T 1-11 vs. Hardie Panel vertical siding?

[Andy Griffith]

Looking at constructing a 12 x 16 building (shed) on 4x6 skids, on our rural mostly undeveloped property.

I've been reading some of the back threads on T 1-11, and pricing out materials for the build. I like the look of hardieplank better than sheeting but I'd rather not mess with the additional materials and work involved with planks, and for where this shed is located appearance is not critical.

My experience with T 1-11 plywood as been pretty good. It lasted 40+ years on our first home. Not sure if current T 1-11 plywood can last as long as the old stuff or not. Curious if anybody has had experience with this hardie plank fiber cement type vertical siding?

While in Lowes I found Hardie Panel vertical siding which looks to be a clone of the T 1-11 in terms of appearance.
Pricing.
Hardi Panel = 28.52 per sheet (sierra 8 style)
T 1-11 (plywood, .578) = 36.08 per sheet

Some Hardi panel specs.
- Comes primed, must be painted within 180 days
- Can't be stained
- Recommend power driven nails
- can be installed over wood framing/studs up to 24" OC
- galvanized or stainless fasteners required
- 30 year non-prorated, transferable, limited warranty

http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner/products_siding_hardiepanelSiding.py?search_zipcode=retail
http://www.jameshardie.com/pdf/install/hardiepanel-hz10.pdf

 

[5lima30]

I would go with the Hardi-panel for a variety of reasons.
1. No wood rot.
2. Takes paint better and uses less paint.
3. Fire resistant (ask a firefighter what he thinks)
4. Termite and insect resistant.

 

[Daniel Dudley]

Hardi panel is a good product, but the dust from cutting it is very bad to breathe. Gotta take precautions. Those panels are also very heavy for their size.

 

[Norcal]

Hardi-Panel gets my vote, IMHO takes paint better then wood too.

 

[slip knot]

IMO T1-11 is a temporary siding. It will start to delaminate eventually then it looks like hell and nothing other than replacing can fix it.

Hardi is a permanent solution but it does have its issues. Its brittle and will crack if flexed too much. As mentioned above, cutting it does cause a lot of dust. If you install it without a backer it will get holed fairly easy. I always install Hardi over plywood. 1/2 in minimum. Leave expansion joints at every joint and it will lay flat. They make a H molding for the seems ,thats plastic, and I've used it before but I'm not real enthused about this. I would prefer a seam filler that was at least as robust as the Hardi product.

Can you tell I really like Hardi?

 

[yellow-harley]

The last T 1-11 I used on our antique mall lasted 14 years. I covered it with vinyl siding this past summer.

 

[slip knot]

The last T 1-11 I used on our antique mall lasted 14 years. I covered it with vinyl siding this past summer.

As I said. T1-11 is temporary!

 

[AndysMBgarage]

I dont know if it's available over there but I used this for the top of my garage because of great trade reviews and it will now also be used on our extension.
http://scyon.com.au/linea.html

 

[Chaz]

I used hardiepanel and hardie batten boards on my house/barn. Love it.
Its a ****** to cut and heavy as hell. It is REALLY nice looking and permanent. I've used T 1 11 in the past . Paint doesnt stay on as long, and the wood checks and splits.

 

[tonycastec]

If you apply over plywood(and I do):
1.You need p.t. battens and rain-screen to ventilate the back of it. Read the Hardie instructions for more.
2. Use p.t. plywood as the backing because you don't want the plywood to fail before the Hardie does.
Hardie fiber cement is a fantastic product!

 

[Andy Griffith]

Thanks for the replies. Plywood as a backing, guess I'm going to have to revise the budget.

How long have the hardie panels been in use? Just wondering if there is years worth of data as to it's actual longevity?

I do not have a portable tablesaw to take to the build site so I'll be using a skilsaw to rip the panels. I am told there is a 'hardie blade' that is used on a miter saw to cut the hardie planks. Can one get a 7-1/4 hardie blade for a skilsaw as well?

 

[IDASHO]

Hardipanel IS rated for shear.

And for a small structure like yours, I wouldnt hesitate to install the hardi right to the studs.

Dont bother with the expensive cement siding specific blades. Just get a box of cheap carbide framing blades, and a few paper masks

 

[Crusty Nut]

Hardi panels right on the studs on my shop. Bats over the seams. Above 8 ft, plywood backer with hardi lap siding. I'll post a pic after I paint.

 

[fury9]

IMO T1-11 is a temporary siding. It will start to delaminate eventually then it looks like hell and nothing other than replacing can fix it.

Hardi is a permanent solution but it does have its issues. Its brittle and will crack if flexed too much. As mentioned above, cutting it does cause a lot of dust. If you install it without a backer it will get holed fairly easy. I always install Hardi over plywood. 1/2 in minimum. Leave expansion joints at every joint and it will lay flat. They make a H molding for the seems ,thats plastic, and I've used it before but I'm not real enthused about this. I would prefer a seam filler that was at least as robust as the Hardi product.

Can you tell I really like Hardi?

the new thing is approx. 6"x10" aluminum flashing behind the seams, I actually saw it yesterday in a kit (15x20 shed)I'm building for a customer

 

[slghmmr88]

I use fiber cement shears to cut my hardi lap siding and after all the times I have used a circular saw I was dreading the cuts till I got these shears.

 

[djkeev]

T1-11 is a time proven poor siding choice. Delaminates, rots and in general looks like **** in 15 years or so!

I'd go with the Hardie siding, at least it isn't yet a proven poor choice!

Dave

 

[JimVonBaden]

T1-11 is a time proven poor siding choice. Delaminates, rots and in general looks like **** in 15 years or so!

I'd go with the Hardie siding, at least it isn't yet a proven poor choice!

Dave

Assuming similar quality, and since Hardy Boards have been around a LONG time, it would be safe to ASSume that Hardy panels are solid and long lasting.

Jim

 

[Red05GT]

We recently did a project using the Hardie Sierra panels and also the stucco panels.
We used a 4" diamond blade, about $ 20 in a side grinder. Generates plenty of dust
for sure. We went to Hardie's website for tips on installation. IIRC they reccomend
double studs at joints if not using sheathing. We just used 7/16" osb, house wrap
and then hung the siding. Paint is a lot easier to apply to the Hardie than to T-111,
uses less, and will last a lot longer. Quality of T-111 can be sketchy at times with
boat patches and veneer voids that start delaminating with any moisture migration.

 

[IDASHO]

T1-11 is a time proven poor siding choice. Delaminates, rots and in general looks like **** in 15 years or so!

It isnt that cut and dry.

Its plywood. And not all plywood is created equal.

GOOD T1-11 will last 50+ years. And good T1-11 is Auraco-ply. Its also VERY expensive, as in almost $50 per sheet.

Junk plywood will not last. You get what you pay for.

But as I say, it is plywood. So assuming you dont have glue/delam issues, the paint you use will certainly determine the life of the panel.

The T1-11 siding on my place as seen in this thread is 40 years old.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111545&highlight=gacodeck

Not exactly in the shape you say it should be.

 

[djkeev]

The installation tips suggest that this isn't a structural product, that either sheathing or bracing is required.

Idasho, Sorry, your experience is the exception to the rule, at least in the North East, T1-11 generally does not last that long and look so good!


dave

 

[sselander]

Hardi-Panel gets my vote.

My current house is sided with Hardi-Plank with the baked on finish.
House was built in 2005 and still looks great. Azek trim also.

My parents house has T1-11 that is now 42 years old. (The old stuff was way better than what they sell now)

They have to wash it with a TSP/bleach mixture from time to time.

Here is what 42 year T-111 in New England looks like:

 

[WQ59B]

Have T1-11 on a NYState house built in 1970. Stained every 5 years or so, it's still in great shape, but I put a lot of stock in the above comment "(The old stuff was way better than what they sell now)".

That said, I would absolutely use Hardie product instead.

 

[IDASHO]

Idasho, Sorry, your experience is the exception to the rule, at least in the North East...

I was hoping to get you around to that.

How is the climate there? More specifically, how is the HUMIDITY?

I have found that the structural integrity of T1-11 is VERY climate sensitive due to the glue make-up.

The worst is dry heat. The stuff just puckers and de-lams in just a few years. Paint or no paint.

Extreme humidity creates a bond problem between paint and panel, exposing raw plys to the elements. Then rot sets in.

Mild humidity works well. The glues seem to remain stable. Add a quality paint and you will get a LONG life out of it.

 

[hardiexpert]

Hardiplank siding is a very good siding. It is very durable. It resists fire and termite infestation. If you go for style, Hardiplank can be cut and painted like wood siding. I suggest you read this for tips.

 

[ryaninmichigan]

LP Smartside it has a 50 year warranty. Looks like T1-11

 

[trbomax]

T1-11 is a perfectly acceptible product if its installed and finished correctly,but it has to be the real plywood stuff,not the chipboard ****.Our whole house is t1-11,glued and fastened with ss ring shanks. It is very important to apply an adhesive on all the lap seams and the bottom. We kept it 24" away from the ground by useing metal on the first 24". It also needs to be stained with a good anti fungus stain/sealer. We used wood guard,2 coats and reapply every 5 yrs.So far it looks as good as new and its spent 15 yrs in the nasty northern mi winters.

 

[Mandres]

Are you sure you got the pricing correct? I can't imagine T1-11 ever being more expensive than Hardy panels. Around here, you can get Lowe's cabinet grade plywood for $40/sheet. T1-11 was like $15/sheet last time I looked, and that was the only reason anyone would consider using it instead of fiber cement.

If those prices are accurate for your area then there's absolutely no reason to even think about using T1-11.

 

[Falcon67]

My HardiPanels ran $30/each. LP SmartSide panels were $25~27 IIRC. I used Hardi for covering the sides of the shop but used LP for trim and such. Cheaper in 1x4 lengths and easier to cut, works well enough.

 

[-Brent-]

Something that is not being metioned is location. In the Northeast T 1-11 won't last as long as in dryer climates. The same is true for the desert heat, T 1-11 won't hold up as well there, either.

It's not a terrible product, it's just that wood has limitations and idisyncrasies to deal with.

 

[trbomax]

Are you sure you got the pricing correct? I can't imagine T1-11 ever being more expensive than Hardy panels. Around here, you can get Lowe's cabinet grade plywood for $40/sheet. T1-11 was like $15/sheet last time I looked, and that was the only reason anyone would consider using it instead of fiber cement.

If those prices are accurate for your area then there's absolutely no reason to even think about using T1-11.

I bought 9 sheets yesterday for the wainscoat in my clean room,$28.95/ sheet at Lowes,the lumberyard where I usually deal wanted $58.nancy and I did have to sort thru 30 sheets to get 9 that dont have any patches though.The patches would be fine on an exterior,but this will be stained and varnished and is inside.

edit) this is for 8" oc,5/8",not the flimsy 3/8" ****.

 

[olytdi]

My house is sided with t-111 that was installed in 1972. It's been painted twice since original instal. Is holding up great. No delam, rot, etc., although I must divulge that it is cedar. 40 years and going strong in the rainiest region in the continental US -- Western Washington.

Not dissing the hardy plank as I would consider that when re-siding. Just providing info.

 

[Andy Griffith]

I bought 9 sheets yesterday for the wainscoat in my clean room,$28.95/ sheet at Lowes,the lumberyard where I usually deal wanted $58.nancy and I did have to sort thru 30 sheets to get 9 that dont have any patches though.The patches would be fine on an exterior,but this will be stained and varnished and is inside.
edit) this is for 8" oc,5/8",not the flimsy 3/8" ****.

Yikes, talk about a pricing spread.

I'm going to have the local lumberyard (as local as it gets around here anyway) give me a bid for the material list on this shed. They will pick and deliver but damn, if the price is going to be that much more I may just have to suffer through sorting and pulling my own order at HD (no lowes there). I built a large deck a few years ago and pulled my own order at HD. It took one whole day to find enough lumber that was actually useable.

 

[trbomax]

The hd here didnt have any of the plywood t1-11,just the flake board **** and it was around 26$.No matter where you buy it you should sort thru it,even if you dont care about the plugs, a lot of it sometimes will have broken or split lap edges.

 

[kert]

I was debating between LP Smart-Panel and Fiber-Cement. Ended up pricing metal and the panels came out about the same. Trim is more expensive, but doesn't need to be painted and the panels are much easier to carry than wood or fiber-cement, and it doesn't need to be painted.

 

[carhunter]

I used a panel on our shed that was a competitor to smart side. It comes in primed 4x8 sheets and has a rustic knotty woodgrain finish.
It was $18 a sheet on sale at lowes and worked great. Can't find it on their website now though.

Similar to this

http://www.lowes.com/pd_15601-132-2...L=?Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=

 

[BillK]

GOOD T1-11 will last 50+ years. And good T1-11 is Auraco-ply. Its also VERY expensive, as in almost $50 per sheet.

Exactly correct plus the installation location and other factors make a big difference.

The T111 on my attached garage looks pretty much like new and the house is 34 years old. I have only painted it once and that was a color change probably 20 years ago. It is on the gable end (front) of the house and also under a walkway, so it gets very little moisture.

On the other hand, the T111 on the sides of my 25 year old detached garage is starting to seriously fall apart along the bottom. This is because of a bad design decision when I built the garage that left a very small overhang and a lot of water running off the roof and splahing up on the siding. The same exact siding looks like new on the front and back (gable ends) of the garage, with a 14" overhang and very little water falling off. Also has only been painted once.

So there are a lot of factors involved with how long it will last.

 

[Big Bad Dad]

We constructed enclosures around the dumpsters in an apartment complex my employer owns. Did the sides with hardi panel over treated plywood. No problems at all. However, to save weight, we did the gates with just hardie panel attached to the framing with no backer board. It didn't take long for all the little "ninja's" in the 'hood to figure out they were tough guys and could kick and punch holes in it easily!

 

[gahrajmahal]

Like IDASHO my house has T1-11 that is 40+ years old. We want to cover it with Hardi board because of the paint issues. After 10 years its time to paint again. We just could not find a color we liked. Mostly tan colors, green, red and blue. Would like grey. The quote here for a 2000 sq ft. home $25,000 plus.

 

[geezer48]

dont use t 111 i put it on my barn,primed&painted.2 yr. it split& cracket

 

[beerdog]

Chaz
You need to throw up a thread on that cool looking house barn.