Interesting LED product coming soon?

[mdavis]

I'm told end of June for this one:
http://www.cree.com/lighting/products/indoor/industrial/cs18

Over 100 lumens per Watt.

...and unlike the other series, it doesn't need to be embedded into the ceiling.

So far, this is at the top of my list...Probably $500+ for the 8' version linked above...

Opinions?

I really like the lack of UV, no cold weather issues, no flicker, and safety for LED for my shop project.

Obviously, no affiliation. Regards, -mark

 

[Teken]

I'm told end of June for this one:
http://www.cree.com/lighting/products/indoor/industrial/cs18

Over 100 lumens per Watt.

...and unlike the other series, it doesn't need to be embedded into the ceiling.

So far, this is at the top of my list...Probably $500+ for the 8' version linked above...

Opinions?

I really like the lack of UV, no cold weather issues, no flicker, and safety for LED for my shop project.

Obviously, no affiliation. Regards, -mark

First Off: A member since 2009, and you just posted your first thread!

On Topic: I really hope these devices are not going to be $500.** as the ROI would take forever to be returned. I do however like the fact they put out so much light. But, the power consumption I was expecting was around 25 watts and not 65-75 watts.

But, given the overall length of 8 feet and the output that is still pretty impressive!

Teken . . .

 

[Zick]

I always think of LED as saving power but at 65-75 watts their no better than my T8's except if their giving off a true 8000 lumens vs I believe roughtly 3000 lumens for T8's.

Now these might be good if you need a lot of light in a small area.

 

[mdavis]

First Off: A member since 2009, and you just posted your first thread!

I've been lurking for a while. Working on turning a 3-car garage into a wood shop...machines are on pallets (Felder and Minimax stuff!). 3-phase is going in soon -- have a ay phase converter. Had an acrylic coat (100mils) put down. Painted half the wall grey.

On Topic: I really hope these devices are not going to be $500.** as the ROI would take forever to be returned. I do however like the fact they put out so much light. But, the power consumption I was expecting was around 25 watts and not 65-75 watts.

But, given the overall length of 8 feet and the output that is still pretty impressive!

Teken . . .

Yeah...I'd really like to do LED...but the price is going to be crazy. I'm not thinking of this as a value prop with energy savings, but rather as a way to get the flicker out, cold start issues out, brightness, safety in a shop, etc...

I read a bunch of other threads on this forum on LED and none of the products struck me as particularly superior to the others...I know a lot of folks like the T8HOs from Lithonia.

-mark

 

[oldgoat]

Amazon has some 4ft LED bulbs on their site:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002P3FQI6/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[mdavis]

Amazon has some 4ft LED bulbs on their site:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002P3FQI6/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Those 2043WHs are about 2,000 lumens per bulb.

The 4' version of the Cree is 2x that @ 4,000 lumens: http://www.cree.com/lighting/products/indoor/industrial/cs14

I actually think there is value to that...I will have to wire less stuff and have fewer fixtures assuming the dispersion is good enough on the Cree lights.

What level of light is commonly spec'ed for woodworking shops? I've heard 1.5 -2w/sq ft..I'm at 700sq ft. But the LED watts don't translate very well...I'd rather see a ft candles measurement or something like that. 100 ft candles??

-mark

 

[Teken]

I've been lurking for a while. Working on turning a 3-car garage into a wood shop...machines are on pallets (Felder and Minimax stuff!). 3-phase is going in soon -- have a ay phase converter. Had an acrylic coat (100mils) put down. Painted half the wall grey.



Yeah...I'd really like to do LED...but the price is going to be crazy. I'm not thinking of this as a value prop with energy savings, but rather as a way to get the flicker out, cold start issues out, brightness, safety in a shop, etc...

I read a bunch of other threads on this forum on LED and none of the products struck me as particularly superior to the others...I know a lot of folks like the T8HOs from Lithonia.

-mark

In terms of safety I have to agree. With respect to being green that makes sense if its not your direction as it sounds.

The little amount of heat output would also help those who live in hot climates. I am going to sit and wait to see what the price is on the street before diving in.

At $500.** bones that is too rich for this kid . . .

Teken . . .

 

[jeff000]

That 8' Cree LED fixture will be $2500+


A T5 fixture that looks like that is around $1000.


Do not buy those LED tube replacements for T8, the light output is garbage and you have huge ballast losses so your total watts used is about the same as a T8 tube.

Electra LED LS series fixtures make a great replacement for for T8, but at ~250 per 4' of T8 replacement it's not so cost effective. But it is if you are installing them in a cooler or freezer, like at the grocery store. Electra LED spot lights are great too, although I can't remember the cost.

<--- Electrician, I do lots of LED retrofits. The only ones I have at home are a custom fixture over my fish tank, under cabinet, and in my outside pot lights are par38 bulbs from Costco, 20 bucks each, I love installing these, although they are not quite up to enough light to replace the pot lights in my house yet.

 

[Random Guy]

I've been lurking for a while. Working on turning a 3-car garage into a wood shop...machines are on pallets (Felder and Minimax stuff!). 3-phase is going in soon -- have a ay phase converter. Had an acrylic coat (100mils) put down. Painted half the wall grey.



Yeah...I'd really like to do LED...but the price is going to be crazy. I'm not thinking of this as a value prop with energy savings, but rather as a way to get the flicker out, cold start issues out, brightness, safety in a shop, etc...

I read a bunch of other threads on this forum on LED and none of the products struck me as particularly superior to the others...I know a lot of folks like the T8HOs from Lithonia.

-mark

Just a couple of things about fluorescent:
First, with modern electronic ballasts, the lamps don't flicker. Also, unless you have cheap ballasts, they should be silent. Second, modern ballasts can fire the lamps at 20F - 0F, depending on the ballasts.

 

[mdavis]

Just a couple of things about fluorescent:
First, with modern electronic ballasts, the lamps don't flicker. Also, unless you have cheap ballasts, they should be silent. Second, modern ballasts can fire the lamps at 20F - 0F, depending on the ballasts.

I understand the ballasts have improved over the POS T12s I have in my home that were installed when it was built in 2005. However, I still value the safety, bulb life, lack of mercury, and potential lumen advantages of LED. Also note the Cree version dims.

So who makes the best 8' LEDs that are available now?

-mark

 

[mdavis]

That 8' Cree LED fixture will be $2500+


A T5 fixture that looks like that is around $1000.


Do not buy those LED tube replacements for T8, the light output is garbage and you have huge ballast losses so your total watts used is about the same as a T8 tube.

Electra LED LS series fixtures make a great replacement for for T8, but at ~250 per 4' of T8 replacement it's not so cost effective. But it is if you are installing them in a cooler or freezer, like at the grocery store. Electra LED spot lights are great too, although I can't remember the cost.

<--- Electrician, I do lots of LED retrofits. The only ones I have at home are a custom fixture over my fish tank, under cabinet, and in my outside pot lights are par38 bulbs from Costco, 20 bucks each, I love installing these, although they are not quite up to enough light to replace the pot lights in my house yet.

What makes you think $2500? I talked to Cascade wholesale about the product and they claim it should retail in the $500-ish area per light.

-mark

 

[jeff000]

What makes you think $2500? I talked to Cascade wholesale about the product and they claim it should retail in the $500-ish area per light.

-mark

Did cascade say why they think 500ish?
Just going off what other manufactures charge for similar lights. I installed fixtures very close a few weeks ago, 8' and LED, hanging, looked great. But were 3200 bucks each. I'll have to look back into my specs to tell you the brand though.


500 bucks doesn't even get you a nice 8' T5 hanging fixture.

 

[mdavis]

Did cascade say why they think 500ish?
Just going off what other manufactures charge for similar lights. I installed fixtures very close a few weeks ago, 8' and LED, hanging, looked great. But were 3200 bucks each. I'll have to look back into my specs to tell you the brand though.


500 bucks doesn't even get you a nice 8' T5 hanging fixture.

They had to estimate retail pricing and margins, given that they are a wholesaler.

-mark

 

[coolreed]

Looks like a great product. LED lighting is revolutionizing the lighting industry.
There will be alot of new LED products soon and the costs should be reasonable.
I would certainly like to upgrade to an LED lighting system and replace the florescents I have.

 

[jeff000]

They had to estimate retail pricing and margins, given that they are a wholesaler.

-mark

'Wow lighting' here, the wholesaler I use for lighting figured they were going to come in at around 900 per 4'. They have an order for 250 of the 8' coming from the first shipment. He said as soon as they have pricing I'll get a call.

Said GE has a similar fixture coming out, that is like their 8' T8's with the occupancy sensors built in, so as you are walking around the light will cascade and follow you around. Pricing for these will be around 2500 for an 8', for comparison, their T8 that does this is 1700 per fixture.

If they are 500 bucks though, and put out as much light as they are saying, they will be back ordered to oblivion.

 

[jeff000]

Looks like a great product. LED lighting is revolutionizing the lighting industry.
There will be alot of new LED products soon and the costs should be reasonable.
I would certainly like to upgrade to an LED lighting system and replace the florescents I have.

Yes, the LED pot light stuff that is now out and just getting released is finally a real replacement for incandescent bulbs.

The T8/T5 replacement stuff is still a ways out, T5HO being cheap and easy for a lot of light will be hard to replace.

Love that I am seeing more and more LED street and parking lot lighting.

 

[frankush]

The ballast that's spec'd on that fixture is an easy $200+. Don't get your hopes up on this being any where near $500 per fixture.

 

[Ikaika]

Cree CS14 $270.00 CS18 $570.00 4 Week delivery

 

[Big-Foot]

Sweet but..... Cha-CHING!!!!!

 

[-JP]

I would not recommend buying any fixture from CREE. You can get a higher quality product for less money from any of the large companies that have been able to survive in the lighting business. Lithonia, Cooper, Williams are just a few of the big boys out there.

Cree may not even be around in the future. Their corporate leadership has led them down the path of destruction. They are only known for being the first to develop a consistently reliable LED. Every fixture manufacturer purchased their LED's and made them a fortune. But the game has changed as all the big boys are making their own LED's now and with that came the beginning of the end as Cree decided to start stamping out their own fixtures to hold their LED's. Problem is that Cree has never made light fixtures before and are competing against giants in this very, very, competitive business.

So, their fixtures have issues and are overpriced. They will probably be out of business in the next couple of years. You can get a better product for less money today from a company who will be around for years to come.

JP

I

 

[gatchel]

Interesting... All of my Cree fixtures (20 or so) are well engineered and work very well.

 

[SteveP1001]

I like the idea of the recessed cr14 lights. They also seem to be IC rated which solves a problem I have found while looking for recessed troffers of that size. They are some what spendy though.
http://www.alconlighting.com/cree-cr14-44-watt-1-4-led-architectural-troffer-3500k-step-dimming.html

If someone knows of a better less expensive light out there, I would like to hear about it. Otherwise I need to start saving my pennies.

 

[JDishong]

CREE is known for there process/technology capability, not for the fixture. It is likely that CREE fabricates the LEDs for most of the industries "fixtures".

So if CREE dominates the LED technology, I would say theat CREE holds the trump card.

 

[-JP]

CREE is being squeezed by the new competition. Some big players were not happy with the business practices of CREE so they started making their own LED's.

One of these new competitors is Philips and CREE pissed them off when they started making light fixtures. Philips owns several large light fixture companies and they use to purchase their LED's from CREE but not now.

 

[gatchel]

When Philips can produce a light better than the CR6 or LR6, I'll believe it. Right now the only thing I have seen in the consumer market is those ugly *** Yellow Phosphor LED bulbs, Which ironically, they work quite well.

 

[Familyof8kids]

I PM some of the largest lighting projects in the US. All are ROI projects so LED is not used in many applications due to poor paybacks. We will install the LED 4' lamps in areas such as above machines that cannot be taken offline so maintenance is not approved above the machine. The lamps are installed in normal ballast fixtures but of course they only have power wires to one end of the lamp since LED is powered from one end only and ballast are removed. We install LED dock lights since we MFG our own and they are bullet proof. LED exit lights. LED tower fixtures for flight awareness. Again to help reduce maintenance in hard to access areas.
With the amount of fixtures that we install I have my choice at any technology for free. I installed T5 HO 4' 3 lamp Vapor Tight fixtures in my garage. Yes they are set for High Bay use. Most people have no idea that more than 50% of the fluorescent lamp is being reflected from the mirror or white backplate. If it gets dirty then you are loosing major lumens. That is reason I selected Vapor Tight so my nasty door left open garage will always have a crisp appearance. LED tubes are not 360 degree output. They are direct down and do not spread out as it's cousin fluorescent. I am not knocking LED just need to explain a few drawbacks and down the road it will be king.

 

[index1489]

Hate to bump a old thread, but where did that guy find them for $270 (4' version) I have been looking cheapest I found was 350 from earthled

 

[aar0s]

Here are some 4 foot bulbs on Amazon for 33 bucks. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002P3FQI6/?tag=atomicindus08-20
I think you have to take out the ballast to get them to work on your old light, im sure someone can better fill us in on that, but 33 bucks is better than 350.

 

[ForceFed70]

Average lumens/watt for T5 or T8 is in the 90 lumens/watt neighborhood.

With these fixtures coming in at 100 lumens/watt you are getting very little efficiency gain with a much bigger upfront investment. The average person/garage would never see an ROI with this lighting.

 

[Engineer61]

The spec that I liked the most was the CRI (color Rendition Index) of 90 - that means the color balance matches sunlight to within 90% across the range of visible light. Most CFL are 85 or lower, most HO tubes are in the 70's. Not too thrilled with color temp of 3500 or 4000, I prefer the sunlight bulbs with color temps of 5000 - 5500.
What all this means is that the color of your paint job as seen in your garage is going to be much closer to what it will look like outside than with HO lighting, and if Cree would just raise that color temp up it would be an even better match.

 

[ForceFed70]

Standard T5 and T8 lamps have a CRI of approx 85. But you can also get specialty lamps with a much better CRI.

Not sure about CFL but comparing CFL (retrofit lamp) to a non-retrofit fixture of any type isn't really a fair comparison.

 

[Big-Foot]

Living out in the country, I am really interested in LED lighting as I understand LEDs have no UV emissions, thereby they do not attract bugs!!!

 

[Teken]

Living out in the country, I am really interested in LED lighting as I understand LEDs have no UV emissions, thereby they do not attract bugs!!!

Are these intended to be placed on the outside?

Teken . . .

 

[Big-Foot]

Are these intended to be placed on the outside?

Teken . . .

No on the inside for the most part although a couple superbright floodlights would be nice outside...

I'm thinking about those nice 85 degree evenings where every bug in the world descends on me out in my shop because I have the lights on and the doors open...

 

[Teken]

No on the inside for the most part although a couple superbright floodlights would be nice outside...

I'm thinking about those nice 85 degree evenings where every bug in the world descends on me out in my shop because I have the lights on and the doors open...

Come on, that my friend is just nature! You of all people should appreciate these little gifts God has bestowed upon you!

Teken . . .

 

[Big-Foot]

Come on, that my friend is just nature! You of all people should appreciate these little gifts God has bestowed upon you!

Teken . . .

Yeah, especially those little kamakaze bastards that fly right into your eyes...

 

[aar0s]

Living out in the country, I am really interested in LED lighting as I understand LEDs have no UV emissions, thereby they do not attract bugs!!!

This and the CFL's dimming to nothing in the winter was two of the reasons I switched the lights on my garage.