MIG Weld Wire for Sheet Metal Repair

[Dan in Pasadena]

Ok, I need opinions from the experienced among you, NOT just a knee jerk reaction:

Yeah, so it's Harbor Freight - no one panic, remain calm!

I'd never seen .023 wire there before yesteday. I don't know if it's new or I just missed it before. Cheap enough at $6.99 a roll, but then I wondered if it is fine to use? Will it make the work harder (in some way?) for someone who is already an inexperienced welder?

I'll be welding with a Hobart Handler 140 and before anyone makes the inevitable recommendation - no, I'm NOT upgrading to a 220v machine any time soon. I'd love to, but its just not necessary for what I'm doing. Thanks for any advice.

 

[ctb]

.023 is .6ml which is the size most small machines use in Europe. I keep .8 ml (.031) on mine for welding steel from car body thin to 3/8", but mine's 3 phase. Changing wire is a pain and it's a 15kg roll.
I see the wire's made in Italy so personally I'd give it a go. They make a lot of welders in that country.

 

[MP&C]

I believe it's ESAB that has an "EZ-grind" welding wire. I don't think you'll find it at that store, but your local welding supply should have it. I haven't tried it yet as I have a ways to go on my 50lb spool, but have it in my sights for the next roll..

 

[rsanter]

The thinner wire is for welding thinner material as it is less likely to burn through or blow holes.
I used to use it for automotive sheet metal work but now I just use the 30 as I have learned over the years to do sheet metal with the 30 with no trouble
I do keep a spool of 23 on hand just in case I have to deal with thiner material

Bob

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

Thanks guys for the comments. Yes, I know this thinner stuff is for sheet metal. I will be using it for rust repair on my '55.2 truck that is in THIS thread elswhere:

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101884

I hadn't even noticed that "Made in Italy" label so that would seem to be a "better-than-China" indicator to me at least.

Is "ESAB" a compnay name, or what? I apologize for my lack of knowledge.

 

[lotsoftools]

ESAB is a well respected name in the welding industry

 

[MoonRise]

ESAB is a big name in welding.

Check http://www.esabna.com for info (that's for ESAB North America, btw)

Especially check out their Education and ESAB University area, tons of good welding info there.

http://esabna.com/us/en/education/index.cfm

ESAB makes/lists a wire called "Spoolarc Easy Grind", non-AWS class but made for GMAW on steel sheetmetal, as in auto body repair.

http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/FM_handbook/577fm3_3.htm

http://products.esabna.com/EN/home/...carbon_steel_spoolarc_easy_grind_no_aws_class

That said, just because the tag says 'Italy' on it doesn't actually mean it is made by ESAB and even it is made by them, it could just be made to 'spec'.

Nothing wrong with that per se, but I'm not a good enough welder to deal with fighting crappy or sub-standard welding electrodes (wire or stick). I just want the electrode to work. So I just use a 'name brand' electrode (if it said ESAB on the tag/label, I don't think I'd have any reservations about using such).

I don't go through that much wire or stick that a few dollars more for the 'name brand' electrode isn't a worthwhile trade-off (for me) versus possible crappy electrodes and the aggravation of dealing with such when trying to weld.

8 inch diameter spool of Lincoln L56 ER70S-6 solid wire (12.5 lbs) is ~$30 at Lowes or HomeDepot (I just checked on-line, $29.52 for that spool in 0.025 by me at Lowes, but the 4 inch 2 lb spool is $11.58 in 0.025 but only $5.94 in 0.035 for the 2 lbs).

YMMV.

As to 0.023/0.025 diameter solid wire and C25 shielding gas when doing GMAW on sheetmetal, yup, that's the way to go.

And a 140-amp 'class' welder (running from 120V power) is plenty for doing sheetmetal work in all but a production setting (where duty-cycle would mostly be the limiting factor and not just output power). Those 'class' machine have enough power to weld thin steel sheetmetal just fine.

 

[brownbagg]

i use the harbor freight wire and it great for welding but it will birdnest in a heartbeat. but that thinner wire make welding so easy compared to the 030 wire.

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

ESAB is a big name in welding.

Check http://www.esabna.com for info (that's for ESAB North America, btw)

Especially check out their Education and ESAB University area, tons of good welding info there.

http://esabna.com/us/en/education/index.cfm

ESAB makes/lists a wire called "Spoolarc Easy Grind", non-AWS class but made for GMAW on steel sheetmetal, as in auto body repair.

http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/FM_handbook/577fm3_3.htm

http://products.esabna.com/EN/home/...carbon_steel_spoolarc_easy_grind_no_aws_class

That said, just because the tag says 'Italy' on it doesn't actually mean it is made by ESAB and even it is made by them, it could just be made to 'spec'.

Nothing wrong with that per se, but I'm not a good enough welder to deal with fighting crappy or sub-standard welding electrodes (wire or stick). I just want the electrode to work. So I just use a 'name brand' electrode (if it said ESAB on the tag/label, I don't think I'd have any reservations about using such).

I don't go through that much wire or stick that a few dollars more for the 'name brand' electrode isn't a worthwhile trade-off (for me) versus possible crappy electrodes and the aggravation of dealing with such when trying to weld.

8 inch diameter spool of Lincoln L56 ER70S-6 solid wire (12.5 lbs) is ~$30 at Lowes or HomeDepot (I just checked on-line, $29.52 for that spool in 0.025 by me at Lowes, but the 4 inch 2 lb spool is $11.58 in 0.025 but only $5.94 in 0.035 for the 2 lbs).

YMMV.

As to 0.023/0.025 diameter solid wire and C25 shielding gas when doing GMAW on sheetmetal, yup, that's the way to go.

And a 140-amp 'class' welder (running from 120V power) is plenty for doing sheetmetal work in all but a production setting (where duty-cycle would mostly be the limiting factor and not just output power). Those 'class' machine have enough power to weld thin steel sheetmetal just fine.

Good enough 'splanation for me. I'm gonna buy the better stuff. Sounds like "penny wise and pound foolish" applies to this HF stuff. Thanks!

 

[davedriveschevys]

I welded for years with **** quality electrodes and wire and got pretty good with them. When i started buying quality wire and electrodes my welding improved instantly.
The name brand stuff is worth the extra cost.

 

[crewchief888]

ive never had much luck with cheap wire from HF or menards.
i've tried them both, (and so has a friend) with the same results, almost constant birdsnests.
all i buy anymore is lincoln wire, and after i gave him a small roll of it, it's all he buys too.

FYI
home depot sells lincoln wire, and it's cheaper than a LWS.

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

"LWS"??

I get that better quality wire will result in superior welds. What I don't get is why the cheaper wire "bird nests" more easily? Is there some big difference with how it's wound on the spool?

 

[rockwithjason]

local welding supply

 

[juiced10]

Local Welding Supply

Yes stay away from HF for wire. Just way easier to use the name brand for a few bucks more.

 

[juiced10]

Local Welding Supply

Yes stay away from HF for wire. Just way easier to use the name brand for a few bucks more.

 

[sberry]

I bought some China wire from the LWS, as as good as any I have ever used. I have never used HF but not sure how it could be night and day difference.

 

[ZRX61]

That Esab EZ Grind stuff is the dogs ********

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

That Esab EZ Grind stuff is the dogs ********

Alriiighty then. This would be a GOOD thing?

I'm gonna check online for this ESAB stuff. But you're saying my LWS (Gee, I feel so "pro" throwing around terms , ha ha) should have this or likely will not?

Now, all I have to do is FIND my local welding supplier

 

[crewchief888]

"LWS"??

I get that better quality wire will result in superior welds. What I don't get is why the cheaper wire "bird nests" more easily? Is there some big difference with how it's wound on the spool?

i dunno what it is, 3 different brands of welders wouldnt run more than 2 or 3 inches of bead before birdsnesting no matter what we did.

2 different brands of big box store wire.
i run lincoln wire at home, not sure whats in the machine at work right now.

 

[1948]

i use .023 on all my sheetmetal. you can weld up to about 1/8 inch plate with it too. ive welded 3/16s with it by preheating the metal with a torch. it all comes down to how good a welder you are.

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

Ha ha, I'm a lousy welder! That said, I'm going to learn - at least well enough to do the sheet metal repair on my truck. Since it's only a series of tack welds I don't know that I'll get a whole lot better. But if I get done what I WANT to get done, I won't care.

 

[79firebird]

023 will be fine. i work in a autobody shop and thats all we use. All these new cars are way to thin

 

[ZRX61]

Alriiighty then. This would be a GOOD thing?

Yes, as for your LWS, look up Praxair.

Edit:
Given that you're in Pasadena, maybe head over to IMS in Burbank. They have EVERYTHING

http://www.industrialmetalsupply.com/

Ya might not want to go in there with more than about $30 in your pocket the first time.....

 

[e-tek]

Ya might not want to go in there with more than about $30 in your pocket the first time.....

HAHAAHAHa - good advice!!!

If you can get ESAB EX Grind for cheap - buy a bunch!!!

From ESAB:
ESAB MIG-6 is an ER70S-6 MIG wire suited for welding over heavier amounts of dirt,rust,or mill scale. ESAB MIG-6 contains higher levels of deoxidizers(manganese and silicon)as compared to a general purpose wire such as ESAB MIG-3. The high content of deoxidizers allow welding over heavier amounts of dirt,rust, and mill scale while providing a more fluid puddle and smoother bead profile.

 

[roblouvasz]

Hi guys. I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. I've tried the HF wire before. It's basically junk. Even with properly cleaned metal, this stuff constantly left black residue and smoke all over everything. There's another fact that should be considered, even though it's supposed to be from Italy, it could be counterfiet. I like to build home speaker systems for a hobby and I've seen very convincing hi-end speakers (just the drivers themselves no cabinets) counterfieted out of China. Save yourself the hassle and spend the extra money and buy quality wire from a wellding supply store. You'll find out that your welds, especially on bodywork will go much easier. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[38Chevy454]

Just to add a little bit, the .023 is just the metric version for .025 wire as sold by US mfrs. The .025 tips will work with the .023.

 

[goonybird]

Aloha All,
Just bought a 11 LB roll of ESAB .025 Easy Grind mig wire to weld in 20 Gauge patch panels in the roof, at rain gutters, of my trusty, rusty 94 jeep cherokee.
Laying wire using C25.

ESAB EG IS easier to grind down small "weld dots" and does grind easier than the ER70S-6 .030" solid Radnor wire from the local Airgas Store.
Grinding welds still gets red hot and looks like I'm peeling molten metal away, rather than just grinding it down.
In fact, the ER70S-6 Radnor wire I got from the local Airgas DLR here on Oahu, HI is tough! But a real bit*h to grind down... which is why I opted to spring for the $90 spool of ESAB Easy Grind. Yes $90... everything cost way more here... add scarcity and shipping ... and whoaa Nelly! HOW MUCH? Filling a dive tank of gas... heart attack! oh well, where you gonna go?

Still dialing in the Miller 211 on 120V to get the flattest weld possible, to minimize grinding...
so far, 30 on the amp and wire speed scales are working the best.
Did burn through if I lingered too long... Will see how grinding the ESAB EG goes on the fill metal in my burn throughs and endless row on mig dots.
Any and all brilliant suggestions, settings for this box most welcome=>

Only have a few days after work, maybe the long weekend if I get lucky, to fill the roof holes and driver side tailgate post... the landlords let me use their carport while they're on vacation, bless their hearts, and I'm scrambling to fill the voids, before I'm back working in the exposed driveway.
Beating the 20 GA into a crude facsimile with hammers, a small vise and vise grips is an even bigger challenge.
Followed by light weight bondo, no doubt ;->

The rusted out floor pan on the passenger side from cooking by the exhaust system, is another project.

Bottom line: the ESAB Easy Grind .025" is an improvement over the standard .030 mig wire for sheet metal... worth the extra cost, in my book.

Now, off to try to trim and spark in one more small patch panel before I have to generate my 2 hours of construction inspection reports for the day.

Big MAHALO, (thanks) to all for your help.
Mike

 

[zoowho2]

Ok, I need opinions from the experienced among you, NOT just a knee jerk reaction:

Yeah, so it's Harbor Freight - no one panic, remain calm!

I'd never seen .023 wire there before yesteday. I don't know if it's new or I just missed it before. Cheap enough at $6.99 a roll, but then I wondered if it is fine to use? Will it make the work harder (in some way?) for someone who is already an inexperienced welder?

I'll be welding with a Hobart Handler 140 and before anyone makes the inevitable recommendation - no, I'm NOT upgrading to a 220v machine any time soon. I'd love to, but its just not necessary for what I'm doing. Thanks for any advice.

I use the .31 rosin/flux core wire and use 110 volt hobart handler. Saves using gas and cleans easily. I love the 110v unit, can take and use it anywhere. For big stuff..the stick welder but I get someone else to move/carry it.

 

[Bruce Amacker]

I just finished 200 hours of welding panels on a restoration using a Lincoln handy Mig (for a short time) and a Miller 135. I used a variety of .023 wire including several small spools from HF. I saw no difference between the brand name wires and the HF wire.

 

[StingRay]

The EZ grind will grind a bit easier but will also be easier to stretch the weld with a hammer and dolly after to straighten the panel back out. I find the regular ER70S a bit more more difficult to body work. If you are working long but welded jonts then think about he EZ grind. It is quite a bit more expensive though.

 

[MP&C]

I recently tried the ER70S-7 wire in place of the -6. I made no changes to welder heat or wire feed settings, just changed wire. My results were that the welds flowed out better than the -6 (better wetting to the base metal), was easier to planish with the hammer and dolly, and was easier to grind. Don't know what the cost difference is as compared to EZ grind, but the -7 is definitely a better choice over the -6 for working on sheetmetal.

 

[Zeke]

Looking around I see the ESAB EZ grind is ER70s-2. Is that correct? Any 70S-2 wire gonna work the same?

 

[MoonRise]

Looking around I see the ESAB EZ grind is ER70s-2. Is that correct? Any 70S-2 wire gonna work the same?

Nope. ESAB Spoolarc Easy Grind is a wire that is not in any AWS class.

ESAB's S2 wire is ESAB Spoolarc 65. Right from ESAB's Solid Wire product catalog "The less fluid weld puddle of Spoolarc 65 makes it easy to control when used out of position."

The easy grind wire from ESAB is made by spool arc


It should be called "easier grind"......LOL. Anyway, it is easier but that is relative to mig welding. I use it for mild sheetmetal.

ESAB is the company. Spoolarc is their name for solid wire products (as opposed to cored wires, or flux-coated SMAW electrodes, etc).

S6 wires have a bit more silicon than S7 wires, which have a bit more manganese than the S6 wires.

Higher levels of the Mn and Si deoxidizers make the puddle more fluid. The shielding gas being used also has an effect on the final weld bead chemistry, with pure CO2 (because it is more oxidizing all by itself, compared to C25) usually resulting in beads with lower Mn and Si levels than using the same wire with C25. Using the same filler with GTAW and 100% argon ersults in less 'burn-off' of the deoxidizers and thus slightly higher resultant Mn and I levels in the GTAW beads. YMMV.

http://www.esabna.com

 

[JamieK]

Just another thought...make sure your welder can handle the thinner wire. The drive wheels (for pushing the wire to the torch end)are sized to the wire that you're using, so you may have to get new ones for the thinner wire.

 

[MoonRise]

This may be useful information. Now if you could put it into language that the average welder understands. Then after you translate, please tell us in your experience how this info applies to welding in patch panels using easy grind wire. Looking forward to learning something. Thanks

Hmmm, OK, let me 'splain, no time for that, let me sum up ... (anyone get the reference? )

Use the Easy Grind and C25 for automotive sheetmetal. It's made for that.

S6 wire has more Mn and Si than an S2 or S3 wire, and thus has a more fluid puddle. If you need/want the more fluid puddle, or need/want the higher deoxidizer levels of the S6 wire over an S2 or S3 wire, then use the S6 wire.

Need/want a less fluid puddle (out of position weld, fer instance), then you might choose the S2 or S3 wire and not the S6 wire.

 

[Zeke]

Wish I knew some of that a couple of cars ago.

 

[BD1]

Easy grind, here's a online supplier in Elk Grove a Chicago suburb.



https://weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?PNUM::1:UNDEF:OR:130TF44