Anything wrong with "over wiring" the house or shop?

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Other than expense and limited spaced in the boxes, is there anything wrong with completely over wiring at house? Putting in more circuits, maybe a larger panel with more openings, and making all the circuits at 20 amp.

Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[nanofrog]

So long as it meets code, and you're OK with the additional cost, you'll be fine.

I presume you're looking at potential high current devices (i.e. want a home run for each potential outlet you may run high current devices) and/or future expansion in a home you plan to be in for a number of years?

 

[Gary S]

I put 30 receptacles in my garage and 13 lights. The lights all get used all the time. I'm sure that quite a few of my receptacles have never been used, but I don't know which ones have gone unused.
I also know that if I was short one receptacle that I needed, I would know about that really well.
You will never be sorry if you put in more receptacles than you can use, but you will always regret being short one that you need.

 

[RECox286]

I don't think you are the only one...

When I finished off my upstairs into two 12x25 bedroom/mom's workspaces, I

put one duplex receptacle every 4' of wallspace, in a two gang box, with a duplex/blank

cover. All circuits rated for and fed with 20A bkrs. If ever needed, I can easily

upgrade any location to a 2 gang duplex and not have to worry about burning the

house down.

Uncle Bob

 

[theoldwizard1]

So long as it meets code, and you're OK with the additional cost, you'll be fine.

So sparkies, what is the price difference between 250' of 14/2 versus 12/2 ? How many coils do you use on a typical house ?

Despite what every one says, those cheap "back stab" outlets are fine if you bend and hook the wires properly under the screws. 30 or 40 of those versus the same number of 20A rated outlets. It will add up fast ! Wouldn't surpise me if it as an additional $1,000.

 

[jbberns]

Other than expense and limited spaced in the boxes, is there anything wrong with completely over wiring at house? Putting in more circuits, maybe a larger panel with more openings, and making all the circuits at 20 amp.

Thoughts? Thanks!

Hope the limited space is in the panel and not the outlet boxes (box fill).
I would use 1000' spools and put them on an axle to pull off easier.

 

[nanofrog]

So sparkies, what is the price difference between 250' of 14/2 versus 12/2 ?

~$25 per 250' roll (copper).

How many coils do you use on a typical house ?

I don't think what the OP is wanting to do is typical, so it will depend on the number of circuits and distance of each run (not just how much wire, but size the correct gauge to keep the voltage drop in check).

For example, 14-2 is only rated to 50' in order to keep the voltage drop within limits. Longer distances would require a heavier gauge wire (parallel may be possible, depending on code), but the breaker's current rating wouldn't be able to be increased (can't use a 20A breaker with parallel runs of 14-2).

Take a look here if you're interested in Voltage Drop calculations (scroll down beneath the chart).

 

[rsanter]

most houses today are far underwired IMO

if it was up to me I would have the plugs in each room on seperate breakers and I would have a second panel for the garage alone.

also install a whole house surge protector

bob

 

[BJ42LX]

If you're building a new house ALWAYS have them put in a panel with 10 or 20 extra breaker slots. You will use them over time. And it's really not that expensive - $50 or $100 more.

Are you doing the wiring youself? 12 ga is harder to work with that 14ga. My Dad's buddy did 12ga throughout his house himself. He says it was a mistake. The extra effort and expense is not needed to run a TV and a lamp in the family room.

In the garage or basement, it's a different story. That's where more is always better.

Oh, run a sparate curcuit for your microwave in the kitchen. It will save you having the lights dim when you heat up that slice of pizza.

Separate utility circuits and lighting circuits in shop areas. Nothing like popping a breaker when you're using a circular saw and having the lights go out. Now you've got a 3400 rpm saw in your hand. Spinning down. In the dark.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Are you doing the wiring youself? 12 ga is harder to work with that 14ga. My Dad's buddy did 12ga throughout his house himself. He says it was a mistake. The extra effort and expense is not needed to run a TV and a lamp in the family room.

Yep.

The smartest thing I ever saw done was running 3 switches at the entrance to a bedroom. First was the ceiling light, second was for the fan and the 3rd switch the bottom plug of every duplex outlet in the room. Nice to be able to turn on the bedside lamp regardless of whih wall you put the bed in.

In the garage or basement, it's a different story. That's where more is always better.

Oh, run a sparate curcuit for your microwave in the kitchen.

I have seen new homes built with only 1 plug in the entire basement for both the washer and (gas) dryer.

IMHO, the number of circuits required in a kitchen now a days is ridiculous ! I have all the modern kitchen conveniences and the run on 2 15A fuses. Never blown one in 35 years.

 

[Jawn]

I have seen new homes built with only 1 plug in the entire basement for both the washer and (gas) dryer.

IMHO, the number of circuits required in a kitchen now a days is ridiculous ! I have all the modern kitchen conveniences and the run on 2 15A fuses. Never blown one in 35 years.

Yep. My garage has a 15 amp breaker to run an outlet on the wall, an outlet on the ceiling (door opener), and an overhead light bulb. I have to run my compressor on the 20 amp circuit in the kitchen just around the corner (I put a ~12 foot piece of 12/3 on the compressor).

My basement is no better. Just an outlet on one wall and a few light bulbs. I hate stringing extension cords around, but I don't own this place and I don't expect to be here much more than another year or so.

 

[PRH44]

I would say I over wired my home. I have two 200 amp 42 circuit panels. I used all 12 awg wire because most is in conduit at least the home runs. The house is a turn of the century craftsman. So the basement has open beam construction. The exposed wood and block walls I wanted to leave exposed. So I ran all electrical in conduit in the basement using retro fixtures giving it an industrial or warehouse look.
Cost is always a concern so you want to tabulate just how much you are willing to spend.
I was able to do this on a rather small budget using left over and demo materials from many jobs.
The one thing you want to do is install receptacles liberally. The code requires at least every 12' along the floor line. Allowing a 6 foot cord to reach any receptacle. You are also required to install a receptacle in any 2 foot wall space that might be separated by door frames or the like. You will need to look at your conditions and may want them closer, I do. I over killed the bed rooms with dedicated circuits to each and spacing receptacles at about 6 to 8 feet depending on the wall layout. Nothing worse then needing an extension cord to power something up.
My preference in a shop type garage is to install as many receptacles as you can afford. Every 4 foot or less around the wall . I prefer more above work benches than wall space I stay away from double duplex or "quads" above the bench because power supplies and transformer always kill the access to the adjacent outlet. So two separate duplex close together works better for me. I like to keep a couple dedicated circuits at the bench.
I wired each wall with two circuits in an alternating pattern. Here I also like to use conduit so I can change things up just my preference but not necessary.
Romex roughed in the wall is fine, I would just stay away from surface mounting romex.
I am just telling you its OK to install more receptacles and more circuits if you wish. Its your home and you can do what your budget will allow. Just be mindful of the minimum code requirements. Also keep in mind the cost of arc fault breakers which are required in all bedrooms, living space, dining, dens and the like.

 

[BHR4CE1]

I was accused of over wiring my recent garage project, but I would do it the same if I did it again. I took this method when remodeling my home as well. Now I have no regrets and am so glad I did it. Here's a few pics, but check my garage build thread (below) for all pics.

 

[sberry]

In a house I put all the recepts on 12 and all the light/fans, smokes on 14.

 

[Speedy Petey]

most houses today are far underwired IMO

As far as new homes are concerned I'd have to strongly disagree.
Newer codes mandate quite a bit of wiring and receptacles, unless of course you're talking about a cheaply wired tract home. Even then, code minimum allows for quite a bit.

 

[Speedy Petey]

I put 30 receptacles in my garage and 13 lights. The lights all get used all the time. I'm sure that quite a few of my receptacles have never been used, but I don't know which ones have gone unused.

I hope you are not talking about standard 15 or 20A receptacle devices on a 30A circuit.

This is a clear code violation that a decent inspector should have caught immediately.

 

[Speedy Petey]

In a house I put all the recepts on 12 and all the light/fans, smokes on 14.

THIS is the common sense way of doing it.

When you have to terminate the switches and dimmers on #12 you'll bed sorry you used it.
There is absolutely NO deficiency in using #14 for lighting, smokes, and even some receptacle circuits in a home.

 

[Gary S]

I hope you are not talking about standard 15 or 20A receptacle devices on a 30A circuit.

This is a clear code violation that a decent inspector should have caught immediately.

30 receptacles, not 30 amp receptacles. Nobody I know has any use for a 30 amp 120v receptacle. The only 30 amp circuits I have are 240v.

 

[Speedy Petey]

30 receptacles, not 30 amp receptacles. Nobody I know has any use for a 30 amp 120v receptacle. The only 30 amp circuits I have are 240v.

Sorry. Man vision.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

I'm the OP. Our 1800sf ranch built in 1992 or 1993 is nice. Custom built for the owner on a infill lot in a semi-rural area (0.920 acre/40,000sf). Steep roof with extra gables facing street, some intricate brick work, cathedral ceiling in the one step down sunken LR. Call casement windows. So some extra money was spent.

But here is where they skimped:

1. One (1) outlet in the garage tied to the GFCI in the main bath (15amp).
2. The single ceiling light (on a pull chain) in the garage, the outside lights on the front of the garage, the outside light on the garage side door, and the garage door opener are on a separate circuit (15amp I think).
3. There is single outlet in the basement, just below the main panel.
4. I think the outlet for the water softener was put in by the softener installer, its attached a floor joist directly above the water softner.
5. There are five lights scatter throughout the unfinished basement on pull chains (except for one at the bottom of the stairs on the three-way switch at the top of the stairs). Each of the five scatter lights on pull chains are tied to the first floor circuit above!
6. In the garage, code of course required sheet rock only what ... 3 or 4 feet away from the living area. That is exactly where the stopped the rock, the mudding, the taping, the sanding, and the spraying. So the garage is half finished! A previous owner, maybe original, put unfaced batt insulation between the garage trusses bottom cords that is held up with chicken wire (I can't make this sh** up!) and between the open studs and them put poly over it ... which has been ripped and torn.

I've wired in one double boxes with four 15amp outlets (with GFCI) using 12ga wire. It are tied to the 15 amp circuit in the ceiling of the garage, later I will run two new 20amp circuits from the main panel in the basement, into the garage, up the garage wall using conduit, into the ceiling, and to the new circuit above (I'll replace the outlets then). One of the two new 20 amps circuits will be for this new group of outlets and the flourescent lights I'm installing on the ceiling. The second 20amp circuit will serve new outlets above a long bench and three or four new outlets for the bench grinder, drill press, parts washer, and whatever else I collect.

The township just agreed to increase the size of outbuildings in my zoning area from 600sf to 1,000sf ... is that is the next project after I get the garage straightened out.

 

[IDASHO]

30 receptacles, not 30 amp receptacles. Nobody I know has any use for a 30 amp 120v receptacle. The only 30 amp circuits I have are 240v.

My plasma cutter uses one.

 

[theoldwizard1]

But here is where they skimped:

1. One (1) outlet in the garage tied to the GFCI in the main bath (15amp).

Cheap, stupid !

2. The single ceiling light (on a pull chain) in the garage, the outside lights on the front of the garage, the outside light on the garage side door, and the garage door opener are on a separate circuit (15amp I think).

Except for the pull chain fixture, no too bad.

3. There is single outlet in the basement, just below the main panel.

I hope there are a lot of empty slot in the panle !

4. I think the outlet for the water softener was put in by the softener installer, its attached a floor joist directly above the water softner.

Typical

5. There are five lights scatter throughout the unfinished basement on pull chains (except for one at the bottom of the stairs on the three-way switch at the top of the stairs). Each of the five scatter lights on pull chains are tied to the first floor circuit above!

Sigh. More cheap, stupid.

I've wired in one double boxes with four 15amp outlets (with GFCI) using 12ga wire. It are tied to the 15 amp circuit in the ceiling of the garage, later I will run two new 20amp circuits from the main panel in the basement, into the garage, up the garage wall using conduit, into the ceiling, and to the new circuit above (I'll replace the outlets then).

Although I can not recall ever seeing anything with a 120v 20A plug, I am a fan of using 120V 20A receptacles, if the wiring/breaker supports it.

 

[jeffmoss26]

BHR4CE1, nice stuff! Where does all the cat 5 cable go to?

 

[Highbeam]

30 receptacles, not 30 amp receptacles. Nobody I know has any use for a 30 amp 120v receptacle. The only 30 amp circuits I have are 240v.

Just abour every RV trailer uses a 30 amp 120 volt plug. I will be putting one in my garage so I can keep the RV plugged in and charging or if I need to run the AC or other RV appliances.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Just abour every RV trailer uses a 30 amp 120 volt plug. I will be putting one in my garage so I can keep the RV plugged in and charging or if I need to run the AC or other RV appliances.

An RV is one of the very few things that will have a 30A-125V plug and cord.
A 30A RV receptacle is proprietary to RV's. It is called a "travel trailer receptacle".

Bigger RV's will have a 50A-125/250V plug and cord.