Ideal In-Sure™ Push-In Wire Connectors

[Bib Overalls]

Bought some of these the other day to wire up some florescent lights. It was my first experience with them and I was impressed with how easy they were to work with and how much neater the connections were. I am going to use them Sunday to wire up some outlet pig tails. Lowe's has them in small quantity packs. I got 250 of the three port #33s for $25 at my electrical supply house which works out to about ten cents a pop.

I'd like to know what the professional electricians here think about these gizmos.

http://www.idealindustries.com/prodDetail.do?prodId=in-sure&div=0&l1=push-in

 

[ishiboo]

Bought some of these the other day to wire up some florescent lights. It was my first experience with them and I was impressed with how easy they were to work with and how much neater the connections were. I am going to use them Sunday to wire up some outlet pig tails. Lowe's has them in small quantity packs. I got 250 of the three port #33s for $25 at my electrical supply house which works out to about ten cents a pop.

I'd like to know what the professional electricians here think about these gizmos.

http://www.idealindustries.com/prodDetail.do?prodId=in-sure&div=0&l1=push-in

Every professional electrician and know-it-all here pretty much distrusts them, as well as the AMP/Tyco NM taps/splices.

Fact of the matter is they're allowed by NEC, UL-listed and have a successful track record so far... but they are still considered risky by those who can't grasp innovation.

I'm sure when wire nuts came out in the 1920s it was the same thing, like PEX's recent rise to popularity in the US.

 

[ForceFed70]

I've got to admit, I'm one of those guys ishiboo is talking about. I just don't trust them. No reason why other than I cannot see how one of these connectors could provide a more robust connection vs a skillfully applied wire nut.

Having said that. This is probably a great item for a newbie/unskilled electrician as there is certainly some skill and technique required to get a good connection with a traditional wire nut whereas these connectors can by used by anyone who can strip insulation from a wire.

 

[jhelrey]

I like them because they are fast and you can use them while the circuit is hot. Sometimes I have to do work on a hot circuit and it just works.

 

[rabidsquirrel]

Haven't used them a lot, but we had a problem with one in a fixture that came from the factory.

Heard some buzzing in the fixture, opened it up and the 277v was arcing and lighting the connector up like a light bulb.

 

[ezriderga]

I've never tried these. I've just always used wire nuts, even on hot circuits. BTW, most of my electrical work has been replacing ballasts on 4'/8' fluorescent lights, and a lot of them. Never had a problem with wire nuts.

 

[abstamaria]

I wish I could get those here. They look very neat.

Andy

 

[walrus]

I'd never use them with a load over an amp or 2. Lighting maybe, motor load never. I can see making money on those though, fixing them when they **** up.
Back stab recepts were innovations also, how'd that workout?

 

[Aceman]

We only use those for ballast retrofits and that's it. I also remove them from can lights....

 

[rockwithjason]

i have made lots of money over the years replacing these kind of connections. typically it's a high load circuit and the connector loses all of it's spring, then the wires burn up or fall out. nothing in my house has them.

 

[jhelrey]

I've only used them on ballasts

 

[FluxCore]

Savvy folks call those "push and pray" connectors...Yeah, they are fast, but don't hold up under higher current loads....Who cares what their voltage rating is, it's amps that matter when it comes to connections....Think voltage for insulation, amps for connections.

All connecters that style use a little springy strip of brass(usually) that allows you to shove wire in, then it kinda sorta acts like a storm door lock on the hydraulic closure rod in that it grips the wire and prevents it from moving back out....it offers VERY little contact area with the conductor.

Once micro-arcing starts there, it quickly gets worse until resistance is so high the connection fails completely.

Yeah, use it on ballasts cause that is the type connection made on the tube sockets already.

In all my life, i've never had a wirenut connection fail, but i've seen plenty of back stabbed outlets allow their magic smoke to escape.

 

[rlitman]

In all my life, i've never had a wirenut connection fail, but i've seen plenty of back stabbed outlets allow their magic smoke to escape.

THIS! This is why smart people distrust these, before even using them.

Heard some buzzing in the fixture, opened it up and the 277v was arcing and lighting the connector up like a light bulb.

And my identical personal experience with this (on a 277v fluorescent ballast) is why I distrust them even more now.

 

[ddawg16]

One of those P&P's failed in a can light at the inlaws house....burned the connector....

In my experience....when they work, the work fine....but....do fail....

 

[mobiledynamics]

I use these in wiremold outlets - where it's super super SUPER tight....
Anything else, wirenuts...anyday

 

[abstamaria]

Thank you for sharing the wealth of your experience, all. As a rank amateur, I really appreciate it. Back to wire nuts for me.

Best,

Andy

 

[Displaced Hokie]

Bummer, sounds like folks have had real world failures from them. Looks like they could make life a lot easier and wiring boxes neater. Oh well.

 

[FluxCore]

There are yet other safe choices...Don't forget insulated crimp connectors....properly crimped, they are better than wirenuts, but must be cut/snipped off.

 

[DeuceDude]

Knock on wood.....
My whole garage is wired with these things. A little over a year on them. Wired compressor too. I hope they work for the long haul, cause I think they are the next best thing since sliced bread. I hate the sight of a wire nut after using them. They are expensive though. For a 15 to 20 Amp circuit seem robust enough, no worse than a stab in outlet or switch, and they have been around for years. They are reusable, not sure I like the idea, but did do it a couple of times with good results. Quick, easy to tuck in the box, take up less room, did I mention quick...
Only time will tell...

 

[FluxCore]

The whole "quick" thang is driven by the building industry's desire to cut cost of labor.

Cheap back stab components are designed to attract the contractor seeking to cut corners and save money on labor costs..Time is money for him. Once his warranty period expires, he's history and the homeowner is stuck with it.

 

[Greatbear]

I use some push-in connectors (Wago, Ideal, etc) with success, but only in low current applications like lighting and automation. For everything else, wire nuts.

 

[Executive]

I was taught and I teach my students now that all splices must be mechanically and electrically secure. I consider the wire nut just an insulating cap used to cover a splice that has already been twisted together. Yes, I know that the wire nut manufacturers (all of them) get their product UL listed so that no pre-twisting is required. As mentioned above, this is a labor saving concept, not a quality work concept.

If I'm doing an installation where a better connection than a wire nut is required, like a larger pump motor with heavy vibration, I use a Buchannan crimp with an insulating cap.

I will continue to require that my students and anyone working for me do it my way and recommend that others take my advice.

Chris

 

[Identaltech]

they used these in our shop at work. after about 4 year they started to fail one by one. each one melted down. I would not trust them at all after seeing them in action.

 

[FluxCore]

I was taught and I teach my students now that all splices must be mechanically and electrically secure. I consider the wire nut just an insulating cap used to cover a splice that has already been twisted together. Yes, I know that the wire nut manufacturers (all of them) get their product UL listed so that no pre-twisting is required. As mentioned above, this is a labor saving concept, not a quality work concept.

If I'm doing an installation where a better connection than a wire nut is required, like a larger pump motor with heavy vibration, I use a Buchannan crimp with an insulating cap.

I will continue to require that my students and anyone working for me do it my way and recommend that others take my advice.

Chris

No pre-twisting with wirenuts?....Not me. I stab all conductors straight into wirenut, then twist..of course I only use only metal springcore nuts, tho....then tape with quality USA made tape stretching tape to make sure it pulls nuts in tight direction.

On high amp connections I use ony hydraulic crimps then tape using self vulcanising rubber tape....My coworkers hate me whenever they have to go in and remove my connections..They ***** about the tape and crimps....But I ain't not never had one fail

Usually our pump motor and fan motor failures are related to single phasing in starter/contactors cause our electricians don't rack the stuff out and do switchgear maintenance....I've got 1200 amp contactors only rated for 200 cycles but often they don't get attention until they vaporize and first fry a motor....but never my connections

 

[cyamaha2007]

Ive seen many of those fail. Now any time i change florescent bulb at work i cut that ******* child of a connection out and replace it with a good ol wire nut.

 

[Executive]

Ive seen many of those fail. Now any time i change florescent bulb at work i cut that ******* child of a connection out and replace it with a good ol wire nut.

That "******* child" is required by the National Electrical Code: 410.130 (G)(1)

...fluorescent luminaries that utilize double ended lamps and contain ballast(s) that can be serviced in place shall have a disconnecting means either internal or external to each luminaire. For existing installed luminaries without disconnecting means, at the time a ballast is replaced, a disconnecting means shall be installed.

Chris

 

[Speedy Petey]

I am VERY curious as to exactly what it is many of you are seeing fail. I have used those Ideal and Wago connectors in the past (not extensively though) and have never seen one fail or been back to replace one.

I HAVE however seen many wire nut failures over the years. Quite a few to the point where the plastic has completely melted away leaving only the burned spring on the wires.

I am also curious as to what purpose folks think tape has. It is NOT required, NOR does it help a properly made wire nut splice. It's not like it is going to hole the wire nut tight.
All it does is leave a stick mess if you have to remove it.

 

[ForceFed70]

That "******* child" is required by the National Electrical Code: 410.130 (G)(1)

...fluorescent luminaries that utilize double ended lamps and contain ballast(s) that can be serviced in place shall have a disconnecting means either internal or external to each luminaire. For existing installed luminaries without disconnecting means, at the time a ballast is replaced, a disconnecting means shall be installed.

Chris

So, the push in wire connector qualifies as a disconnect?

There must be other ways to meet this requirement rather than using this type of connector.

 

[cyamaha2007]

The fixtures at my work are pluged into a receptacle in the ceiling. I wonder if thats considered a disconnecting means? Ive found the wires burnt off flush with the bottom of the plastic case. Also ive found more that are inconsistent connections( you could wiggle them and the connection was re established) Ive also seen them browned inside(think blown fuse color).

 

[Executive]

So, the push in wire connector qualifies as a disconnect?

There must be other ways to meet this requirement rather than using this type of connector.

My mistake.

I assumed that you were referring to the orange disconnect that ships with all new fixtures. It does use push in type connections and it is capable of being separated for a positive disconnect.

Read here:
http://www.idealindustries.com/whatsnew/press_releases/view.jsp?yr=2007&news=powerplug-feb-2007\

Chris

 

[FluxCore]

That "******* child" is required by the National Electrical Code: 410.130 (G)(1)

...fluorescent luminaries that utilize double ended lamps and contain ballast(s) that can be serviced in place shall have a disconnecting means either internal or external to each luminaire. For existing installed luminaries without disconnecting means, at the time a ballast is replaced, a disconnecting means shall be installed.

Chris

Yup, but that Rule does not apply to dwellings or dwelling outbuildings like our personal shops/garages, and even then there are 5 exceptions.

PLUS, no one says the disconnect HAS to be the stab wire type...The stab wire disconnects are offered as a "time/labor" saver which makes them attractive to contractors wishing to save labor costs.

All of my fixtures except my CFL's plug into overhead duplex outlets 6" from the light.

 

[ForceFed70]

PLUS, no one says the disconnect HAS to be the stab wire type...The stab wire disconnects are offered as a "time/labor" saver which makes them attractive to contractors wishing to save labor costs.

I think Executive cleared this up on his last post. He was thinking we were talking about a different type of connector.

 

[rlitman]

. . . I HAVE however seen many wire nut failures over the years. Quite a few to the point where the plastic has completely melted away leaving only the burned spring on the wires. . .

This would be an installer error though (either not getting the wires properly secured inside, or using aluminum, etc.). Have you seen wire nuts that failed, when installed correctly?

The push-in connections are pretty hard to install incorrectly, but are known to fail anyway.

 

[Speedy Petey]

The push-in connections are pretty hard to install incorrectly, but are known to fail anyway.

I am completely honest when I say I have not seen a failed one yet.

You are right about the wire nuts, but that's my point.
Non-pre-twisters, who do not make up the nut properly, have the highest failure rate IMO.
It's too easy for a non-pro to mess up a wire nut splice. Then folks try and overcompensate by using too big of a nut or taping it on thinking that will help "keep it secure".
I LIKE those Wago's, especially for DIYers. They are almost fool proof.
And for us pros, they can save the day sometimes for really short old wires, tight spaces, or for things like 4-5 switches in a box with one feed.
Then there is also the time saving advantage on jobs where you need to get in and out quickly.
Again, I don't nearly use them exclusively, but I do have a bunch of them on my truck, for those special times.

 

[FluxCore]

I am completely honest when I say I have not seen a failed one yet.

You are right about the wire nuts, but that's my point.
Non-pre-twisters, who do not make up the nut properly, have the highest failure rate IMO.
It's too easy for a non-pro to mess up a wire nut splice. Then folks try and overcompensate by using too big of a nut or taping it on thinking that will help "keep it secure".
I LIKE those Wago's, especially for DIYers. They are almost fool proof.
And for us pros, they can save the day sometimes for really short old wires, tight spaces, or for things like 4-5 switches in a box with one feed.
Then there is also the time saving advantage on jobs where you need to get in and out quickly.
Again, I don't nearly use them exclusively, but I do have a bunch of them on my truck, for those special times.

As a former state fire marshal mechanical inspector, I once crawled thru the attics of a 200 unit apartment complex in Layfayette, La....I was inspecting their commercial water heaters....I was shocked.

I found several electric water heaters wired with aluminum where the wire nuts had melted away and left only the internal nut spring coil attached to the wires....Same could have happened with copper if improperly sized or improperly applied, so let's don't start a copper/aluminum battle. Let's instead learn how to propely select, then properly apply wiring and components using learned skills and codes written in blood.

 

[MeentSS02]

As unpopular as these items tend to be, I used them to wire up 4 additional circuits in my garage, all 20 amp. I've run some serious loads through them, and haven't had an issue, but they've only been in place for about 2 years, and aren't used constantly like they might be in a work environment.

I'll be sure to report back if either the circuit fails or my house burns to the ground.