T8 Vs T12

[Dragster Racer]

I was at Menards looking, and think I want to go with the 4 bulb fixture. If I understand correctly, the T8 is more efficient. What is the lums difference between the same T8 and T12 4 bulb fixture? Didn't seem to be as big of a difference in price of the fixtures as I expected. They even mentione T12HO's. I need an education.

 

[Fast Orange]

The biggest thing to keep in mind regarding the choice between T-8 and T-12 lamps is that the T-12s are being phased out of production within the next couple of years.The government's energy saving legislation will basically outlaw the production of T-12s after a certain date-(2010?).
IIRC,the lumens of the two types of lamps are pretty much equal for comparable length fixtures.For the most bang for the buck in flourescents,the current way to go is with
4' T-8s. If you have an open (unfinished)cieling or are hanging the fixtures down from the cieling,get industrial fixtures with reflectors.If you have a white finished cieling,use 2 lamp strip lights or even flange mounted troffer (recessed) fixtures.
There are several members here who have access to layout programs -maybe one of them can help you with placement of the fixtures. Be sure to go bright enough with the general lighting so you can work anywhere in the garage,then add additional lighting in close work areas on a separate switch.

George

 

[Jay H 237]

Is it just the fixtures being outlawed or are the replacement bulbs included too?

My basement and garage are all T12s.

 

[LoneGunman]

T-12's should'nt even be considered. If it were me I'd install 3 lamp T-5 fixtures. I'm not sure of the availability of the T-5 fixtures to the general public, meaning big box stores. Ours are purchased from electrical or lighting supply houses. If your garage is cold you may have to go with HO's no matter what lamp type you go with. Below is a very basic rundown of the T-5's.

Weve been using high bay T-5's in place of HID (metal halide ETC)lighting, I never thought a fluorescent could take the place of an HID fixture but they have. Way less money to run and way less heat.

http://www.servicelighting.com/library/light_bulbs_fluorescent_t5_lighting.cfm

 

[Coach James]

When I add new lights to my garage they will be t8. I think the light from t12's is lousy.

Coach

 

[kbs2244]

I never have paid any attention to those numbers.
I just bought 40 watt 4 foot bulbs.
Can I still do that?
I would guess that some of my fixtures are 30+ years old.

 

[mtwaterguy]

The biggest thing to keep in mind regarding the choice between T-8 and T-12 lamps is that the T-12s are being phased out of production within the next couple of years.The government's energy saving legislation will basically outlaw the production of T-12s after a certain date-(2010?).
IIRC,the lumens of the two types of lamps are pretty much equal for comparable length fixtures.For the most bang for the buck in flourescents,the current way to go is with
4' T-8s. If you have an open (unfinished)cieling or are hanging the fixtures down from the cieling,get industrial fixtures with reflectors.If you have a white finished cieling,use 2 lamp strip lights or even flange mounted troffer (recessed) fixtures.
There are several members here who have access to layout programs -maybe one of them can help you with placement of the fixtures. Be sure to go bright enough with the general lighting so you can work anywhere in the garage,then add additional lighting in close work areas on a separate switch.

George

Where do you get this info regarding a ban by 2010? Online I see that Australia is contemplating a ban but the only thing mentioning the US is a possible ban in San Francisco, but only for commercial applications.

 

[Coach James]

Incandescent bulbs will also be banned for sale in 2014.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59298

Coach

 

[Mr_fixit]

I've changed out all my t-12 ballasts for t-8 ballasts in my garage.
More light, , use less electricity, all lights now start at zero degrees.
The only con is that the wiring is different, and you have to modify the wiring slightly to the bulb holders.

I'd never suggest anyone buy t-12 bulbs if they're buying a new fixture.
Buy t-8's if you're buying new.

 

[jay50]

I've changed out all my t-12 ballasts for t-8 ballasts in my garage.
More light, , use less electricity, all lights now start at zero degrees.
The only con is that the wiring is different, and you have to modify the wiring slightly to the bulb holders.

I'd never suggest anyone buy t-12 bulbs if they're buying a new fixture.
Buy t-8's if you're buying new.

I've got 8 foot T12s in the shop; are T8s available in 8 footers?

 

[Dragster Racer]

Wow. this has been very helpful, and decicive! its a 40 by 40 with 15 ft ceilings, and metal white finished interior. Heated always. This is great.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I've got 8 foot T12s in the shop; are T8s available in 8 footers?

They make an 8 ft T8 fixture that uses four 4 ft bulbs. They are not quite end to end, rather they are angled, staggered and overlap slightly in the middle. 4 ft bulbs are much easier to work with and generally the most cost effective solution, with the widest variety of color rendition bulbs available.

Charles

 

[Aceman]

They make an 8 ft T8 fixture that uses four 4 ft bulbs. They are not quite end to end, rather they are angled, staggered and overlap slightly in the middle.

I've installed many strips that utilize four 4' bulbs end-to-end, no stagger or offset. You can find these everywhere(HD, Lowes, electrical supply houses, etc). I can't say I've ever seen that angled configuration you speak of?

But I agree with Charles, 8' strips with T8 841 bulbs is what I'd use. When replacement time comes bulbs are only a couple bucks each and ballasts are 15-20 dollars or so. I think the fixtures only draw 1-1.5 amps apiece.

 

[tolken4]

Any brand or model suggestions? Always wondered if this was a situation where the box store stuff was ok to use? Otherwise is that stuff cheap for a reason? Do you get anything by going to a specialty store? Or, is the box store stuff just fine for most applications?

 

[6768rogues]

Go with the T8s. At the school where I work, we replace 3 t12 fixtures with 2 t8s and have more light.

 

[tolken4]

??? See post above. Brand or type suggestions?

 

[gotta56forme]

My dad just bought and installed eight of the two-bulb T8 hanging fixtures with the electronic ballasts, from Menards. I think he paid about $20 for each fixture (only). He loves them already, as each fixture replaced a single 100w incandescent bulb. The improvement in light was considerable.

 

[66 GMC Truckin]

T-8 fixtures are awesome. Light output is amazing and no hum or flicker like the T12's can sometimes have. I just installed 22 of the 4 foot fixtures in my garage. I don't even have the walls sheeted yet and it is very bright in there with just the insulation showing. I bought cheap ones with cords and pullchains and then hardwired them and hardmounted them so that I can turn off individual 4 foot lights when I want to. I bought mine at Canadian Tire in Canada and they are made by Canarm. These will start in up to -25 C conditions without hum or flicker and will increase the light output as they warm up. Also T-8's have the electronic ballast with no release of PCB's or that tar smell like the T12's when they start to leak.

 

[Palmetto]

66GMC.

What color are those bulbs?

 

[TopBanana]

I started using T8 fixtures in my garage (installed 10) and Home Depot stopped carrying them. Anything else even close to the discontinued units in specs are 4 times the price! They replaced those T8 fixtures w/ a T12 unit that's the same price. I've been using the 6500K color T8 bulbs and they also have them for T12. I was going to finish the project with these T12 fixtures but now I'm leary. Problem is, anything else is going to increase the cost 4-5 times!!! Any thoughts?

 

[buening]

I bought the 8' T8 4-4' bulb units from Lowes. They are Utilitech brand, but I forget who they are a branch of. I believe the electronic ballasts were Sylvannia brand. I think they were around $35 for each 8' strip. They were higher than the $10 four foot strips that were on sale, but felt better about the T8 and the efficiency. I'm amazed at the small amount of T8 fixtures at my local Menards and Lowes. Apparently they haven't caught on at the box stores yet

 

[NRChopshop]

The phasing out of certain lamps varies from state to state. Individual state legislation will dictate the future use of lighting in new installations. It will be very difficult to phase them out all together, since millions of commercial signage, including Government owned, are lit with HO T12 lamps. It would be extremely expensive and time consuming to retrofit entire fixtures should a single lamp burnout. We do it all the time. The labor time involved is not cheap

you can look state by state here:
http://www.sylvania.com/Energy/RegulationsLegislation/StateProductRegulations/

 

[ddawg16]

T12 (40w) uses a standard ballast (transformer)
T8 (32w) uses the electronic ballast....

A T8 buld may work in a fixture for T12's....but it will most likely make the bulb look like its about to fail.

Here is one of many links regarding the issue of T12 lamps...

Engergy Policy of 1992

Basically, certain lamps may not be produced or imported....in other words, when the stock of cool white T40's runs out....no more.

I think you are seeing such great prices on t12 lamps and fixtures because they want to dump them....

 

[Dragster Racer]

I swapped out the T8 4100 temps with some 6500's. Wow! What a difference! Those 4100's are for the birds. I only had one fixture to do, but I am sold on the daylight bulbs now.

 

[Broken Tool]

T12 lamps will be available for the foreseeable future. The ballasts for t12 bulbs however will not be available after 2010.

See the quote below:

>>The U.S. Department of Energy published a final rule on Fluorescent Lamp Ballasts dated September 19, 2000. <<

>>The rule allows T12 ballasts for the covered lamp types to be manufactured for replacement purposes, but only until June 30, 2010. At that point, owners of commercial and industrial facilities who have not taken advantage of T8 retrofit programs will be unable to replace failed magnetic T12 ballasts. Even so, T12 replacement lamps will be available for commercial, industrial, and residential replacement for the foreseeable future.<<

The link to this info is:

http://www.chiefengineer.org/content/content_display.cfm/seqnumber_content/948.htm

 

[ddawg16]

Broken....now THAT is what I call good follow up with good information.....

I did a few searches because it seemed strange that you could still buy the lamps contrary to what the energy effeciency law stated.....what you posted explains it...thanks....

As soon as I can find that site again that listed the average effeciencies of all the types of lamps, I'll post it.

 

[eckertkid]

One other thing that you should be able to notice espically in cold situations is that the flickering of the t12 bulbs has been eliminated in the t8 bulbs. this is due to the harmonic frequencies of the modern ballasts

 

[canbug]

If you can get them, go for the t-5. You should be able to price them out at your local electrical wholesaler. Most wholesalers sell over the counter anymore at retail pricing.

Tim.

 

[Jack90210]

Bump, old thread.

I'm just starting to hear about t5 bulbs and fixtures. How do they stack up to t8s?

 

[Cryptic1911]

from what I've read, they are brighter, but usually need to be placed in higher ceilings, and they don't deal with very cold temps as well as t8's

 

[1Garageman]

In the past I have heard on this website that WalMart is the best play to buy t8's. Is that still true? I need lights for my garage.

 

[LightingGuru]

http://adventurelightingblog.wordpress.com/

This blog is based on commercial lighting, but the same principles apply. Basically T8 is a better, more energy efficient technology. You'll get similar or better light output, better color, better life ratings. Go to a lighting wholesaler, they actually know what they're talking about. And most of the time their prices are just as good as a big box store. Plus you'll get Commercial grade ballasts, not resi-grade.