Rubber Air Hoses - Manufacturer's POV

[rishavrastogi]

(I'd posted this on an air hose thread and when suggested that I should start a new thread, here I am. Just to justify the redundance.)

Hi. I'd joined my family business of manufacturing and exporting air, water and welding hoses from India a few months back and have been involved in quality control and r&d.
I stumbled upon this thread and it seems like a very good source. I mean, ultimately, you all are going to judge the product. We do sell to many stores in the US and until recently the quality was average, but now we are improving and trying to give the best value products. (I know they compete with 'made in US' products, but we gotta eat too

There is little trend of diy here in India, and you guys seem pretty serious about all this, so if you could help me make a better product that'd be kind. In return, maybe, I can send some free samples to get some beta testing results .

I know the question's too vague but what exactly do each of you look for in an air hose?
For example, if the use is static under sun, we'd make it in EPDM and it would last really long.
If it is dynamic (includes run over by a car under sun, we'd use a blend of neoprene and natural rubber with sufficient ozone resistance and great strength.
If it is dynamic/ static inside, we'd go for natural rubber only.
If it involves slight contact with oils, then EPDM. Substantial contact, NBR. Then again, it depends - which oils?

I'd be glad to send free samples. We have a warehouse in the US too. Any help will do.

- just another kid trying to learn good, fair business.

 

[WILD-BILL]

what exactly do each of you look for in an air hose?

 

[Andybull]

I just received 4 Goodyear 300 psi hoses to install in my Samson 1650 reels.

 

[charle10]

A flexible (low memory), tough (abrasion resistant) and chemical resistant airline that doesn't lose its characteristics in hot or freezing temperatures. An airline that turns rock hard at freezing temperatures is worthless to me.

 

[Gary S]

I agree with charle10. I live in a cold climate. The hoses in my garage need to stay flexible at temperatures down to +10 degrees F. My garage drops to +15 to +20 degrees F when left unheated in winter, so the hose needs to handle temps a bit lower than that.

 

[metaldad]

great point, Charlie.
i have the original one that came with my P/C pancake compressor. stiff as a board, even when at 90 degrees.
i saw HF has USA Goodyear black 'rubber' airlines...........

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

Primarily, hoses that resist cracking. The environment I use them in goes from 115F in the summer to 30F in the winter, and that seems to destroy hoses fast.

Good flexibility is also a major factor, as some hoses require very small bend radii to get to where we need them, and the ability to handle high pressure safely. We've had two blowouts at 180-200psi, and do bi-weekly checks on all hoses and throw away anything with a crack in it.

Reliable non-leaky connectors are a priority, too.

 

[RKA]

Well, as long as you're talking about DIY use air hoses, I think charle10 hit the nail on the head. Flexibility at extreme temps is big. Abrasion resistance is second. Some kind of strain relief near the fittings since that's where most hoses tend to break first. The chemical resistance and UV resistance tends to be less of an issue in a home garage (at least in mine it is). Something rated for 300psi+ would give me some confidence that it will hold up even though I won't subject it to more than 150psi. Weight and flexibility can't go into the toilet to achieve that psi rating though.

If I can be quite candid, even if you build a quality product, you still have an uphill battle. My tendency would be to dismiss it because it's made in china/India and because it's not from a brand I know and trust. A decent Goodyear hose isn't all that expensive to begin with, why should I take a chance with your product? You'll find that mentality common among people that you deal with.

What part of India are you from?

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

The last part of RKS's statement is what you will be up against. With inexpensive, American made, Goodyear hoses that I have used since the 70's, why would I risk or (for that matter) want to buy a foreign made hose? Even the bargain shoppers that don't seem to care where anything is made will buy a Goodyear hose over an import if they are of the same construction and within 10 to 15% of each other in price just because of name recognition alone.

 

[metaleltr]

High flexibility in all reasonable working temperatures, good quality brass hose ends, long lifetime. For example we have a hose that is about 20 years old. It is easy to coil, and uncoil(flexibility), and this hose has ends that have lasted the entire life of the hose. Another good feature that helps to improve lifespan and durability is molded on strain relievers on either end of the hose.

 

[JASTECH]

+1 above. I get -20° F in some winters, so far this month 106°F. They get drug over concrete in the shop and chemicals then dirt/rocks.

 

[rishavrastogi]

Thanks. And yeah, we have been selling to and exhibiting at US for some time now, so I've been told that Made is USA is a really potent marketing point. And for valid reasons too, I guess. The stores that sell our hoses buy them from us at half the price that they pay for Goodyear's (we've confirmed data) and sell them after adding a huge margin. So, that's one reason why foreign made hoses seem to be of lesser quality than the Goodyear ones. Other than that, Goodyear is definitely a master of rubber, I can't deny that.

For good cold weather flexibility, natural rubber will be really good. We've tested our natural rubber hoses (NR is readily available in India and thus our preferred choice for our basic ranges, at least). It is abrasion resistant (used in airplane tires) and will not crack indoor, but has poor resistance to chemicals and oils.

Anyway, here are some of our mid-range products:
Choose one for yourself, and I WILL TRY to send samples. I can't confirm the color as of now. All are 300PSI (WP) Polyester Braided Hoses (3/8" ID with NPT Brass fittings)
1. Cover: NR-Neoprene Blend; Excellent strength and abrasion resistance, Decent Ozone resistance, Great low temperature flexibility, Average Oil Resistance
Tube: NR, Excellent Strength, Great low temperature flexibility, Poor oil resistance

2. Cover: EPDM; Excellent Ozone Resistance, Great life under static conditions, Good Oil and chemical resistance, Good cold weather flexibility.
Tube: EPDM; Same as above

3. Cover: NBR; Good strength and abrasion resistance, Excellent chemical and oil resistance, Poor ozone resistance and average low temperature flexibility.
Tube: NBR; Same. Average adhesion between plies.

I may be able to get customized tube-cover combinations, but I can't guarantee. 50' of these hoses should be available at retail stores at about 20-25$ when not promoted. We sell these to them at around $9 FOB India.

And we are based in Jalandhar, Punjab.
Thanks, again.

 

[rslaback]

I would say the EPDM would work best for most of us. It should be pretty flexible for cold weather use but also survive being dragged about on the shop floor.

 

[metaleltr]

i would be interested in a sample of hose number 2

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Reality is, Goodyear does not manufacture the hoses, they only license their name to be put on it. They are, however, American made. Goodyear got out of the hose business years ago. I think the packaging for the GY hoses I bought at Northern even say who actually manufactured them.

I don't have any problems with foreign made if the quality is there. Many times its not. I have some hose reels I bought from Lowes on the great $25 price matching deal that was discovered on here three or so years ago. Oddly, I mounted the reels and never hooked them up, as I never installed the buildings air plumbing. I have noticed that the hose on these reels (china made) is rotting just from sitting on the reel in the shop, and I will have to replace them before I connect them to an air system. This is a red rubber type of hose.

Its amazing how much shipping and mark up adds to a product. The 50 ft GY branded hoses at Northern are $29.

Charles

 

[pipsters]

I bought several 50' USA Goodyear 3/8" rubber hoses for $15 earlier this year and that can be done day in and out at Harbor Freight w/ their 20% coupon. You really can't go much cheaper than that IMO. The really cheap hoses ****, and those are all foreign. The only import hose I would buy is the Flexzilla stuff, but it's over 2x what the rubber Goodyear ones are.

 

[RKA]

The other application you'll find DIYers using these are for small portable compressors running nails guns and other small items. For this, light, flexible with little memory is best. Thinking back these were the traits that resulted in spending a premium on a hose vs your garden variety Goodyear hose.

 

[Mastermind]

+1 for the FLEXZILLA style hoses,something as flexible and light as that with a better price point (and color choices!) would be a game changer.

Note: i love flexzilla green myself, but the boss wouldn't buy one of those "hideous" hoses...until the matco man walked in with an orange one. i know it sounds interior designerish...but tools can be coordinated. plus crews could each get thier own color to keep things straight.

 

[DougB442]

Thanks. And yeah, we have been selling to and exhibiting at US for some time now, so I've been told that Made is USA is a really potent marketing point. And for valid reasons too, I guess. The stores that sell our hoses buy them from us at half the price that they pay for Goodyear's (we've confirmed data) and sell them after adding a huge margin. So, that's one reason why foreign made hoses seem to be of lesser quality than the Goodyear ones. Other than that, Goodyear is definitely a master of rubber, I can't deny that.

For good cold weather flexibility, natural rubber will be really good. We've tested our natural rubber hoses (NR is readily available in India and thus our preferred choice for our basic ranges, at least). It is abrasion resistant (used in airplane tires) and will not crack indoor, but has poor resistance to chemicals and oils.

Anyway, here are some of our mid-range products:
Choose one for yourself, and I WILL TRY to send samples. I can't confirm the color as of now. All are 300PSI (WP) Polyester Braided Hoses (3/8" ID with NPT Brass fittings)
1. Cover: NR-Neoprene Blend; Excellent strength and abrasion resistance, Decent Ozone resistance, Great low temperature flexibility, Average Oil Resistance
Tube: NR, Excellent Strength, Great low temperature flexibility, Poor oil resistance

2. Cover: EPDM; Excellent Ozone Resistance, Great life under static conditions, Good Oil and chemical resistance, Good cold weather flexibility.
Tube: EPDM; Same as above

3. Cover: NBR; Good strength and abrasion resistance, Excellent chemical and oil resistance, Poor ozone resistance and average low temperature flexibility.
Tube: NBR; Same. Average adhesion between plies.

I may be able to get customized tube-cover combinations, but I can't guarantee. 50' of these hoses should be available at retail stores at about 20-25$ when not promoted. We sell these to them at around $9 FOB India.

And we are based in Jalandhar, Punjab.
Thanks, again.

I'm in for an EPDM

Thanks for the new thread rishavrastogi

 

[skiingman]

Thanks. And yeah, we have been selling to and exhibiting at US for some time now, so I've been told that Made is USA is a really potent marketing point. And for valid reasons too, I guess. The stores that sell our hoses buy them from us at half the price that they pay for Goodyear's (we've confirmed data) and sell them after adding a huge margin. So, that's one reason why foreign made hoses seem to be of lesser quality than the Goodyear ones. Other than that, Goodyear is definitely a master of rubber, I can't deny that.

We do appreciate Made in the USA, but even moreso I appreciate products made with care by someone who listens to their customers.

Can you tell me what names I'd find your product under in the US? I'm always happy to support a family business, and I can't always justify the price of a Goodyear hose.

 

[metaldad]

i would be interested in a sample of hose number 2

X2....

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

The NBR would be fun to play with - static lines are all hard plumbed for us and ozone resistance isn't a concern for the location.

 

[Andybull]

I'll try an NBR.

Thanks,

 

[Mastermind]

i would love to put a NR through the paces for ya in a bodyshop enviroment.

 

[cheechi]

2. Cover: EPDM; Excellent Ozone Resistance, Great life under static conditions, Good Oil and chemical resistance, Good cold weather flexibility.
Tube: EPDM; Same as above

Can you be more specific about the 'static conditions' please?

 

[andywander]

I'd like a sample of #1....

 

[Burgerkong]

Couple of questions, what's considered low temperatures and how thick are the walls? I would like a hose that is resistant to kinks, yet at the same time pliable and supple.

 

[JASTECH]

I hhave a red GY that is about 25yrs old, I have a Snappy yellow and 3 Seneco 50'ers. I bought a 50' red hose from Home Cheapo just for tires/shocks stall and it started comming apart from outer layer via UV conditions so I am 1 hose short. I would be willing to try one there and pull the GY red and try different one there. The Snappy has protective sleeve on both ends and high burst strength. Colour is a benefit, bright colour is easier to see and for me I may have a tool on each hose and pull hose like rope to bring other air tool over to me. Sometimes up inside of 4x4 so they get dragged a bit and swivel on ends are a plus to me.

 

[rishavrastogi]

I'll try to arrange some samples. I see most are interested in EPDM hoses.

By static, I mean that they would, most of the time, just lie there as a connection or just not used/ moved much. EPDM would be fine then, it's just that they're not as resilient as the NR/ Neoprene hoses.

Low temperature: we've tested our down till -40F, but practically they should be fine down till around -20F (except NBR, it's not as good).

The wall thickness (tube+cover) would be around 3-3.5mm for 3/8" hoses.

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

most mechanics pay more to get MADE IN USA

 

[rishavrastogi]

^ I'm sure they have good reason. But I don't see one good enough to not try
Anyway, I'm trying to arrange samples. I hope people who want don't have very strict color preferences. These are the samples I've ready, tell the no. you want and then we'll talk via pm.

1. (BLACK) Tube, Cover: EPDM. 200PSI W.P., 800PSI B.P., 3/8" with NPT.
Medium Oil Resistance, excellent ozone resistance and static age.
2. (RED) Tube, Cover: NBR, 300 W.P. 1200 B.P., 1/4" with NPT
Excellent oil resistance and age.
3. (RED/ BLACK) Tube: Natural Rubber, Cover: Neoprene Blend: 300, 1200. 3/8" with NPT.
4. (RED/ BLACK) Tube: Natural Rubber, Cover: Neoprene Blend: 300, 1200. 1/2" with NPT.

I will manage 25ft samples of these and they will be shipped in the next LCL shipment which leaves in 15 days from India for our warehouse in NJ.

 

[metaleltr]

Number 2 please

 

[PT Doc]

^ I'm sure they have good reason. But I don't see one good enough to not try
Anyway, I'm trying to arrange samples. I hope people who want don't have very strict color preferences. These are the samples I've ready, tell the no. you want and then we'll talk via pm.

1. (BLACK) Tube, Cover: EPDM. 200PSI W.P., 800PSI B.P., 3/8" with NPT.
Medium Oil Resistance, excellent ozone resistance and static age.
2. (RED) Tube, Cover: NBR, 300 W.P. 1200 B.P., 1/4" with NPT
Excellent oil resistance and age.
3. (RED/ BLACK) Tube: Natural Rubber, Cover: Neoprene Blend: 300, 1200. 3/8" with NPT.
4. (RED/ BLACK) Tube: Natural Rubber, Cover: Neoprene Blend: 300, 1200. 1/2" with NPT.

I will manage 25ft samples of these and they will be shipped in the next LCL shipment which leaves in 15 days from India for our warehouse in NJ.

Number 4 please.

 

[Burgerkong]

2 please!

 

[yasha32]

Number 2 please.

I would have to agree with alot of points made regarding color choices as well. The hoses all seem to blend together when the guy next to my stall pulls out some hose.

 

[The Frisco Kid]

I'd use a 2 or a 3, if you please.

 

[dirtrider]

I would also be more than happy to try out any of the above hoses.
Made in USA is also very important to me as well, but I can appreciate anyone being honest and open enough to engage in an open forum and ask questions and involve us as members of GJ.

 

[metaldad]

# 2 or #3 would be nice!

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

I'd give #3 a shot.

 

[RECox286]

Imagine the worst possible envoirnment; cold, hot, sunny, wet, dry, chemical spills and fumes,

you name it. Getting run over, stepped on, in the mud, over rocks...and still won't leave marks

on what ever it is being dragged over, like hand rails, finish carpentry, car bodies,

etc. Then, of course, be competitive in price to what is already on the market.

Well, you asked...

Uncle Bob