Will this be economical or another nightmare?

[Dustin Crawford]

I am just starting to layout the electrical in my 24x28 detached garage. My uncle closed down his shop and retired about 7 years ago and we saved all his lighting for my shop. They are old T12's and I have more than enough. I have (5) 8' T12's and (10) 4' T12's. All double bulb units.

Anyhow I was excited because I had all my lighting. But now I wonder if there is any logic in using them and will I be forced to change down the road?

I dont know anything about these guys. Any help would be appreciated.

Dustin

 

[FluxCore]

Don't sweat the T12's. They are quick and cheap to upgrade later to T8's.

I'd use first all the 4' fixtures, then only as many of the 8' as required....I would also break them into 3 separate switched 'zones'.....You can switch wire it left/right/center...or back/front/center, or be creative and scatter the lighting loads equally thru the shop off each switch.

I've got a 24X26x8 shop and all my lighting (15 4' twin tube fixtures) were free salvage units that I converted to T8 recently....It's like daylight in there.

 

[Dustin Crawford]

Cool, that's exactly what I was wondering- if it was worth converting or just starting with T8's. Do they still make the 8 footers?

 

[FluxCore]

Cool, that's exactly what I was wondering- if it was worth converting or just starting with T8's. Do they still make the 8 footers?

Yeah they make 8' fixtures, but the ones I'd buy use 4' tubes...4' tubes you can buy almost anywhere, they are cheap, easy to transport and ballasts too are cheaper and easier to find.....plus with the 4' tubed 8' fixtures, it's easy to wire half the tubes to operate off one switch, and the other half off another switch.

 

[FluxCore]

P.S., don't throw out any working T12 ballasts or tubes. Save them for sale/trade because soon you won't be able to buy them

 

[Dustin Crawford]

I see. Thanks!

 

[ForceFed70]

Personally, I wouldn't use T12's even if they were free. But, I suppose if money is tight.

9 x Commercial quality Quad 4' lamp T8's cost me $400 and is more than enough to light my 32x40x12 shop. Converting later is easy yes, but it's still going to cost 50% of the cost of a new fixture and take a bunch of your time. Might want to figure what your time is worth.

 

[FluxCore]

Personally, I wouldn't use T12's even if they were free. But, I suppose if money is tight.

9 x Commercial quality Quad 4' lamp T8's cost me $400 and is more than enough to light my 32x40x12 shop. Converting later is easy yes, but it's still going to cost 50% of the cost of a new fixture and take a bunch of your time. Might want to figure what your time is worth.

Money is never 'tight' for me, but it's like home brewing of handloading ammo...I never 'save' money with either, I just shoot and drink more, yaknow?

 

[ForceFed70]

Money is never 'tight' for me, but it's like home brewing of handloading ammo...I never 'save' money with either, I just shoot and drink more, yaknow?

Yup, you sound like me. I buy used when I can afford new.

I chose to go with new T8's when I could have had T12 for free (my dad owns an electrical company and they are always tossing T12 fixtures).

T8 has advantages: instant-on even in cold temps, better efficiency, more modern electronic balasts (no buzzing, no flickering, less EMI), etc.

For me it was worth it to spend the extra $$ now instead of having to screw around with it later especially with a 12' ceiling.

 

[FluxCore]

Yup, you sound like me. I buy used when I can afford new.

I chose to go with new T8's when I could have had T12 for free (my dad owns an electrical company and they are always tossing T12 fixtures).

T8 has advantages: instant-on even in cold temps, better efficiency, more modern electronic balasts (no buzzing, no flickering, less EMI), etc.

For me it was worth it to spend the extra $$ now instead of having to screw around with it later especially with a 12' ceiling.

I agree with going new...but now-a-days most new T8 fixtures offered in the big box stores come with super cheap Chinwanese ballasts that seem to fail almost instantly...Yeah, I know some last, but don't expect them too.

I wish my dad was still alive and ran an electric company. I'd have the best american made stuff at cost

 

[eljefino]

How old are they? If the ballasts were made before 1977 ish they could be chock full of PCBs which you don't want to allow in your house.

 

[FluxCore]

How old are they? If the ballasts were made before 1977 ish they could be chock full of PCBs which you don't want to allow in your house.

Yup, those PCB's are bad for you...I lived for years inside submarines with lighting transformers that dripped PCB's...once the hazard was 'discovered' they applied warning stickers to them...yup.

Thank God for the stickers or I'd never known....oh, my main job responsibility then was to manufacture and maintain the atmosphere aboard nuclear submarines.....Oh, and I also somehow survived countless yard periods where the engineering spaces were clouded with asbestos dust 24/7....about the only thang that bothered me was when they welded on zinc plated stuff, but the Navy had plenty of free milk to drink 24/7.

Don't be skeered, Friend. It's still a Man's world. Don't forget just 200 years ago Men carved this whole country out of wilderness...Yup, we really did.

 

[where2]

Yup, those PCB's are bad for you...I lived for years inside submarines with lighting transformers that dripped PCB's...once the hazard was 'discovered' they applied warning stickers to them.

Rinsed that oily PCB dribble off with TCE, didn't ya? Sadly, in college chemistry class in the '90s I was the only kid who knew what the instructor was talking about when he asked if anyone know what MEK was?

Can someone point me toward a good write up on electronic ballasts in fluorescent fixtures. I'm curious what these 4' drop ceiling lights I picked up for my garage have for guts.

 

[FluxCore]

Rinsed that oily PCB dribble off with TCE, didn't ya? Sadly, in college chemistry class in the '90s I was the only kid who knew what the instructor was talking about when he asked if anyone know what MEK was?

Can someone point me toward a good write up on electronic ballasts in fluorescent fixtures. I'm curious what these 4' drop ceiling lights I picked up for my garage have for guts.

Get some sleep.....grill a steak and drink a beer or 12 and forget it....if they are electronic ballasts they are safe to sleep next to and even lick...Promise

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I am just starting to layout the electrical in my 24x28 detached garage. My uncle closed down his shop and retired about 7 years ago and we saved all his lighting for my shop. They are old T12's and I have more than enough. I have (5) 8' T12's and (10) 4' T12's. All double bulb units.

Anyhow I was excited because I had all my lighting. But now I wonder if there is any logic in using them and will I be forced to change down the road?

I dont know anything about these guys. Any help would be appreciated.

Dustin

My feeling is you are wasting your time. To get them to work suitably, you will probably need to replace all of the lamps. I'll bet the ones in them are darkened on the ends and put out half the light they should. As far as 8 ft ones, if they use the 8 ft bulbs, you really don't want to deal with them, difficult to handle, easily broken, and unless they are T12HO they don't have enough light output to be worth the installation.

I took down the old 8 ft T12's (not HO) over my workbenches and replaced them with T5HO fixtures, which I'm very happy with. Gave the old fixtures to the Habitat for Democrats ReStore, they were happy for them, as they are in an old, very old, wooden warehouse building by the RR tracks, and don't have a lot of lights in there.

Charles

Both old T12 fixtures with 2 ea 8ft 96 watt bulbs (non HO fixtures)

Old on the left, new T5HO on the right with four ea 54w bulbs. Notice how much higher the fixture sits, gives you and idea of how much lighter it is than the old one.

 

[ForceFed70]

I agree with going new...but now-a-days most new T8 fixtures offered in the big box stores come with super cheap Chinwanese ballasts that seem to fail almost instantly...Yeah, I know some last, but don't expect them too.

I wish my dad was still alive and ran an electric company. I'd have the best american made stuff at cost

Yes, I would also reccomend avoiding the home depot $22 specials for that reason. For stuff like basic T5 fixtures, Dad can't get me a much better price. He basically just kept an eye out for a good deal/sale and let me know when it came up (I was hoping he'd come across some T5's for free but got tired of waiting). It's one of those items that the big electrical supply places sell for little profit to bring the customers in and then they make money on all of the other stuff you buy at the same time. Kinda like lumber at the home improvement stores.

When I told Dad I didn't want any cheap chinease **** he told me that it's all cheap chinease **** nowadays unless I want to get into the really high end stuff for big bucks. He said that the best way to ensure I got a good fixture at a decent price was to make sure that I got a fixture rated for commercial use. Apparently all of the big manufacturers make fixtures rated for commercial and the only real difference is that it comes with a better balast.

 

[FluxCore]

Yes, I would also reccomend avoiding the home depot $22 specials for that reason. For stuff like basic T5 fixtures, Dad can't get me a much better price. He basically just kept an eye out for a good deal/sale and let me know when it came up (I was hoping he'd come across some T5's for free but got tired of waiting). It's one of those items that the big electrical supply places sell for little profit to bring the customers in and then they make money on all of the other stuff you buy at the same time. Kinda like lumber at the home improvement stores.

When I told Dad I didn't want any cheap chinease **** he told me that it's all cheap chinease **** nowadays unless I want to get into the really high end stuff for big bucks. He said that the best way to ensure I got a good fixture at a decent price was to make sure that I got a fixture rated for commercial use. Apparently all of the big manufacturers make fixtures rated for commercial and the only real difference is that it comes with a better balast.

YES, it really is that simple....It all boils down to the ballast....

That said, if the fixtures are free and they are t12, then simply convert them to t8 using quality USA made ballasts...now you have 'commercial'....it really is that simple.

My fixtures are at least 20 years old...they were salvaged from defunct hospital...super heavy duty, but sported T12 mag ballasts and tubes.....a simple and quick ballast and tube swap for 20 bucks each made them better than any new chiwanese big box **** for same $$... lots better.....it takes 5 minutes to upgrade to T8 tubes and ballasts and you will soon be able to sell old T12 ballasts and tubes for half cost to upgrade to t8....DUH

 

[Dustin Crawford]

YES, it really is that simple....It all boils down to the ballast....

That said, if the fixtures are free and they are t12, then simply convert them to t8 using quality USA made ballasts...now you have 'commercial'....it really is that simple.

My fixtures are at least 20 years old...they were salvaged from defunct hospital...super heavy duty, but sported T12 mag ballasts and tubes.....a simple and quick ballast and tube swap for 20 bucks each made them better than any new chiwanese big box **** for same $$... lots better.....it takes 5 minutes to upgrade to T8 tubes and ballasts and you will soon be able to sell old T12 ballasts and tubes for half cost to upgrade to t8....DUH

Ooo, I like that one.

 

[Dustin Crawford]

So it looks like I need to at least buy a few new ones. So do I just go for any one labeled 'commercial' or is there more to it?

The only places to buy them that come to mind are Home Depot or Lowes. Any better spots I am missing?

 

[acer66]

Do I understand this right that it has to be a T12 so you can upgrade it to T8?

 

[Dustin Crawford]

No, the ones I buy new I will just be T8's. But the price from Home Depot/Lowes is from $18-35 with no option for anything 'commercial' and seemingly no difference between them.

So basically I heard to get USA commercial ones. But all I see is $18 ones, or overpriced $18 ones ($35) for what seems like the same thing.

 

[pattenp]

You want to stay away from commercial rated ballast, they can cause radio interference. You should get residential rated ballast if you want lights that won't cause humming in your radio, that is if you play a radio in your garage.

 

[ForceFed70]

You want to stay away from commercial rated ballast, they can cause radio interference. You should get residential rated ballast if you want lights that won't cause humming in your radio, that is if you play a radio in your garage.

Commercial and Residential ballasts must adhere to the same EMI standards. Typically comercial are actually better in this regard.

Why do you think commercial ballasts create more noise?

 

[mrtoolfool]

I would not mess with the T12's. Go get some new T8 fixtures.
Not only are the T8's going to be more energy efficient, quicker at start up, better in cold temps, they are also BRIGHTER.

I changed out over a dozen good working 8 foot fixtures about 5 to 6 years ago at both my business and in my garage and have never had a ballast problem These lights are on 10 hours a day 7 days a week.

I put up the 8 foot - 4 bulb - Lithonia lighting from Home Depot.

For the money and the time of doing it twice, put up T8's and don't look back.

 

[mrb]

commercial ballasts make more noise as they dont have as much filtering as residential grade. there are a couple different standards.

where does one get these 'quality usa made ballasts' i dont think there are any. fed gov issued a buy american waiver for ballasts, and although i am aware of a mfgr that makes one in mexico for nafta I dont know of any usa ballasts.

 

[Dustin Crawford]

commercial ballasts make more noise as they dont have as much filtering as residential grade. there are a couple different standards.

where does one get these 'quality usa made ballasts' i dont think there are any. fed gov issued a buy american waiver for ballasts, and although i am aware of a mfgr that makes one in mexico for nafta I dont know of any usa ballasts.

My point exactly. Sound like I can happily go buy 18$ ones. Good news!

 

[KenC]

I have converted a few 8' fixtures to t8 and love 'em.

Bought the ballasts off eBay. Got a deal on a case of 8', T8 single pin bulbs, full case (24) for $5! Once in a lifetime opportunity at an auction.

Still need to convert a few more to get the whole shop updated. But, just doing them as I need to.