many of us have 1000 fixtures to worry about.
Most of us are talking about 5 to, at the very most, 20.

 

[softailgarage]

Replace 'em. I did 2 years ago and was never happier. No more flickering lights, no more humming, more light and the bill came down. Before you do though, check with your state and electric company, they may have programs that cover the cost of replacement. You're gonna have to do it eventually, may as well do it now while your messing with them.

 

[Falcon67]

I had 14 T-12 fixtures. I saved considerable $ just replacing them. At that time, a replacement ballast was about double the cost of a fixture. Yes, I used the low cost Lowes Utilitech 4' T-8 shop lights @ $18 each. Over the last 5 years before we moved, never had to replace a single one. I even took the ones that weren't "nailed down"with me and they are in the new shop. My new 8' T-8s are from HD and cost a whopping $40 each. Since those are hardwired, I would replace a bad ballast rather than a fixture. I have 8 installed with 6 to go, so far no issues. And just to be argumentative, even if 50% of the ballasts failed out of the box, I'd still be out a lot less than commercial grade equipment, not counting the PITA factor of course.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Pretty sad how at this time in our country $40 for a light fixture is considered "whopping" and 5 years with no failures is considered a success.

Does ANYONE else care about quality and workmanship any more? Or is it really all about the almighty dollar?

I guess seeing how busy most wally world stores are it's only about the dollar.
Keep bitching about China folks, you're only doing it to yourselves.

 

[Gary S]

Wow!
Don't tell me, you buy your tools from Harbor Freight too.

Yes, I actually have a couple of Harbor Freight tools that I bought for occasional use. My heavy use tools are made in the US.

 

[Rich H.]

I'd recommend buy brand new T8 electronic ballasts off ebay for pennies on the dollar and some good quality T8 bulbs.

The lights shown in the pic below cost me 84 dollars total for six brand new, GE proline T8 8 foot electronic ballasts and $1.49 for a can of white spray paint, and 13 bucks a pair for bulbs.

http://garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=177892&d=1333076158

4 foot bulbs and ballasts are even less expensive, and even easier to find.

So that's my vote....if the metal is in good shape just rebuild them but only if you take the time to get deals on the electronic ballasts.

If you figure the cost of the ballasts at full retail, then the fixtures are scrap.
The way to fix that is, don't pay retail.

 

[jbberns]

How many of us have 1000 fixtures to worry about.
Most of us are talking about 5 to, at the very most, 20.

Which one is cheaper to do. Just letting you know.

 

[frankush]

Unless they're broken there is no reason to replace lampholders.

Ever replace a ballast and still have the lamp flicker? Lampholders are cheap and replacing them is generally good insurance that you won't have to go back into the fixture.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Ever replace a ballast and still have the lamp flicker?

Yeah, which is why I replace them as needed. There is NO reason to go around and replace all of them unless they are broken/defective.

 

[Falcon67]

Pretty sad how at this time in our country $40 for a light fixture is considered "whopping" and 5 years with no failures is considered a success.

Does ANYONE else care about quality and workmanship any more? Or is it really all about the almighty dollar?

I guess seeing how busy most wally world stores are it's only about the dollar.
Keep bitching about China folks, you're only doing it to yourselves.

I have bought plenty of USA stuff that was junk, so don't get so high and mighty. I can even show you pictures. Other than that, it has been my experience over the last 12~15 years that if a typical T8 ballast makes a year, it's likely to run for a long time. I've lost a few and all went pretty quick after installation. As for cheap fixtures - the only thing worth anything in the box is the ballast, the rest is cheap bent tin, some wire and tombstones.

Besides, the lights I buy at HD are from Lithonia, 1 year warranty and rated for commercial and residential. General purpose T8 strip, Energy Star rated, etc. Not bad for $40. Lithonia appears to be out of Conyers GA, so I assume the lights I buy end up feeding some Americans. I know it feeds some local people at HD because I see them almost every week. Including the helpful guy in Electrical and Lighting that made it here from Zimbabwe to start a new life. I spent many years in manufacturing and distribution - where the part starts is one thing, but it gets handled plenty between there and you. And a lot of the handlers are us.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Chris, no high and mighty here. Just someone who HATES seeing us get taken over by China, by our own doing. I'm sure someone from your neck of the woods can appreciate that. Sure, not every last thing made in the USA is top quality, but overall it is much, MUCH better than the **** coming from Asia.

I'm not sure what you do for a living, and I have also seen my share of electronic ballasts go early, but compared to the amount installed it's not bad these days. Unfortunately they are electronic which makes them more susceptible to failure, as opposed to the older magnetics which were MUCH less sensitive.
That said, I have plenty of electronics out there with 10-15 years and going strong. IMO the early units were the worst.

The $40 fixtures are the ones I think are fine. Especially from someone like Lithonia. It's the cheap $10-$20 chinese **** that I find reprehensible.

Let me ask you, what kind of electronics/parts do you run in your car? Dedenbear? MSD? Holley? ******?
Would you rather have a chinese made delay box in your car? Or USA?

 

[Falcon67]

Let me ask you, what kind of electronics/parts do you run in your car? Dedenbear? MSD? Holley? ******?
Would you rather have a chinese made delay box in your car? Or USA?

Sorry - didn't mean to sound so mean about it.

FWIW and LOL - here's some race related items I have dealt with:

I run Mallory 685s in both cars. Mallory - AFAIK - has offshored it's production a few years ago. The last one I bought from Jegs in 2008 was in new packaging, fully assembled - but had no electronics in the casting. Jegs replaced it overnight FedEx.

MSD distributors - zero problems

****** used to have all their headers made in Mexico, maybe still does. Not sure as they belong to Holley now. Both cars run custom headers from Tubular Auto in MA - about double the cost of Hookers. Good parts. Last set I bought were Hedman Hedders - looked like they had been welded in high school shop. They went back. At least the Hookers fit and seal.

Holley - last carb I built I tried to use Holley parts. Paid $20 extra for a "real" Holley HP body to build a double pumper. Here's pic of what I got, note the boosters. Returned it for a ProForm part that was perfect and 100% better looking plus less money. I try to buy USA when I can, but USA sometimes has to step up.

 

[Mercy]

I ended-up replacing ours simply because the ones I could find at HD with the wire guards were cheaper than buying just guards for our existing lights.

 

[Speedy Petey]

****** used to have all their headers made in Mexico, maybe still does.

I was reading how ****** moved everything from Mexico and Canada to Tenn.

 

[ajchien]

If they still work I would reuse them. I'd buy new ones if they break.

Unless you wanted a consistent, uniform look.

I don't think this is a cost issue, this is more of an aesthetic issue.