Any interest in power tool teardowns?

[Stuey]

I was at Milwaukee's event this week, and at one point they showed off their brushless motor vs a competitors' motor. There was a substantial difference in heft and heavy duty-ness.

Anyways, so I'm thinking of tearing some tools down for the blog, maybe just drill/drivers to start. I'd also post an image or two here as well. Is this something you guys would like to see?

 

[Roots]

Yes.

 

[StevePgh]

I'd love to see those, but like you said, as comparisons between brands. It is pretty easy to talk about brush vs. brushless, battery technology, torque, and other features on specs alone, but it is hard to judge build quality and reliability across brands without side-by-side teardowns.

Are you allowed to post pics of the teardown you saw at the expo? Oh, and is Milwaukee releasing a new multimeter in the near future?

 

[Stuey]

I'd love to see those, but like you said, as comparisons between brands. It is pretty easy to talk about brush vs. brushless, battery technology, torque, and other features on specs alone, but it is hard to judge build quality and reliability across brands without side-by-side teardowns.

Are you allowed to post pics of the teardown you saw at the expo? Oh, and is Milwaukee releasing a new multimeter in the near future?

Yes, I'm sure I can post the photos, but it'll take me time to sort through all the photos and notes. They basically had the bare brushless motors for hands-on examination.

What I saw regarding the motors was heftier construction and thicker windings. Thicker windings -> greater power.

I know that when I shop for new PC components, I love seeing the insides of power supplies. That's what convinced me to go for higher-end models years ago - seeing $20 power supply guts compared to $80 units. Night and day difference.

I can't talk about a lot of the tools until a certain date, but no, there's no new multimeter coming down the pipeline.

 

[cashishift]

If/when I need to buy new tools, I think I'll be going Milwaukee the second time around.

and this is from a die-hard dewalt guy.

 

[buening]

Stuey did they mention what manufacturer the competitors motors was used for comparison?

 

[Hoyer Motorsports]

If/when I need to buy new tools, I think I'll be going Milwaukee the second time around.

and this is from a die-hard dewalt guy.

Amen to this. I'm a ********* de walt guy. I use their cordless tools every single day at home in my shop and use them to make a living. Millwright/welder/mechanic at work and build racecars at home.

I want the best possible tool for the money and would love to see a compairison. Great great great idea.
I read one on tool straoge boxes and was amazed to find that harbor freight has the best tool box, at 50% cheaper than that big brands and 300% less than tool truck brands. Facts and figures don't lie.
It will be hard for me to believe that anything is better than DW.
They have never let me down and I absolutly abuse these tools every day.
I love them. They're like old friends to me. I've had the same 18v dewalt drill since 1996. It has a new chuck and been through several batteries but if you can convince me that Milwaukee is better, I'll switch.
No arguements.

CH

PS, am i missing the spell check button somewhere?

 

[Stuey]

If/when I need to buy new tools, I think I'll be going Milwaukee the second time around.

and this is from a die-hard dewalt guy.

I'm more of a Bosch and Dewalt fan, but I have to say I'm liking Milwaukee a bit more these days.

I am VERY excited about some of the new tools, but will hold my tongue for a couple of weeks until I can let it flap freely.

Stuey did they mention what manufacturer the competitors motors was used for comparison?

I *think* it was a Makita. They didn't say, just that it was taken from a competing brands' brushless tool.

Amen to this. I'm a ********* de walt guy. I use their cordless tools every single day at home in my shop and use them to make a living. Millwright/welder/mechanic at work and build racecars at home.

I want the best possible tool for the money and would love to see a compairison. Great great great idea.
I read one on tool straoge boxes and was amazed to find that harbor freight has the best tool box, at 50% cheaper than that big brands and 300% less than tool truck brands. Facts and figures don't lie.
It will be hard for me to believe that anything is better than DW.
They have never let me down and I absolutly abuse these tools every day.
I love them. They're like old friends to me. I've had the same 18v dewalt drill since 1996. It has a new chuck and been through several batteries but if you can convince me that Milwaukee is better, I'll switch.
No arguements.

CH

PS, am i missing the spell check button somewhere?

I really don't like to do head-to-head comparisons, because it's tough to be comprehensive enough to draw accurate conclusions. Hopefully it will be easier to compare raw components than performance.

 

[willhollin]

Sounds like a great idea!

I also interested to see if standards have actually improved, i've still got a Makita 6343d which is going strong, it's really well built unlike some of the latest Makita with sticking gear selector switches.

 

[Monte]

yes, very interested !

there is another forum, a "owners group" for "Dewalt" (hint) with a lot of teardown pics for the ppl who are interested.....

 

[bobbar]

Do it!

 

[kissmeimgerman]

Yes!

 

[woody 73]

Funny thing but about a year ago I was at ohio power tools and the Milwaukee salesman was showing me the break down of dewalt and milwakee it was very interesting too see.

I would be very interested in seeing more of that , so yes please show us.

 

[jeep450]

Hell yes. Do it.

 

[Stuey]

Sounds like a great idea!

I also interested to see if standards have actually improved, i've still got a Makita 6343d which is going strong, it's really well built unlike some of the latest Makita with sticking gear selector switches.

umm... *cough*

That doesn't appear to have been an isolated incident.

 

[Greatbear]

I'm all for it!

In probably 90% of cases where I bought a new power tool, especially cordless, I've taken each one apart to peek inside. Last one that I tore into was the Milwaukee Fuel hammer drill I picked up a few weeks ago. I open up the batteries to check the feasibility of rebuilding the packs in the future as well. Discovered the M18 packs have the most electronics inside compared to ones from Bosch, DeWalt, Makita and Hitachi I have, save for the 36V DeWalts.

I can post up some pics I took in the past if there's interest, but I don't want to take away from Stuey's efforts.

 

[Stuey]

I'm all for it!

In probably 90% of cases where I bought a new power tool, especially cordless, I've taken each one apart to peek inside. Last one that I tore into was the Milwaukee Fuel hammer drill I picked up a few weeks ago. I open up the batteries to check the feasibility of rebuilding the packs in the future as well. Discovered the M18 packs have the most electronics inside compared to ones from Bosch, DeWalt, Makita and Hitachi I have, save for the 36V DeWalts.

I can post up some pics I took in the past if there's interest, but I don't want to take away from Stuey's efforts.

Don't worry, I won't be offended if you post your photos!

Milwaukee went through a good 10-minutes on how they select only the best batteries and how they build the best battery packs. eh, the same li-ion company probably sells their cells to everyone else.

 

[Greatbear]

The M18 packs have Samsung batteries inside. LiIon tech is constantly improving, I expect to see a big move to 2.0AH 18650 cells by a lot of manufacturers in a year or two.

 

[jim2664258]

I'd also be interested in seeing comparisons internally between manufacturers' "regular" and "heavy duty" models, although I'm sure you don't have an unlimited budget. I'm a Bosch guy so I am more familiar with their tools, but I am curious to see the difference between their HD line vs. the more standard Brute Tough line (and is there much difference between Brute Tough and Compact Tough, other than size?). Milwaukee I think pretty closely matches line quality with Bosch at several levels.

 

[Stuey]

This is an image I took at the event. Milwaukee motor on the right.

You can see why this got me interested in doing teardowns, right?

If two tools are in the same class and at the same purchase price, I would definitely want the one built with the beefier motor.

Going by just the images doesn't paint a fair picture, though. This may be naive, but even if the motors were rated at the same torque, which is possible, the one on the right would be better suited for heavier duty applications.

 

[buening]

If two tools are in the same class and at the same purchase price...

This is what I'm wondering. Its easy for a manufacturer to take the homeowner version of a competitors motor and then take their heavy duty contractor version to compare. Without knowing the model their competitor motor is from, its hard to determine if it is an apples to apples comparison. With your possible teardowns, this will ensure apple to apples comparison!

 

[StevePgh]

One of the interesting points when dealing with brushless motors is that the tech to run them is very complex. Size alone may not be as much as a factor as it was in the brushed days if the controller efficiency is also different. I have friends that are EE's and they have been playing with brushless motors, which is where I am getting that info from.

Another factor to consider is the brushless controller needs a way to sense the position of the rotor. Some implementations use Hall Effect sensors (think automotive crankshaft sensors), others use a more complex method by measuring the values of uncharged coils. Hall Effect sensors would increase the overall size of the motor module. I have no idea what tech would be in power tool motors, this is just an observation folks may find interesting to follow up on if they think size is important.

I'd be most interested in the actual torque delivered measured using the same methodology and equipment, the amount of heat generated after equivalent time/torque conditions, use-time per charge, the amount of sealing that surrounds the guts of the motor (and rest of the unit), and the warranty. Battery tech is also important since they are almost as pricey as a bare tool, but there is no easy way of quantifying that even if you did a teardown and were an EE - most of the intelligence is in software burned into controller chips (firmware).

 

[Stuey]

Yes, there's a lot of intelligence built into the firmware of the motor controller, but that doesn't factor as much into the cost of the tool as the motor I don't think.

Your points are all valid, but the complexity of brushless systems means that I must narrow my focus towards components I can realistically examine and possibly analyze.