GFI / Outlet Problem - Help!

[Stee6043]

I'm in the midst of a garage remodel and yesterday I needed to swap out an existing beige outlet for a white one. Well upon re-installation none of the outlets in my garage work. No tripped breakers so I'm assuming it's a GFI issue. After hours of searching I ultimately found two GFI outlets outside on plugs I never use. Both were tripped. I reset them both and still have no power to the outlets in the garage. The outlet I replaced is at the end of the line and I did replace it with another new one just to make sure nothing weird was going on. I've reset every GFI outlet I can find (six total). I cannot imagine there are any other GFI's hiding in and around my house.

Any ideas out there? I'm getting rather aggravated at this problem since it was only my desire to have a proper color outlet that started the madness. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

 

[Dustball]

You need to work your way down the line and find out which outlet is the first one that has voltage going TO the outlet and no voltage coming FROM the outlet.

If your house was wired correctly, there will be a GFI that's first in line from the panel and everything down the line after the GFI will be a regular outlet since that GFI will be protecting every outlet downstream from it.

 

[nehog]

It is possible that with age the GFCIs that tripped, even when reset, are not passing current. Use a tester and check each and make sure they are 'live' and working first. If so , then you are going to have to trace circuits.

 

[FluxCore]

I prefer GFI breakers....much simpler for my applications

 

[Gregishome]

I'm in the midst of a garage remodel and yesterday I needed to swap out an existing beige outlet for a white one. Well upon re-installation none of the outlets in my garage work. No tripped breakers so I'm assuming it's a GFI issue. After hours of searching I ultimately found two GFI outlets outside on plugs I never use. Both were tripped. I reset them both and still have no power to the outlets in the garage. The outlet I replaced is at the end of the line and I did replace it with another new one just to make sure nothing weird was going on. I've reset every GFI outlet I can find (six total). I cannot imagine there are any other GFI's hiding in and around my house.

Any ideas out there? I'm getting rather aggravated at this problem since it was only my desire to have a proper color outlet that started the madness. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Start with the outlet you changed. If all the outlets were working BEFORE you changed this one, somethings askew with your new changeout.

 

[RivennHewn]

It's easy to wire GFCI outlets backwards. Go back and check to see if you have it hooked up reverse.

 

[Mr_fixit]

Start with the outlet you changed. If all the outlets were working BEFORE you changed this one, somethings askew with your new changeout.

here. here!

 

[jbberns]

Did you turn the breaker back on? Sorry, had to ask.

 

[Stee6043]

Thanks for all the replies...first, since the outlet I changed was "last in line" I did not throw the breaker when I did the swap. I assumed this is why I tripped a GFI to begin with. And for what it's worth I currently do not know which breaker services the garage outlets since it is not labeled. I gave up after trying three breakers before I did my outlet swap. I assumed it was coming from the GFI circuit in a small bathroom just outside the garage but that outlet is working fine and everything INSIDE the house has power.

I have three GFI outlets outside and I've checked all three. They all work top and bottom and have all been reset multiple times. The three inside my house also all work and have all been reset a bunch of times now. Is it possible for a GFI outlet to go bad and still provide power top and bottom at the outlet itself? I wonder if it's worth my time to just replace all three exterior GFI's just for kicks. Three outlets will probably cost a lot less than an electrician.

I'm not sure how I would even determine which GFI outlet services the garage at this point?

 

[eljefino]

Check amazon for GFCI pricing sometimes they're only $4-5 each instead of 15-20 from lowes/depot.

Mabye you got lucky and your garage is powered from your neighbor and his meter.

Do a process of elimination where you flip ALL the breakers on the right side of the box, then all on the left. Then do the top half then the bottom. Then the top two, the next two, etc.

I'm going to PO the next guy who owns my house; my wood shed gets power from the dishwasher circuit b/c that's what I tapped into in my crawl space.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Thanks for all the replies...first, since the outlet I changed was "last in line" I did not throw the breaker when I did the swap. I assumed this is why I tripped a GFI to begin with. And for what it's worth I currently do not know which breaker services the garage outlets since it is not labeled. I gave up after trying three breakers before I did my outlet swap. ......................

I'm not sure how I would even determine which GFI outlet services the garage at this point?

Sorry, this just NEEDS to be said publicly.
Considering your apparent level of expertise, you should NOT be "giving up" finding the correct breaker, and you should NOT even be taking off a cover plate without a tester in your hand!!

Working live is NEVER an option for a DIYer. There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for it.

 

[RECox286]

With the level of experience noted here, it would be a smart idea to call in a

licensed electrician at this point in time to trace out the circuit, and straighten

out the problem before it gets overwhelmingly difficult.

Uncle Bob

 

[Stee6043]

Thanks again, guys. I'll get 'er figured out. I'm just glad it's only the garage that is impacted. Life inside the house carry's on while I continue to consider my options. This would be a far more dire situation if the woman of the house was being disrupted.

 

[FluxCore]

Come on friend, let's make this simple.

Figure out fersure what circuit breaker supplies power to that string, then install a single GFI breaker....25 bucks and it's done.

Then go downstream and rip out any GFI outlet/outlets and replace it/them with high quality standard outlets.

Just make certain to keep your whites properly configured and your bares bonded tight.

GFI devices work on the principle that whatever power is sent down the black wire must come back in equal value on the white...not much leakage allowed...just a few milliamps...cause milliamps kill when you are properly grounded to Earth...Yup, they do if not interrupted in milliseconds.

The old saying goes, "1 thousants of an amp will SHOCK you...1 hundreth of an amp will lock your muscles so you can't jerk away...1 tenth of an amp will kill you dead."....especially with low voltage 120 vice 480...480 will blast your flesh away and interupt itself, whereas 120 will lock your muscles and cook you.

So think about it....you replaced an outlet and now stuff don't work....did you get it right?..Is the hardware you used faulty?...Do you have the "closed loop" required for your upsteam GFI outlet to function as a circuit interupter, or do you have a situation where you will **** current thru your body until the breaker trips?

GFI's function as a circuit interupter off a milliamp imbalance, and they do so in milliseconds...breakers don't trip until rated amperage is exceeded for a period of time...often measure in full seconds.

Install GFI breakers and then if an outlet downstream don't work, call a qualified electrician to fix it. The GFI breaker will serve dual capacity where it will trip if it senses a milliamp imbalance, plus trip when it experiences over current....No GFI outlet will do that....er, both

 

[FluxCore]

Let me add.....Back in mid 80's in Norfolk, VA, I added a swimming pool.....lots of kids climbing in and out soaking wet....travelin in and out of my shop as they chased each other....soaking wet....grounded on bare concrete thru their bare wet feet.....hmmm...I saw the potential.

At that point I installed/replaced all my shop breakers with GFI breakers.

Sure nuff, while I was welding-helmet down over my head, my 10 year old son climbed out of the pool and ran in the shop to plug in an extension cord to power a radio they had on the pool deck....His wet fingers slipped as he was inserting the plug and he got shocked bad when his wet finger touched the yet to be fully plugged in black....but the GFI breaker tripped and he recovered quickly.

The funny part is I didn't realize it immediately...It was AFTER he stopped crying and I went back to work that I noticed the breaker was tripped

He's 37 now and has two kids

 

[ddawg16]

Now is a real good time to tag all your breakers as to what they serve.

Step number 1 when you buy a house is go around to all your outlets and know what breaker serves it....

I even go as far as to write the CB # on the inside of an outlet cover.

 

[FluxCore]

Now is a real good time to tag all your breakers as to what they serve.

Step number 1 when you buy a house is go around to all your outlets and know what breaker serves it....

I even go as far as to write the CB # on the inside of an outlet cover.

I spent 20 years on navy destroyers and nuclear submarines

EVERY switchboard load, even every outlet was labled with what breaker and panel served it.....That saved my life many times when instant reaction and systems knowledge had to be 'reactionary'......I've seen plasma balls flying OUTSIDE of locked closed and rated enclosures, and heard the deafening sounds of short circuits welding or blasting themself into a new being..I've been chased by plasma balls and heard them grunt and seen them splatter....I know the sound and smell of that death.

One time in the 80's, 1984, we were returning from the North Pole....on USS Flying Fish, SSN 673, we managed to dive under a monsterous rouge wave.....the bridge hatch was still open........We were trying to get in deep water beyond the Continental shelf beyond Brest France ...it extends forever there and the skipper wouldn't dive until he had 600 fathoms under him,,,so we rocked and rolled for days in relentless seas...........When the rouge wave hit, tons of green sea water poured down the sail hatch, everything directly below errupted into plasma balls and whole consoles went up....The Ship's control panel, BCP-all of it.....Below decks, firecontrol and launcher arced and shot plasma...they all went plasma...the submarine went dark...gawd awful dark except for the electrical explosions....I was Chief of the Watch, my buddies were up on the bridge. All went dark except for the blinding plasma being ejected from Firecontrol console..Then, the torpedo room below reported plasma arcs coming from launcher console and battery

I'm still puckered thinking about it..We should all have died..The battery should have exploded..

You know what saved the submarine?...A young grunt who knew what breakers to open....Not the captian-He was an idiot.

Label EVERY breaker in your house...pretend it's floating a thousand miles from land in any direction and a thousand feet deep.

Yup, do it

 

[Stee6043]

Were it not for the stories above I would have come to you this morning begging for forgiveness. But that sub story, as well as the pool/welding story, were both good reads! Aside from what I'm about to say below this was still a worthwhile thread in my opinion.

Now it is with great sadness and much embarassment that I report to you this morning that the problem has been resolved with no electricians required. In a half-awake stuper this morning I had to make my way to the laundry room to grab a clean shirt. While I was in there, leaned over the counter, I noticed the faint red glow from...gasp...another GFI outlet in a location I never knew existed. This outlet happens to be not 2 feet from another outlet (non-GFI) and is very regularly covered by piles of clothes. Obviously, I do not spend enough time in the laundry room. I checked this room several times but never saw this outlet and had no reason to think I'd have another one in this tiny room (3 total). I hit the reset on this newly discovered GFI outlet and all is well in the world again.

So this makes seven GFI outlets in my house (not a single GFI breaker). I really like the suggestion above about replacing the outlets with GFI breakers. Is it normal for an electrician to rely so heavily on the outlets and not the breakers? My previous home had both but I had at least 2 GFI breakers in the panel. I now have four (4) GFI outlets inside the house and three (3) outside, zero GFI breakers.

This coming weekend I'm going to go through all of my circuits and label them more completely. I wasted way too much time this past weekend screwing around with this issue. This was time robbed from my garage renovation efforts. I've said it before and I'll say it again - stupid beige outlet.

Thanks again for all of the input. I hope I could at least provide some entertainment for you guys. I'll take a picture of me shooting and then burning the beige outlet when the time comes for revenge...

 

[BigGMC]

I still get the impression that you swapped out the receptacle in the garage hot, true?

 

[Stee6043]

I still get the impression that you swapped out the receptacle in the garage hot, true?

Indeed, I did. I never tried to "hide" that fact since I thought it might have been a contributing factor to the tripping of the GFI (which it was).

I always appreciate sound advice, particularly safety advice. I realize working on a hot circuit is not the most desirable situation. If I were completely ignorant and reckless I would not have spent 20 minutes trying to find the appropriate breaker before the swap. I certainly could have spent a few more minutes on the hunt, but I chose not to.

Anyone who has driven or ridden in a car without a seatbelt, has operated a chainsaw without wearing kevlar chaps or has ever worked under a car supported by only a floor jack has taken no less a risk than the misguided DIY'er who chose to replace an electrical outlet on a hot circuit. Over 30,000 people are killed in the USA every year in traffic accidents according to NHTSA. Roughly 400 Americans are struck by lightning each year (of which only 10% are fatal) according to NOAA. And according to CPSC and OSHA just over 150 people are killed each year by electrocution both on and off the job.

So again, thank you for the safety tips. I appreciate the feedback and am not discounting their legitimacy nor their importance. But my commute to work this morning was substantially more dangerous than that garage outlet swap could have ever been. Fortunately I survived both.

 

[BigGMC]

I was just simply wondering if the hot swap was what tripped GFCI in the first place, or there was something else going on.
I do hot work as well, but usually only if nessesary.

Drive safely!

 

[Stee6043]

I was just simply wondering if the hot swap was what tripped GFCI in the first place, or there was something else going on.
I do hot work as well, but usually only if nessesary.

Drive safely!

Dang...sorry...I thought you were going to jump all over me for the live circuit. ha. Have a great day.

 

[coolreed]

Many times a GFI will trip and you do not realize where the GFI is located. It could be hiding behind a Tool Chest or Cabinet. Could even be in another room than where your outlet is. This has happened to me. I recently took a lightning hit and all the 120 VAC
circuits in my garage went dead. I looked and looked and could not resolve the issue. I reset every breaker and GFI I could find, even outside GFI's. No luck. Then I finally found the tripped Mystery GFI lurking behind my Mechanics Tool Cabinet in my garage.
Had forgotten that it was there.

 

[LB-1911]

Were it not for the stories above I would have come to you this morning begging for forgiveness. But that sub story, as well as the pool/welding story, were both good reads! Aside from what I'm about to say below this was still a worthwhile thread in my opinion.

Now it is with great sadness and much embarassment that I report to you this morning that the problem has been resolved with no electricians required. In a half-awake stuper this morning I had to make my way to the laundry room to grab a clean shirt. While I was in there, leaned over the counter, I noticed the faint red glow from...gasp...another GFI outlet in a location I never knew existed. This outlet happens to be not 2 feet from another outlet (non-GFI) and is very regularly covered by piles of clothes. Obviously, I do not spend enough time in the laundry room. I checked this room several times but never saw this outlet and had no reason to think I'd have another one in this tiny room (3 total). I hit the reset on this newly discovered GFI outlet and all is well in the world again.

So this makes seven GFI outlets in my house (not a single GFI breaker). I really like the suggestion above about replacing the outlets with GFI breakers. Is it normal for an electrician to rely so heavily on the outlets and not the breakers? My previous home had both but I had at least 2 GFI breakers in the panel. I now have four (4) GFI outlets inside the house and three (3) outside, zero GFI breakers.

This coming weekend I'm going to go through all of my circuits and label them more completely. I wasted way too much time this past weekend screwing around with this issue. This was time robbed from my garage renovation efforts. ...

A Home Electrical Circuit Map is a very good idea, once completed make several copies.

Good Luck