AR-15 service rifles

[ejm1961Tbird]

Anyone here have an AR-15 National Match service rifle and regularly participate in high-power CMP competitions? I'm considering getting into the sport since I don't already have enough time-consuming, expensive hobbies!

 

[darkk]

Get your checkbook out...

 

[toyotadriver]

I do but not regularly. I have a RRA Match rifle. I'd like to get out there more often but sometimes lack of time is a problem.

I probably shoot 2-4 matches a year.

 

[ejm1961Tbird]

Cool. I am thinking about the RRA NM A2. Seems like a lot of people go with this rifle. Have you ever gone to the matches at Camp Perry?

 

[ddurango]

I used to participate quite a bit. I even went to Camp Perry one year. As posted, it is expensive if you get real serious about it. The rifle is the easy part. You will definitely need a coat, a spotting scope and stand, a mat, a cart, a glove, tons of little accessories, and pretty good eyesight.

AR-15s are cheaper than Garands and M-14s to shoot, and are, on average, more accurate and stay more accurate longer. Nearly everyone who is serious is shooting ARs, but Garands and M-14s are still a lot of fun.

Before you jump in whole hog, I strongly suggest hanging out at nationalmatch.com to help you select the right gear the first time. I have been really happy with Creedmoore for my coat, Kowa for my scope, John Hollinger's White Oak Precision for rifle uppers and parts, and would probably get my next scope stand from Giraud tool. It all adds up to some cash, but "buy once, cry once" really applies in high power. Ask me how I know....

You may want to shoot John C. Garand matches with a Garand first. You can start out with less cash outlay, and they are a lot more fun to me. A bit more laid back, and everyone should have a Garand anyway!

Oh, you'll need to get into reloading sooner or later. Factory ammo is just too pricey. Reloading soon became more fun than shooting to me, and you get a lot of satisfaction seeing your reloads shoot well.

Ddurango

 

[ejm1961Tbird]

Thanks for the good feedback. I got to shoot an M1 a couple of weeks ago at 200 and 300 yards, which was fun. I think I would like to go the AR-15 route for national match competitions. I need to go to the range and watch some people shoot at 600 yards and see if my eyes are still good enough for this distance. My vision is pretty good (with my glasses on!).

 

[Neppo1345]

May I suggest finding a local club affiliated with the Civilian Marksmanship Program and checking into their CMP matches.

They'll typically provide a rifle (M1), ammo, and instruction on the course of fire. It's a great way to get started in high power. My hometown club did them; usually a couple hours in a classroom and then range time. They went over proper shooting stance, sight picture, sight adjustment, mirage, rifle operation and cleaning. They also went over do's and don'ts of matches, and equipment needed.

You can get into a nice Garand through the CMP for well under 1k and shoot Garand matches until you're comfortable going all in on a national match setup.

 

[ejm1961Tbird]

Great tip - I just went through a CMP course at my local range a couple of weeks ago. We shot the M1. I was lucky in that my instructor has a Distinguished Rifleman Badge. I enjoyed it, and am tempted to pull the trigger (pun intended) and buy an AR-15. I think I need to go watch a match or two. I want to make sure that this is something I will stick with after making a big investment. In the worse case, I know it would be easy to resell a good AR.

 

[Jackfre]

I shot hi power back in the 70's with a NM Garand. I just couldn't afford to shoot as much as I wanted or needed. Sold the Garand (you should be able to hear a 30 yr sob) and got an Anschutz 1813 Super Match 22. Did that for a while and now for target work and cleaning up pests around the place I shoot a Feinwerkbau spring piston air rifle. That is the shooting I have continued to do as it doesn't disturb the neighbors and I don't have to go anywhere to do it. www.straightshooters.com is a great site for air rifle information and product.

The CMP programs are excellent.

 

[JUSTA50]

If you really want to spend some money, get into 3 gun. It's very addictive, and unfortunatlly very expensive.

 

[geologist]

May I suggest finding a local club affiliated with the Civilian Marksmanship Program and checking into their CMP matches.

They'll typically provide a rifle (M1), ammo, and instruction on the course of fire. It's a great way to get started in high power. My hometown club did them; usually a couple hours in a classroom and then range time. They went over proper shooting stance, sight picture, sight adjustment, mirage, rifle operation and cleaning. They also went over do's and don'ts of matches, and equipment needed.

You can get into a nice Garand through the CMP for well under 1k and shoot Garand matches until you're comfortable going all in on a national match setup.

$598 for an entry level M1 Garand via CMP. They also sell cases of .30-06 ammo affordably. Going to be getting one myself soon. If you have the M1 shipped they throw in a nice CMP hard case.

 

[yucholian]

+1 for Kowa scope. I have a TSN-771 on Ray Vin stand and love the combo.

 

[ejm1961Tbird]

Kowa is a great spotting scope. I just bought a Konus 20-60x80. It is not quite as good as the Kowa, but close, and costs a lot less. I bought a Jim Owens scope stand to go with it, but it has not arrived yet.

 

[Jarhead0408]

Oh man, bringing back memories here.

I started shooting .22 competition at my local range and did okay enough that they let me on the Junior High Power Rifle Team. We used NM AR-15A2's from Armalite. Sweet little rifles! We used 55gr. for 200 yd's, and 68gr. for 300 to 400 yd's. We sourced the ammo from Black Hills Ammunition. My coach "Bob" was a M-56 Scorpion crewman during Viet-Nam, though never deployed. He would take the once fired 68gr.'s and reload them as 80gr. for use at the 600 yard line.

I think we went to Camp Perry/Port Clinton back in '02 or maybe '03. Had an awesome time, you'll meet some of the best people you could ever know up there. Just don't get cleaned out on vendor row! Also, if your going to stay on base, take along at leat one extra flyswatter as you'll wear out the first one trying to maintain control over your ripped screen ex German POW quonset hut from the fly's. And bring along plenty of $10 bills to fill up on the great steak dinners the cute girls at the Mess hall serve up.

While your there be sure to be nice to the United States Marine Corps Rifle Team and maybe, just maybe they will polish your feedramp and fine tune file your hammer/trigger assembly. I got to shoot alongside (Not part of) of them at both Camp Butner here in NC and at Camp Perry. Great experience all around.

Got to shoot the Infantry Course? (not sure if thats the right name) with the Connecticut Junior High Power Rifle Team up there too. Later on I got invited to shoot the long range course with them at Quantico on the range just past the FBI building on base. They broke the 1,000 yd record for Junior High Power that year. y score was nowhere near as good as there but it was cool at least hitting black at 1,000 yds. Those 80 gr.'s I used were so long we had to hand load them per shot. Too long to put in a magazine.

I also had the privilege of pulling pits for the 2003 U.S. Palma Team right before they headed over to England for some International Match. Talk about nail drivers! Ever seen 10 shots go through the V at 1,000 yards? Then when you pull the target you only find 3 holes? Yeah, that was normal for them. That was the rule. Not the exception. Of course they had the aluminum bodied space guns. But hey it worked for them right?

Wish I had kept up with it but I stopped to join the Marine Corp in '04 and haven't had the time since.

Hope you have fun with it man, post some range pics when you get the chance.

Thanks for the memories

 

[stealthz]

Get bravo company to build you a rifle. Great company great service! 75 and 77 grain SMK bullets all day. 1-8" twist. Gisselle trigger as well. That's a perfect rifle set up. As the guns are built to actual mil spec and tested. Not all manufacturers build the ARs correctly or to specifications.

Precision shooting is s addicting as my hobby and takes a lot of training but always fun. It's great to hit Xs 600+ yards open sight.


Also recommend Satern barrels or broughten. Guns I've built we're more accurate then I'll ever be able to shoot them.
Shoot me a pm or email if you got questions as I've done this a while and is probably my biggest passion.

 

[ejm1961Tbird]

Jarhead - thanks for the cool stories. It sounds like you had some great experiences at Camp Perry. I would like to be able to shoot there one day after I get some experience under my belt. I would also like to take the Rifle Small Arms Firing School from the U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit.

Stealthz - great suggestions on the rifle. I think I will start with a RRA NM A2. This rifle out-of-the-box will surely outshoot me for some time. Maybe if I stick with it and shoot out the barrel, I can then get a WOA upper and upgrade the trigger.

 

[4th-stooge]

Whoa, we're gonna get kicked off this forum since we haven't "garage'd" since the first post.

Way back when, bought a Colt Match Target, started handloading 69gr Sierra's in pickup (highly cleaned/sized/etc) brass and shot the local National Match course here in northern NJ, made NRA Marksman class as did my teenage son (of course he did better) and didn't break the bank. For my money, you don't need to go high end, just go hang out a few times at the local NM shoots and talk to the locals. You will get the high end guys (money is no object) and the low end guys (drive Priuses with Obama stickers) but you need to take a few months face-to-face and get info and decide for yourself.

PM me if you want more detail, always happy to help the 300yd hopefuls. Shoot straight.

Stooge

 

[Jarhead0408]

Tbird, Yeah I ran into the Army's AMU up there and a few other places as well but I'm kinda biased towards the Marine Corps side of the house. Bet you couldn't tell huh? lol.

Only downside was it was time consuming. Not sure if you have a family or not but if you don't maybe the time factor won't be as big a deal.

Oh yeah, if you're going to be on the line all day long make sure to NEVER STOP HYDRATING! I've seen quite a few guys pass out from lack of hydration, couple of buddies of mine had to get IV drips. They always taught us in the Marine Corps to get properly hydrated the day before anything we had to do. If you wait until the day your running a PFT or doing a 30 mile hump you are a day to late.

 

[BHR4CE1]

Here's mine...

 

[Jarhead0408]

^^^ Goin old school on me huh?
Been a while since I've handled an A1, No forward assist, tri-prong flash hider, triangle handguards, 20 round mag and is that a 1x 0r 2x scope?

 

[Jarhead0408]

For those interested in the non accuracy side of all this, look up bumpstock on google or youtube. Makes your AR platform fully auto and it is legal as well.

 

[Bad Hammer]

....Been a while since I've handled an A1, No forward assist....

Without the forward assist, it's not even an A1.......

 

[ejm1961Tbird]

Stooge - I'm interested in what you did; shoot in CMP matches with my son. Spend some fun time with my boy and see how good we can get.

 

[Jarhead0408]

Bad Hammer, Guess it's been a while since I brushed up on my nomenclature too huh? Thanks for the correction!

 

[tntt321]

Great to see that there are a few people that shoot highpower on here.

I went to Camp Perry every year from '01-'07 and shot CMP, NRA, and Long Range. Started out just like Jarhead with a local smallbore club and moved my way up to highpower at the state level. I won the state junior championship 3 years in a row, multiple time regional medalist in several different states, distinguished rifleman and presidents hundred, made it up on stage at Camp Perry for a few different things, and in 2007 I shot in the worlds with the Under 25 long range team. The following year I graduated from college and I haven't shot a whole lot since. Every year it's tough to miss out on Camp Perry. I finally made plans to go back out there this year but due to a big job promotion that I just started last week, those plans were put on hold until next year.

I went to Small Arms Firing School my first year out at Perry but I would suggest trying to get out to a clinic at Oak Ridge (www.orsahp.com) where you can make connections with some of the locals who will be willing to help you out on a regular basis if you decide to start competing on a regular basis. The Rock River national match rifles are great but I would highly recommend a White Oak by John Holliger as stated earlier.

 

[Jarhead0408]

Hey Amigo^^^ Glad to see you had a good run of it.
Looks like you did ALOT better than did.
You meet alot of good people in that sport.
So, was I right about the chow hall girls in '03 or what?
Hope you get back up there soon. I don't have any more time lately but maybe one day my son can head up there!

 

[tntt321]

To be honest, I would never really eat at the mess hall. I do remember a bunch of girls working at the NRA stat office however. I grew up shooting with a couple kids that went into the AMU and one of them ended up marrying one of those girls.

What state are you from?

 

[Jarhead0408]

Hey man, Sorry for the slow response.

I am from the great state of (Take of your hat and bow your head please!) North Cackalackey
(North Carolina)

 

[ManxRacer]

I used to compete in High Power years ago. I competed at various service matches including the all-Navy matches, Interservice matches at Quantico and the National at Camp Perry. Back then I shot an M-1 Garand in .308. I also shot a Remington 40-X for a few years competing as a civilian, but ultimately migrated to an AR-15.

I've owned a few AR's but now have a Bushmaster DCM. It's been a very good gun for me. If you're going to shoot small, short range matches I think the AR is a good choice. You can do some impressive things by reloading to suit your particular rifle. If you're just starting, I'd by an out-of-the-box match AR and start learning the "match game." There's a lot to learn from procedure to techniques. Personally, I think it's a reallllly great sport. The only downside is that most of the matches are during the worst heat of the summer and you compete outside with heavy equipment, shooting jackets, etc. Great experience though.

 

[Drewstang]

Just a regular AR is expensive enough, I couldn't imagine shooting competitively.

 

[Jarhead0408]

I might be out of touch with it now.
But back when I was doing it we were offered the match grade Armalite's for $700 as a club discount. I think the going price back then was between $1400 and $1700. Not sure what it is now. If your shooting as part of a team they might cut you a discount.

Manxracer- I've seen some incredible shots with Ar's, made a few of them myself.
But I absolutely agree with you, as a rule the heavier weight of a .30 caliber bullet definitely holds its flight path better.

 

[tntt321]

Hey man, Sorry for the slow response.

I am from the great state of (Take of your hat and bow your head please!) North Cackalackey
(North Carolina)

I was a junior and remember hanging out with another junior from NC back in '02 I think. His dad used to shoot too but I can't remember his name. I never saw him at Perry again but he was a pretty crazy kid. Do you know who I'm talking about by chance?

 

[tntt321]

Here's a pic from a target I shot in Colorado a few years ago. 300 yard rapid fire with a service rifle.

 

[Jarhead0408]

Not too bad for 300 Rapid. 'Cept for that flyer at nine-o-clock.
The only guy that comes to mind was a short kid named Stewart Adcock. Doubt it's the same dude you knew though. He enlisted in the Army about 2 years after I went in the Marine Corps. Last I heard from him he went Ranger, then Special Forces.

Any idea what club the guy you knew belonged to?

 

[tntt321]

I have no idea on the club. I think he was good friends with Samuel Freeman.

 

[Jarhead0408]

That name actually sounds familiar to me.
I've got a bunch of old match results from the news letters the club used to send out. Might take a while but I'll see if I can dig his name up.

 

[The Frisco Kid]

Give 3 gun a try... your life will never be the same!

 

[Jarhead0408]

^^^ I'll bet you're right!
Doubt I could afford it right this second. Only thing I can afford to shoot for fun right this second is my trusty Ruger 10/22. Three gun always looked pretty cool though.