How to identify Square D QO panel?

[a-dogg]

Hi All,

I have 100A service at my house, and a number of old 15A circuits that have almost no load on them which I've yet to replace with new wiring.

However, I'm in a situation currently where I need to run two new 20A circuits to my upstairs room, and I'm out of slots on my panel.

Eventually I'll be building a new garage and upgrading service, replacing the panel, but that is next year earliest as we have a child on the way.

Since I need to squeeze a couple more circuits in I was hoping to either combine some old circuits or more likely buy some tandem breakers.

The thing is I can't figure out the model or age of my Square D QO panel. The only labels I can find on it refer to the model of the Box and lid.

I've taken a few crappy pics from my phone, I'm not sure if they'll help identify. You can find them here:
Picasa Album

I can find Tandem 20A single slot breakers at menards, but there are several, and I'm unsure which if any will work.

Thoughts? I have an electrician in the family, but he's hard to get here and harder to get time set aside for work, so I'd like to at least do the leg work. I have the 12-2 ready to run, and I've already made a new 2" conduit in a closet from the basement to the attic.

Thanks!
Andrew

 

[sberry]

Some have a listing on the bottom or one of the labels to tell if they accept tandems but these are common QO breakers. In this case they are not model specific, they are NOT Homelines.

 

[Steevo]

Why not just pop one out, take it to Menards with you, and find a matching tandem breaker?

 

[StumpjumperDave]

That is a QO Loadcenter.... the tandems part # you need is QO2020

 

[pentavolvo]

QO tandem break is all you need still the same one they make and sell for todays QO panels

 

[a-dogg]

Yeah, that was my confusion. (hopefully links to products fly on this board, if not apologies, I'll edit).

There is this one: QOT2020CP which is 18 and change

and this one: QO2020CP which is twice as much... 36 and change.

The cost isn't prohibitive, I just wasn't sure which was right since they are both QO Tandem breakers.

As long as I'm not creating too much additional load, is there anything stopping me from using, say, 3 of these?

-Andrew

 

[sberry]

Yes, there is a difference, not sure what it is, one says non class whatever that means? I am sure one of these sparky types will know, seems I read it but cant remember.

 

[Worsedog]

The difference between the two breakers is the QOT2020 has a hook designed to prevent its installation in a panel that limits or is not rated for tandems. The QO2020 will fit any single phase QO panel regardless of tandem limits.

 

[gatchel]

I think they call them cheater tandem breakers.

Check here:
http://www.electrical-contractor.net/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/94292/Cheater_Brakers.html
This might help.

 

[Greatbear]

By the looks of the label in the panel, it looks to be compatible with the tandem breakers. The early style had a pair of toggles mounted on each end of the breaker face, and each was the same size as a typical single breaker. The newer style has a pair of skinny toggles mounted side by side. If you look at the paper label in your panel, it shows an image labeled with "R-Handles", this would be the second toggle on tandem breakers. The newer style tandems are a direct replacement. The difference between the two styles of tandem breakers is a metal tongue that slips into the mounting rail inside the box, where the other one doesn't have this tongue. People (me included) have bought the latter breaker to use in modern panels regardless of the panel listing for tandems. These tandems are meant to be used in pre-1967 load centers that did not come equipped with the slotted mounting rails yet were compatible with tandems.

If you remove one of the breakers from the panel, you'll see both the buss bars in the center (this is where the power comes to the breaker) and the pan rail on the outside. The rail is only used as a mechanical support. Tandem-capable panels will have a metal pan rail with a slot between the round edge of the rail and the back of the panel. Panels not compatible generally have a plastic rail or a metal rail with no slots.

 

[a-dogg]

If you look at the paper label in your panel, it shows an image labeled with "R-Handles", this would be the second toggle on tandem breakers. The newer style tandems are a direct replacement. The difference between the two styles of tandem breakers is a metal tongue that slips into the mounting rail inside the box, where the other one doesn't have this tongue. People (me included) have bought the latter breaker to use in modern panels regardless of the panel listing for tandems. These tandems are meant to be used in pre-1967 load centers that did not come equipped with the slotted mounting rails yet were compatible with tandems.

So if I understand you here, the Slots on the charter marked with the "R" would be compatible with the QOT2020CP and have the Pan Rail slot?

Thanks for the info everyone.