WAIT!!! There may be hope for Craftsman Tools!

[dsmnickk90]

And here is the essence of the Sears brand.

Sears has had a lot of difficulties over the years since the end of the catalog era. They brought in Lands End to prop up their soft goods. They bought K-Mart. They still are struggling, looking for that elusive retail formula.

I haven't been on any sewing journal boards or modeling runway boards, but I wonder if the complaining on offshoring clothing goes on to the same extent as in tools. Look in your closets and dressers. I bet most of us have labels from Sri Lanka, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, India...

I just took off my cotton Polo style shirt, read the label, and the tag says 'Made in Peru'. Huh. Didn't know they made clothing there. I'm pretty happy with Peru, they have Machu Pichu, they send us killer fruit in the winter, and they're even in the same hemisphere. I don't see where importing fruit in the winter is bad. I don't see where buying their shirts is bad either. Hopefully we are selling Peru some Fords, some wheat, and some berries in our summer.

If it's OK to buy German tools, or British tools, why is it bad to buy Taiwanese tools? If they serve your purpose? Isn't it about if the product is a good value for your intended use?

I'm not smart enough to figure out if Sears is going to make it. They do face more competition now for the homeowner. When I bought my first Craftsman tools, there was no Home Depot Harbor Freight or Lowes. Car part stores had more expensive tools, still do. Many old school companies when faced with more competition didn't do well. Look at GM: Oldsmobile and Pontiac are gone. Pan AM, a memory.

I nickname I've heard of Home Depot is "Disneyland for men" *. It might be that Home Depot and Lowes get more foot traffic from potential tool buyers than Sears ever will. More DIYers are in a Home Depot than are in Sears. Both home improvement giants have gone after Sears' market. That could be a big problem for Sears, and may be the reason they are contracting in tool volume and trying to squeeze the price point.

One thing I do know: Sears survival is dependent on much more than just tools. Which brings me back to bigbearcraig's quote.... Can Sears offer a better selection, service, and value in tools than other big box stores? I see that as a bigger issue than country of origin.

*PC disclaimer: Not trying to be sexist, but to date most tool buyers are male.

Sears didnt buy Kmart it was the other way around.

 

[RangerDaleXp]

Kmart bought out Sears in early 2005, creating the Sears Holdings Corporation.

 

[RangerDaleXp]

And this is a debate that will never end because there is the Bull Headed, The Open Minded and the people that just don't give a dam...

 

[NC-Fordguy]

Can you name a phone competitive with the Iphone that is USA made? The Androids and Blackberries certainly aren't made in the USA.

The same goes for TVs and any other electronics. They are all made with foreign components at the very least. The best TVs on the market are also foreign made.

My Ford car was assembled in Mexico with foreign parts. On the other hand my mom's Honda was assembled in the USA with foreign parts. Is supporting the US company therefore in anyway superior? The only argument is that I'm lining US CEO coffers rather then foreign CEO coffers. At least with the Honda some average Americans are getting something out of it.

Can't name one as the electronics market has all but disappeared from these shores. This goes back to the japanese influx back in the 1960s and 1970s. Cutis-Mathis was the last hold out--that didn't end well.

Now if you're going to bring up auto manufacturing I used to work in that field and will be happy to school you on the way things are at least with Japanese companies

Yea, alot of foreign companies assemble cars here. However the production managers, engineers, qc inspectors, executive management etc are almost exclusively from Japan. Basically the blue collar jobs are staffed with "americans"

There's one "executive" position though that is almost exclusively "American" is the Face guy. The Guy who is in front of the camera, holds press releases, is in the forefront when it comes to public speaking. Japanese companies are very conscious about appearances and know how to showcase their "american" plant

They are good and alot of folks buy into it, So when I hear or read that my honda, toyota, etc is more american than a chevy or ford I always find it amusing

 

[NC-Fordguy]

The short answer to that is the Germans and the British don't resort to unfair trade practices to undercut the prices of American made products.

More so our elected officials and appointees allow that to happen

 

[NC-Fordguy]

I have broken plenty of them from all vintages the warranty, and being made in the USA actually held me back from finding good tools. honestly I never bought a RP ratchet I broke the hand me downs then got them infinitely replaced so its no surprise it was unprofitable for sears to keep craftsman made in the USA maybe they should have re-engineered them to be more durable and even then corporate greed still would have moved production overseas

I often wonder why there are folks who break the rp ratchets on a regular basis and then there are those who seldom break one even if at all. I know many pros who use the stuff and don't have issues. I used to carry automatic trannys(rebuilding these isn't my thing) to the senior tech at the ford dealer. He had everything that what I've read here doesn't last in a pro enviroment. Crafty tools with a crafty tool chest. He just retired and worked for the for dealer for 40 years. No one I ever seen gave him **** on having what he had.

I work out of my shop after my real job, nights and weekends fixing or building somebodies toys to fund my toys-the number of issues I've had with crafty rp tools I can count on one hand

 

[gatewaysysop]

And this is a debate that will never end because there is the Bull Headed, The Open Minded and the people that just don't give a dam...

 

[TwoInch]

I often wonder why there are folks who break the rp ratchets on a regular basis and then there are those who seldom break one even if at all. I know many pros who use the stuff and don't have issues. I used to carry automatic trannys(rebuilding these isn't my thing) to the senior tech at the ford dealer. He had everything that what I've read here doesn't last in a pro enviroment. Crafty tools with a crafty tool chest. He just retired and worked for the for dealer for 40 years. No one I ever seen gave him **** on having what he had.

I work out of my shop after my real job, nights and weekends fixing or building somebodies toys to fund my toys-the number of issues I've had with crafty rp tools I can count on one hand

i too wonder the same. i guess i could see the last few years RP ratchets being broken, with the plastic parts and all, but im assuming people use them with pipes and leave them in the rain more, because they are cheap and because of the warranty. i used them for years, and still do on occasion, and have never actually broken one. they arent the prettiest or smoothest ratchet out there, but they arent easily broken if used as a ratchet should be.

 

[otis66]

Kmart bought out Sears in early 2005, creating the Sears Holdings Corporation.

This is when I knew the end was near. LOL

 

[otis66]

I often wonder why there are folks who break the rp ratchets on a regular basis and then there are those who seldom break one even if at all. I know many pros who use the stuff and don't have issues. I used to carry automatic trannys(rebuilding these isn't my thing) to the senior tech at the ford dealer. He had everything that what I've read here doesn't last in a pro enviroment. Crafty tools with a crafty tool chest. He just retired and worked for the for dealer for 40 years. No one I ever seen gave him **** on having what he had.

I work out of my shop after my real job, nights and weekends fixing or building somebodies toys to fund my toys-the number of issues I've had with crafty rp tools I can count on one hand

I still use my Craftsman 426 pc. diesel mechanics tool set (including 3/4 drive set), I got in 1988 from the Craftsman Industrial tools Catalog. All tools are made in USA.

 

[mhm993]

I don't buy tools at Harbor Fright, and stopped buying tools at Lowes and Tractor Supply when they stopped selling American. I'm not looking for cheapest when I purchase, but rather a good value. I've likely spent thousands of dollars on craftsman, but I'm not going to purchase Chinese product at Sears.

I needed a torque wrench, and the current craftsman line is no longer made in USA. I spent a bit more at Harry Epstein, instead.

In the modern retail world, Sears no longer has much unique reason to exist, and I suspect they're doomed. (When the time comes, I'll miss their stand alone hardware stores for the drawers of useful small parts and graded fasteners)

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

The short answer to that is the Germans and the British don't resort to unfair trade practices to undercut the prices of American made products.

Taiwan is resorting to unfair trade practices to avoid competition with American products? Sure, they're taking advantage of a pants-on-head retarded American foreign trade policy, but it's our fault for putting that into effect (and continuing to elect officials who have no desire to touch, let alone make major changes to, said trade policy). What "unfair trade practices" are you talking about, if not that?

As far as tools, Sears sells what their customers want. They did the market research and found out that the majority of non-professional consumers aren't worried about the country of origin of their tools, or whether the chrome from this brand is shinier than the chrome from the other brand, or the average reliability of a specific tool as long as there's some vague warranty statement somewhere on the package.

If it hadn't been a better move, financially, to cease US manufacturing contracts of Craftsman tools and shift those contracts to manufacturers in China and Taiwan, Sears wouldn't have done it. The vocal outrage of a (very small, financially) group of people who don't want to pay Snap-on/Mac tool prices but who don't want homeowner-grade tools from China isn't going to convince Sears to change the manufacturing of their tools - it just means SK and Armstrong will be getting some new buyers.

 

[OEXL16B]

What "unfair trade practices" are you talking about, if not that?

Taiwan is still using the Chinese Yuan which is permanently fixed in value at 15% of the U.S. Dollar. If Taiwan was to get their own currency and let it float in value like the British Pound and the German Deutschmark, that would go a long ways towards bringing them into fair trade status.

 

[raross]

May not be, but try returning them in the Oregon or Washington store's, and you will figure it out pretty quick, They Will Give You a HARD time!

 

[dankicksass]

There is nothing in the Craftsman warranty about pro mechanics.

That's not true. Every single power tool except welders under the Craftsman name is for recreational purposes only. This includes Craftsman Professional tools.

FOR ONE YEAR from the date of purchase, this product is warranted against any defects in material or workmanship. A defective product will receive free repair or free replacement if repair is unavailable. This warranty does not cover expendable parts that can wear out from normal use within the warranty period. This warranty is void if this product is ever used while providing commercial services or if rented to another person.

WARRANTY SERVICE
To obtain warranty coverage, return the product to the retailer from which it was purchased for free repair or replacement if repair is unavailable.

 

[NUTTSGT]

That's not true. Every single power tool except welders under the Craftsman name is for recreational purposes only. This includes Craftsman Professional tools.

Apples to apples, oranges to oranges. Power tools are not the same as hand tools.

 

[rhastings80]

Who is even left in the US that has the manufacturing capability to produce their tools? Thought Danaher/Apex moved most of it oversees. I don't see Snap-on/Mac/Proto doing the manufacturing for them. It's my understanding Craftsman put up for bid to have their tools produced by somebody else. Maybe SK would make them???

 

[Jcc76]

Here's some Intel for Everyone:

I was in a Sears yesterday to buy that 26-piece SAE and Metric set that is on sale this week, and I got into an interesting conversation with the Tool Department Manager, who seemed like a fairly intelligent and knowledgable guy.

He told me that he'd recently been to a Craftsman tool conference in Chicago, where they'd given him a free sample of their new ratcheting wrenches. THAT sounded pretty cool. I wish my job gave me free samples of tools to try out at home!

Anyway, there were three things I learned:

1) Sears is phasing out the Craftsman Professional brand. Apparently they were losing consumers who did not want to pay the extra cash for something that the consumers believed only "Professionals" would use. E.g. "I'm not a professional, so why should I buy the more expensive product."

2) Sears will be introducing a new line of tools to replace the Professional brand. Unfortunately, it is unclear as to whether this new line will be "Made in USA" tools, better-made Chinese tools, or merely crappy Chinese tools with new colorful packaging.

3) Whatever the new lineup is, it will NOT be called Craftsman Professional.

 

[concealer404]

The short answer to that is the Germans and the British don't resort to unfair trade practices to undercut the prices of American made products.

Such as? What does Taiwan do to undercut American prices that Germany and Britain don't?

 

[Jcc76]

I've never heard of Taiwan manipulating its currency like China. In fact, I think some of the animosity I've seen towards Taiwan on this board is a little misplaced. Admittedly, some cheaply made products are made in Taiwan, but there is a huge difference between Taiwan and China.

Taiwan and the PRC are two separate countries. Taiwan is a modern democracy while the PRC remains a Communist dictatorship that gives a free hand to big business so long as the government has its hands in the pot too. All of the issues people have with Chinese made products (e.g. environmental, human rights, quality standards, etc) are problems with manufacturing in the PRC, not Taiwan.

It gets confusing because the PRC has always claimed that Taiwan is part of China, even though they have no control over Taiwan or its government. The rest of the world, including the UN (which booted out Taiwan in 1971) goes along with this farce because Taiwan has never officially declared its independence from China (even though it's been an independent country since 1949). Reason is because everyone's scared of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, and the U.S. does not want to risk the lives of Americans to defend the island.

Granted, Taiwan has made cheap junk in the past, but at least your money goes towards the free industry of a modern democratic country (much like South Korea), rather than a freakshow nation like the PRC.

 

[pipsters]

Such as? What does Taiwan do to undercut American prices that Germany and Britain don't?

Germany has a very protectionist trade policy, not much you can import there without some really high tariffs

 

[concealer404]

Germany has a very protectionist trade policy, not much you can import there without some really high tariffs

I don't see what that has to do with shady things that Taiwan does to USA customers.

 

[FordExplorer]

Just to throw it out there, electronics are coming back to the US very slowly. Element just started to make 100% American HDTV's and they have advertised in accordance with that. Apparently they are swamped with orders

 

[RangerDaleXp]

Just to throw it out there, electronics are coming back to the US very slowly. Element just started to make 100% American HDTV's and they have advertised in accordance with that. Apparently they are swamped with orders

100% Made here with foreign Components

 

[OEXL16B]

Such as? What does Taiwan do to undercut American prices that Germany and Britain don't?

Just do a Google search under Currency Manipulation. I can't explain it to you on this forum because we're not supposed to go there with the discussions.