Quality and COO - Made in USA isn't everything?

[Seb650R]

What is more important to you quality or COO (Country of Origin)? I have seen lots of people go on about COO in lots of threads. I personally am all for supporting US companies but only if they have the best product. If a foreign manufacturer makes a better product, they will get my money. Patriotism isn't going to sucker me into buying lower quality goods.

Let me give you a few examples:

Ford vs Honda

My first car was a 2003 SVT Focus. It was assembled in Mexico with foreign parts. My mom bought a 2008 Honda Civic. It was assembled in the USA with foreign parts. The Ford was a giant piece of **** that constantly broke, the Honda has never given a problem and is pretty damn bulletproof. Should I buy for Ford because the company is American? The Japanese car is higher quality and even has more of the production done in the US.

Harley vs the Japanese big four

I'm sure this will ignite some fires, but I'll speak it anyway. Harleys tend to be lower quality then foreign bikes. Japanese bikes are about half the price and come with a great deal more updated technology. My friend is a Harley mechanic and was real proud that he has a harley that made it to 60k miles before he had to tear into the engine. Two of my friends have Hondas with over 100k, and one of them changes his oil every 25k miles and it still runs strong. I'm not trying to say that Harley doesn't have any bright side to it, just that their quality doesn't seem as great as foreign competitors. This is from my experience working on bikes, not just what I have heard. Not to mention every Harley part I have ever gotten from a dealership clearly states Made in Japan on the package.

My machinist's take on his foreign Lathe

The machinist I go to grew up in a family of machinists. He has been working with machine tools his entire life. He also isn't from the US, he is from South Africa. I have been thinking about buying a lathe for personal stuff and asked him what brand he had. He told me it was Taiwanese made and as much as I may not like to hear it, it was better then the American machine in the same class. I'm not a machinist, but he is the best I know and I have respect for his opinion.

Again I'm not here to start a fight, I'm simply speaking from what I have seen. These examples that stand true for me, do not necessarily represent a defect in quality to anyone else. After all Quality can be a highly subjective term.. My first concern tends to be quality while COO comes second.

*Let the Flaming Begin*

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

I am a Quality Manager - of Construction - but I am oriented toward "work", products, etc that reflect pride of design, construction, manufacture and/or service.

I don't have TOO much quarrel with your comments except to say that comparing an '03 Ford is not a comparable comparison to a five year newer Honda, IMHO. And I'm a Chevy guy but even to me it is obvious all US car manufacturers have come a long way in the last ten years and that truly applies to Ford too.

As for Harley - I'm not a motorcycle guy but I know that for a Harley to BE a Harley it MUST be a V twin and with that geometry it has some disadvantages versus a more modern cylinder configuration. Maybe some of the cycle guys will chime in but I think that is a big contributing factor.

Things being equal or nearly so, I'm buying U.S. if I can.

EDIT: PS: I've got NOTHING against foreign manufacturers. I've got nothing against people spending their dollar where they think is best....the freedom to do that (and a million more things) is one of the things that makes America be what it is, the best country in the world despite its faults.

 

[56rpm]

And COO stands for...Googled it without luck.

 

[Hiball]

Kind of a loaded poll. I choose quality products, made here in the states.

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

COO = Country of Origin

 

[Garage5.9]

And COO stands for...Googled it without luck.

country of origin

 

[DFW-LSX]

And COO stands for...Googled it without luck.

Country Of Origin...An obsession of a lot of people here...

 

[garfunkle24]

Kind of a loaded poll. I choose quality products, made here in the states.

How is it loaded?

Seems like a simple enough question to me. For me, quality always wins.

 

[Hiball]

How is it loaded?

Seems like a simple enough question to me. For me, quality always wins.

Ok.. You asked so I'll answer.

The Thread/Poll started with a opening statement explaining how the OP was all for buying US Made products but only if they where the Best Quality. The OP then proceeded to give 3 Examples where "Imports" where better than "Domestic" products which set the standard for the Poll, on top of that the Title claims "Made in the USA isnt Everything". I on the Other hand believe that you can find Quality Products in both US and the Import Products, Along with Junk. So How do i vote? I vote for Quality made products produced here in the states.

That my friend is the lesson of the Night and Definition of a Loaded Poll.

 

[Bull]

Sometimes, being the best isn't good enough.

Like, I might not choose the best looking chick because she is a maniac, even if she cooks like a pro and bends like a silly straw.

I also might not choose the best performing tool if it comes from a place that I like less than another place. I don't even need "the best." I am not working to complete the next Riddler winner in my garage. I'm just a hack who likes to work on old Pontiacs.

 

[56rpm]

Thanks guys.

 

[Super Sport]

People buying USA-made is what keeps nearly everybody on this board employed. Without that paycheck every week I couldn't buy much of anything. I buy USA-made when I can because I want to keep receiving that paycheck, and in turn continue to buy stuff.

But, that doesn't mean I won't buy something that has been imported. COO is important to me, but I keep my options open when making purchases. If something imported is far superior, that is what I buy. If the two items are similar in all aspects but price, I will spend a little more to ensure somebody here gets a paycheck this week.

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

...That my friend is the lesson of the Night and Definition of a Loaded Poll.

"SO IT IS WRITTEN, SO IT SHALL BE DONE!"

Geez dude, decaf, decaf!

 

[Joe B.]

Most of the tools still made in the USA are top quality. 30 years ago you could get good stuff and junky stuff from the USA just like any other product. Now only the good stuff is left. So, if you buy USA when it come to tools you are probably going to get a good product by default. If you buy products from China, it is more of a **** shoot unless you stick with a few well known brands that used to be from the USA. This not to say that China can't make a good tool. I'm sure they can but not many of them get exported to the USA. (Someone on GJ wisely pointed out that China has a space program and they are building stealth fighters, I'm willing to bet that the tools they are using did not come from the USA nor are they for sale at Harbor Freight.)

This seems to apply to tools but not many other products.

 

[Norcal]

As to COO I try to avoid ChiCom **** but that is almost impossible now, but I do read packaging to determine COO. Food from China should be avoided at all cost.

 

[TwoInch]

i think everything you compared in the OP were not comparable.

what makes a harley a harley is the fact that they are based on outdated technology. its a nostalgic type thing. same with small block chevys, they are totally outdated tech, but people love em, myself included. the lathe you mentioned, was the quality better for the money, or simply quality was better top model to top model? different stories. maybe a $1000 taiwan lathe is comparable to a $3000 USA lathe. comparing random things doesnt work well. and neither does one guys opinion.

to me, COO is very important, probably equal to QUALITY. i own tools from china, usa, taiwan, germany, japan, and who knows where else. when buying a new tool, i research and if possible, and affordable to my budget, i will choose USA COO everytime. if not available USA made, or i can not afford the USA made version, i move on to other options, these days being taiwan made mostly. then if that fails, last resort china.

i bought some gearwrench ratchets and double box ratcheting wrenches recently, and searched for taiwan made, instead of the common china stuff stocked nowadays. the ratcheting boxed wrenches i found had been placed on the shelf in 2007, they had the stocking sticker on the back of the package.

i do know i FEEL much better finding, being able to afford, and buying a USA tool, compared to buying asian tools which gives me a hesitant "blah" feeling.

 

[Seb650R]

Ok.. You asked so I'll answer.

The Thread/Poll started with a opening statement explaining how the OP was all for buying US Made products but only if they where the Best Quality. The OP then proceeded to give 3 Examples where "Imports" where better than "Domestic" products which set the standard for the Poll, on top of that the Title claims "Made in the USA isnt Everything". I on the Other hand believe that you can find Quality Products in both US and the Import Products, Along with Junk. So How do i vote? I vote for Quality made products produced here in the states.

That my friend is the lesson of the Night and Definition of a Loaded Poll.

No the title said, "Made in the USA isn't everything?" The question mark implies that it is a question. I get the feeling from many on this board that any product made in the USA is inherently better. I personally have had several "Made in the USA" products that were sub-par. That being said, many of the USA products are better than imports. Japanese products tend to have the best quality control, after all they did spur the greatest innovations in quality control in manufacturing.

I was just wondering if people are willing to buy something made in the USA, knowing it may not be as good, simply as a matter of it being "Made in the USA". There is nothing wrong with this, obviously supporting the economy in the country you live in will help it grow stronger.

I provided the examples as a basis for the fact that I don't always feel that "Made in the USA" is better. Furthermore, I provided the examples as points that just because a company is from the USA, doesn't necessarily mean that buying from them will inherently help the US economy. Certainly, a company that pays Mexican workers to assemble their cars isn't necessarily growing the US economy. A motorcycle built with foreign parts isn't really all that American either as far as I can see.

Sorry if you feel the poll is loaded, but I was looking for a hypothetical answer. Would you buy a sub-par USA product simply because of the COO? I wasn't asking if there is always a USA product that is equivalent.

 

[A_Pmech]

Made in the USA will mean something again when none of us have jobs because they've all been outsourced to the third world.

 

[kald]

COO does matter to me and I try to buy US made products when ever possible. But as a small business owner who has had to really make some serious cuts in every facet of life much less in business to survive. I find myself wondering when I find a US made product if it's union made and how much cheaper it would be if it was not. And do I really want to stretch my already strained budget to support organizations I believe are now a detriment to the country and no longer needed.

Just my feelings on the matter. If you disagree thats fine.

 

[Super Scout]

The comparisons in the first question are a little unfair. Apples to Oranges. That said I think an arguement could be made that top quality products made by certain companies out **** their foreign counterparts.
I think personally the Americans make far better fullsize trucks than foreign.
That USA made Tools are better than Foreign.
I think that people who argue Harley Davidsons are low quality don't know what they are talking about.
That is all.

 

[gregsolds442]

JoeB, As a matter of fact,some American made tools are used in the Chinese space program. When the McDonnell Douglas plant in Columbus, Ohio (formerly a Rockwell-North American Aviation plant) closed,there was an equipment sale, and the Chinese bought several LARGE Cinncinnati Milacron Machine tools (9 spindle Gantries with 18'x120'and 18'x90'beds) and some smaller equipment.They were supposed to be utilized to construct airliners but were used to machine parts for the Chinese ICBM's. Smart move on our part,wasn't it! Undoubtably they were also used in their space program, also.Seems like we just shoot ourselves in the foot just to clear up some cash.

 

[carhunter]

People buying USA-made is what keeps nearly everybody on this board employed.

I'm not sure that it does. The term global economy is overused, but when you've got foreign owned companies based in the US, American companies based overseas, foreign ownership of American brands, etc etc...It is very unclear where your dollar actually goes.


Furthermore, the product may be made in the USA, but with foreign sourced components, or the engineering and customer service was done in China or India...what portion of your dollar actually supports America?

Unless a company mines its own resources directly from US soil, uses US produced energy, US sourced labor, management and design staff, and all the components and sub-components are from the US, its not really "American."

Buy what makes you happy at the end of the day...anything else can be an exercise in futility.

 

[Joe B.]

JoeB, As a matter of fact,some American made tools are used in the Chinese space program........ Seems like we just shoot ourselves in the foot just to clear up some cash.

Good point! And we do it at discount prices.

 

[carhunter]

Undoubtably they were also used in their space program, also.Seems like we just shoot ourselves in the foot just to clear up some cash.

Maybe the tooling was "adjusted" by a couple .001" before delivery...Nothing like international industrial sabotage LOL

 

[JimVonBaden]

I'm all about quality over where it is built. That said, I buy quality based on the level of quality I need. For instance, I do not wrench for a living, so I don't buy Snap-on unless they are the only vendor for what I need.

As for where something is made versus jobs. I earn my living based partly on imports. Were it not for importing goods, I wouldn't have a job, and the same could be said about a large part of the US workforce!

Jim

 

[JMartel]

I buy based off of quality, though I do prefer USA/Euro/Japan/Taiwan made.

Manufacturing is coming back to the USA. This is from 2 reasons: China is demanding higher wages now, so that cuts into a lot of the savings from having it made there, and 2) gas prices. It costs a hell of a lot more to ship across the pacific now. It's always been about the bottom line. While USA manufacturing will bring jobs and many manufacturers will claim they are being patriotic again, it's all about the $$$$.

 

[arizonaadam]

My Honda and Subaru were both built in the United States. That supports American workers. I don't care if the money goes to Japan becuase Japan at least trades fairly with the US. They buy what we sell and we buy what they sell. Look at the trade imbalance between the US and China. Disgusting, and made possible by currency manipulation.

Your question is valid but your poll is garbage. Sorry. I want both, and when you buy american tools you get both. Go to Walmart. People emptying their pockets for Chinese garbage so they can "live better." What a joke. It may not be noticable yet, but the Chinese are literally buying our country. They have massive land and investment holdings. They are buying american businesses, developing houses, owning farms, etc.

 

[Super Sport]

I'm not sure that it does. The term global economy is overused, but when you've got foreign owned companies based in the US, American companies based overseas, foreign ownership of American brands, etc etc...It is very unclear where your dollar actually goes.


Furthermore, the product may be made in the USA, but with foreign sourced components, or the engineering and customer service was done in China or India...what portion of your dollar actually supports America?

Unless a company mines its own resources directly from US soil, uses US produced energy, US sourced labor, management and design staff, and all the components and sub-components are from the US, its not really "American."

Buy what makes you happy at the end of the day...anything else can be an exercise in futility.

It is questionable where exactly your dollar goes, but I know of a countless number of smaller towns in this country that rely on one or two manufacturing facilities. If those plants close the entire town suffers. The local and chain stores will in turn close hurting more people and more companies. It will have a domino effect on a lot more people than just the ones employed in manufacturing.

By your definition not many products are "American," but providing some jobs here is better than none.

 

[1Garageman]

I have no problems buy tools from anywhere with a good price, because a I am a weekend garage person who uses them. I do try to buy USA tools at yard sales, flea markets and stores on sale.

I especially like OLDER USA tools, for some reason I like them better and think they are built better.

 

[Graymills - Craig]

My first concern tends to be quality while COO comes second.

*Let the Flaming Begin*

As an American manufacturer, perhaps surprisingly I agree with you. I can't in good conscience ask a customer to spend money on a lesser product just because it's made in the USA. Most manufacturers I know would agree. I personally look at COO and try to buy American, but I wouldn't sacrifice quality.

In the long run, you win by supplying the best value.

 

[Graymills - Craig]

As to COO I try to avoid ChiCom **** but that is almost impossible now, but I do read packaging to determine COO. Food from China should be avoided at all cost.

Agreed on that!

 

[Graymills - Craig]

Made in the USA will mean something again when none of us have jobs because they've all been outsourced to the third world.

A bit of good news. We're seeing quite a bit of business (for us and other companies I'm involved with) coming back from Asia. It's a loud trickle, not a flood, but it's increasing. The issues seem to be quality, increasing Asian costs, transportation costs, transportation time (and responding to demand), and increasing US productivity. Having lived through the China decade, this is nice to see.