HOA crushed my dream building

[6t5Goat]

First let me say, I have been a lurker on this site for almost 4 years and this is my first post... The wealth of knowlege on this site is quite amazing.. Any question I've ever had I've found the answer using the search function. I love the maturity that is shown on this site. Most everyone on here has the same/similar interest and ideas..

Now.. On to my question.. I am looking for opinions on how to proceed with my HOA..

I currenttly have a 2 1/2 car garage that is a side entery..

My plan was to add a pull in garage 25 deep 35 wide with 1 16 foot garage door to match my original 16 foot door and attached with a short breezeway.. and a second story that would serve as a wood shop (which is currenttly in my basement)

The building would be offset from the property line by 20 feet at the closest point..

Well.. the HOA crush those plans.. They don't allow outbuildings.. No sheds or Detatched Garages.. (Breezeway made my plans attached).. They also don't want the footprint of the house to expand toward the side property lines in order to "Promote Harmony" in the neighborhood.. (my neighbors house sits 15 feet off the property line.. )

What should be my next step with my HOA?

Hire a lawyer and fight for my dream? Or..

Just add on to my side entry garage? This would limit the size of my new garage to a single car.. maybe 18 feet wide.. as I don't want to cut up my backyard too much..

This option would satisfy my current needs.. of getting all my current toy cars in a garage at my house..

but.. this would mean my wifes car stays outside.. and.. I might want to add at least 1 more car to the toy box in the future..


Here is a pic of the current all filled up garage.. I have another 1970 Chevelle also that is in the garage of a relative.. but.. that situation is going to need to end soon as that house will be going on the market to be sold in the spring...

What would you do? I need to store at least 3 cars.. + parts +space to work...

Thanks

Mike

 

[6t5Goat]

I guess I can't post pics from Picasa..

 

[Stuart in MN]

Welcome to the forum, but I'll warn you that HOA discussions never have happy endings...half the people rant about how restrictive they are, the other half will point out that you signed a contract when you moved in.

 

[6t5Goat]

I understand that I signed a contract.. And.. I plan on following the rules..

My HOA does a great job of keeping things nice..

Has anyone fought the HOA in court? and won?

I'd hate to add 10% to the cost of my building with legal fees.. but.. if it keeps the dream alive..

I feel my building complies with the covenents of the community..

 

[38Chevy454]

You need to read and understand the exact requirements in your covenants. Once you have that, you can build anything within those rules. Trying to say a short breezeway makes it connected is not going to pass the requirement for no detached buildings. A breezeway would not be considered an attachment by most reasonable person's assessment.

My suggestion if you have to keep the detached garage where you want is to enclose the breezeway. You could even put doors at each end to save heat/cooling transfer. Make the breezeway a bit wider than just ahallway, you could put shelves on either side. Wider makes it less like a breezeway, get the idea? Or move your garage to be closer.

You may have to give up some of your backyard. The problem is exactlyas stated by Stuart, you bought the hosue with those rules in place, so you have to work within those. Your chance to get a variance form the rules sounds like next to none chance for success. Fighting in court will only prove you do or do not meet the rules. You sound able to determine that yourself.

 

[holland_patrick]

Well.. the HOA crush those plans.. They don't allow outbuildings.. No sheds or Detatched Garages.. (Breezeway made my plans attached).. They also don't want the footprint of the house to expand toward the side property lines in order to "Promote Harmony" in the neighborhood.. (my neighbors house sits 15 feet off the property line.. )



Mike

Sounds like they Might be out side of the rules here and they are imposing what they THINK is right... Bake some cookies,bring some beer or what ever and talk to the people you made this choice. Tell them what you want to do and ask them how to do it... I'm guessing they may have some Ideas if approached right...

 

[blk00ss]

Move. HOA are for suckers!

 

[6t5Goat]

I hear what you saying about the breezeway... And I have had similar ideas about how to get around that issue..

But.. The "Promote Harmony" in the neighborhood is the covenent that they have me by the short and curlys.. there is no language that states you can't expand toward the side property lines.. they are saying it doesn't "promote harmony" to expand the foot print of the house toward the sides.. They state they will only consider additions to my foot print that expands to the back property line.. which is all wooded..

 

[Gary S]

Move. HOA are for suckers!

Exactly. MOVE! Never buy a home where there is a HOA. You can try to fight, and you will lose because unless you build the same garage for everybody and pay for their garages, you won't get a majority vote.
Sell and move to a more sensible place.

 

[6t5Goat]

http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/1965Goat/?action=view&current=008.jpg

http://s1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/1965Goat/?action=view&current=802BRC.jpg

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

Sounds like they Might be out side of the rules here and they are imposing what they THINK is right... Bake some cookies,bring some beer or what ever and talk to the people you made this choice. Tell them what you want to do and ask them how to do it... I'm guessing they may have some Ideas if approached right...

Normally HOA agreements go beyond city or regional ordinances on setbacks, BRLs, easements, that sort of thing. As long as the homeowner signed the HOA agreement, they're bound by HOA rules as defined in the contract, whether they like them or not.

However, since "promote harmony" isn't strictly defined and the decision by the HOA is conditional, a good lawyer might give them a nice kick to the nuts and get the decision reversed.

 

[signcrafter]

I hear what you saying about the breezeway... And I have had similar ideas about how to get around that issue..

But.. The "Promote Harmony" in the neighborhood is the covenent that they have me by the short and curlys.. there is no language that states you can't expand toward the side property lines.. they are saying it doesn't "promote harmony" to expand the foot print of the house toward the sides.. They state they will only consider additions to my foot print that expands to the back property line.. which is all wooded..

Did you ask them about the fact that your neighbor's footprint is 15' from the property line and the closest you will be is 20' to the property line? Tell them you won't be limiting "harmony" any more than the neighbor already limited the "harmony".

I've never dealt with a HOA and I don't think I ever want to. City/town ordinences are usually enough to handle what needs to be handled and HOA are just there to collect money and try and have a couple people that have nothing better to do than tell others what they can't do.

 

[Imcrazy]

Is the phrase "Promote Harmony" really in your covenants or HOA rules?

I can't believe an undefined and vague term like that would fly anywhere. OR is this just something that the HOA is trying to promote?

 

[6t5Goat]

"Promote Harmony" is in the letter they sent me.. I don't see it actually in the covenents.. there is something about protecting property values.. which is also vague.. I don't have the actual covenent document with me now.. but I'll double check when I get home..

 

[richtersrodz]

I can't give my opinion til I see more pictures of that GOAT!!!
Can you put a lift in the garage? Maybe bust out the ceiling and raise it. It may be cheaper.


Edit: What skyking said...

 

[skyking]

I would never want to kill anyone...therefore I will never live in a HOA.

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

"Promote Harmony" is in the letter they sent me.. I don't see it actually in the covenents.. there is something about protecting property values.. which is also vague.. I don't have the actual covenent document with me now.. but I'll double check when I get home..

If it's not in the covenants/agreements anywhere, and the HOA refuses to change their decision, a letter from a lawyer might be enough to get them to switch.

If "promote harmony" is in the HOA agreement but it doesn't have a definition or has a very vague definition, I'd still probably talk to a lawyer. You could also talk to your neighbor on the side where the garage would be built and get their input - if they don't care, and there's nothing specifically defined in the HOA agreement, I doubt there would be much they could say in court to keep you from building.

 

[kmacht]

The biggest thing to remember when working with a HOA is that there are things that they want and things that they require. Only what is specificly listed in the covenants is what they can require. Anything outside of that is something they Want and can't enforce. Read the covenants and see where you stand. Until you do that everything else said here is just speculation.

Keith

 

[mayday0017]

To much to read here.... But if no one has said it, Play nice with your HOA.... You can very politely ask them what modifications would be required for you to be able to have a building there to take care of your needs.

Make your HOA mad, such as taking them to court.... you will regret it the rest of the time you are there. My neighbor had $15,000 in fines she refused to pay because she got into it with the HOA and they picked her apart over every single little thing. Me on the other hand I kiss their *** every chance I get and now I have a building that is not allowed that has their stamp of approval.

A HOA with a reason to come after you is the same as a cop with a reason to come after you. It's not about what is fair anymore, they can and will find anything they can to make you pay.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Brad54]

Frankly, it sounds like you have to choose between two dreams: Living in a neighborhood with an HOA, or building your dream shop.

Imagine what pricks they will be for the rest of your life if you take them to court. They'll write you up for everything.
And it'll be worse if you actually win.

-Brad

 

[buzz4041]

You can ask the HOA if they have any suggestion for what you are trying to accomplish. They may solve the issue for you if your lucky and might be of some help. I am only dreaming here but it may be worth asking.

 

[Weekend_warrior]

I hear what you saying about the breezeway... And I have had similar ideas about how to get around that issue..

But.. The "Promote Harmony" in the neighborhood is the covenent that they have me by the short and curlys.. there is no language that states you can't expand toward the side property lines.. they are saying it doesn't "promote harmony" to expand the foot print of the house toward the sides.. They state they will only consider additions to my foot print that expands to the back property line.. which is all wooded..

Like it was said, if the "promote Harmony" is not clearly defined then its of no matter and if it were in the rules I would consult a lawyer as to what you can do. If your neighbor is OK with the build then harmony is perserved anyway. It won't matter what any future owners think about it as they can either by the home or not. Your build needs to fit within the rules in the document, not the HOA commities beliefs.

You need to read them and understand them to plan the build. Try not to get into any "grey Areas" as they are not clearly defined and could cause some battles.

While I agree with the premious of a HOA I don't agree with all of the rules and methods of enforcement either. I like the fact that the values will hold and possibly increase. Most of the "enforcement folks" are busy bodies with nothing better to do than nit pick other people.

 

[JDC]

Tell them what you want and ask them for ideas. If they won't let you build anything, move. I never liked the idea of owning property and having a board tell me what to do with it. And to all the people that keep talking about keeping the value up, its a myth. We have seen that over the past decade.

 

[W_KY]

I serve on the ACC for my HOA. I would say either ask the ACC for ideas on how to make it in compliance (if they are like us we technically aren't suppose to give suggestions which baffles me why we can't). Or send a letter to the board. I know in our case the ACC can make a ruling but you can appeal to the board. The board is normally who will set precedents (like allowing wrought iron fences if one has never been done up to this point).

 

[signcrafter]

To much to read here.... But if no one has said it, Play nice with your HOA.... You can very politely ask them what modifications would be required for you to be able to have a building there to take care of your needs.

Make your HOA mad, such as taking them to court.... you will regret it the rest of the time you are there. My neighbor had $15,000 in fines she refused to pay because she got into it with the HOA and they picked her apart over every single little thing. Me on the other hand I kiss their *** every chance I get and now I have a building that is not allowed that has their stamp of approval.

A HOA with a reason to come after you is the same as a cop with a reason to come after you. It's not about what is fair anymore, they can and will find anything they can to make you pay.

Just my 2 cents

I've never dealt with a HOA but this post tells me that I never ever ever want to be in one. Why in the heck would I want to kiss *** to a group of people who think they control the neighborhood just to get my way and HOPE they don't start nit picking my house and fining me 15,000 dollars! Ya right. Kissing *** and hoping some HOA board member doesn't pick on me sure sounds like the American Dream to me!

 

[Mickey O]

Give the neighbor and the HOA a coke and build the garage. From the overhead picture it looks like you can raise the roof-line and add a whole lot to that garage.


Long term solution:

Get on the HOA board, make new rules, build garage and harass people that used to be on board.

 

[The Frisco Kid]

The biggest thing to remember when working with a HOA is that there are things that they want and things that they require. Only what is specificly listed in the covenants is what they can require. Anything outside of that is something they Want and can't enforce. Read the covenants and see where you stand. Until you do that everything else said here is just speculation.

Keith

This is the best response I've seen yet.

 

[The Frisco Kid]

If your neighbor is OK with the build then harmony is perserved anyway.

I think that they are referring to the fact that no other residence will have a large shop in the front (how they see it) and this does not preserve harmony throughout the neighborhood.


Check with the architectural committee and see why they specifically rejected it, and ask if there are other ways to work it out. Most likely you're going to spend more $$ on lawyer fees if you try and shoehorn it in the front. Might be easier if they are not flexible and/or helpful to pour a driveway around back and built it there.

 

[James E]

I have two suggestions.

1. Talk to the neighbor on that side (if you haven't already) and get his buy-in to your plan. It's hard for the HOA to say you're being disruptive if the neighbor being affected has no problems with your plans.

2. Sit down with the architectural committee and ask them if they have any suggestions about how you could work your plan out. If what you want to do fits the HOA guidelines but they can't offer any workable solutions, then you can make the case that their turn-down is unreasonable. This suggestion depends totally on whether or not the committee members are reasonable people. Sometimes they are not.

In my situation, the very first person I spoke to after I had plans drawn up was my neighbor. He was so surprised and pleased that I asked for his buy-in and input that he basically told me to do what I wanted and he'd be fine with it. That helped alot with the HOA.

I also had them come out to look at the lot and the plans after I submitted them so it looked to them like I was a real team player. I had heard so many stories about them being Nazis that I went out of my way to appear to play nicely.

 

[mopar66]

The 1st house I bought years ago we where not allowed to have detached buildings either. I wanted to put up a garage and connect it to the house using a breezway to get around the detached problem. My local building inspector approved it as a attached garage and I went ahead and built it even though the HOA originally turned me down. But I do agree that playing nice will get you better results than what I did. I got lucky that it worked out. This was also an older neighborhood so over the years others had done stuff that was overlooked.

 

[6t5Goat]

Well..

The chair of the Design Review Board expressed and interest in checking out the cars..

So.. I have invited him to come over and go for a ride.. then we can open a few adult beverages and discuss how to promote "Harmony" in the neighborhood.. as well as how to build a big f'ing garage..with in the rules..

 

[LutzTD]

Well..

The chair of the Design Review Board expressed and interest in checking out the cars..

So.. I have invited him to come over and go for a ride.. then we can open a few adult beverages and discuss how to promote "Harmony" in the neighborhood.. as well as how to build a big f'ing garage..with in the rules..

i love it, catch more flies with honey and grease , having a car buddy on the HOA ought to get it moving along.

 

[ed_v]

Quite frankly, you will be fighting a battle that's not worth fighting imo. I own a townhome in the Chicago area that has a HOA. I have submitted requests for things I want to do around the place many times that comes back denied, even though it is not listed anywhere in the bylaws that it is forbidden.

I did what many others here suggested.... I moved!. Bought a small farm in Kentucky with little to no restrictions on what I can or cannot do on my property.

Good luck on your dream.... but if they are dead set on you not doing this, you will do nothing but waste time and money.

Ed

 

[FltEngCPO]

I agree that you need to "play nice" with the HOA or they will come after you with a vengance! Open a dialog with them to see where you can compromise. Are you planning a metal building that doesn't look as nice from the street that they want hidden? If so, maybe you can offer to brick it to match your house for more curb appeal? Possibly build it in a way that will let you modify it later or "take down" part of it.... Like build that nice enclosed breezeway that looks more like an office and later put some doors in it that can be left open or take the wall out later... There is a way to make this work for you. You just need to communicate your wants and desires and find out how to make it fit their "harmony." My city code would not let me put a full bath in my shop or a guest room so I made an office and a 3/4 bath that is big enough to convert the shower to a tub if I want to later on. I also was only allowed a one story so I raised teh roof line a little 2' above HOA allowance and then lowered part of the ceiling to allow for a taller attic and have since closed off the open part with a door and it will now be a 12x16 game room/bar. I provided good drawings and elevations to show how good it would look. Spend that lawyer money on an architect to make some awsome renditions or maybe a model to show how it will fit in the hamony of the neighborhood and how it will increase your property value and consequently the rest of the neighborhood. Get creative and think outside the box.

 

[Crazy68Dart]

We looked for nearly two years for the house we are in. Many of the places we visited were HOA neighbourhoods. After looking at a few contracts I quickly realized it would not work for me. I keep my property very nice, but when I am told what color, what type, etc. etc. for items on *my* property that is where I draw the line.

I would personally not go to battle with them, it will haunt you. Do you have a feel for how your neighbours feel about your plans? If they are also against your plans you are in for a lot of heartache.

Can you add on to the front of your garage to make it deeper?

 

[UncleJoe]

Time to find out who exactly is on the HOA committee and who can be a reasonable ally. Ask around the neighborhood. Find out who is who and which ones are jerks and who is reasonable. A few beers with a reasonable committee member may be your best bet.

If they are all pricks then you are left with just one last resort......bang their wives

 

[rsanter]

How about a simple discussion with them to see what the opposition was and what would work for them that you could do and stay within their guides

Then do you research and fight if you think you are in the right. But starting with a fight is never the right way to do things

Bob

 

[wnstwolf]

What? The guys starts out by saying what a buch of knowledgable folks we are and he always gets answers to his questions and not one of you gave it to him..

Two words: CONCRETE UNDERGROUND!

Sorry I had to move due to a HOA so I am keeping quiet!

 

[6t5Goat]

Two words: CONCRETE UNDERGROUND!

I've drolled over that thread.. I think his budget is 100 times what mine is..

 

[djd99]

I would move that's the only option in my book, I will not let any1 excecpt for the township to tell me what I can and can't do. Sell your house and build your dream shop!
I live 2 miles from town, have 13 acres of property with 3 garages If I want another garage I simply build another. Sorry but I despise HOA's