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Generator to power the shop

Hades12

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Jan 13, 2006
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211
Location
Union Mills NC
I rent a shop that I use for doing scrap, power bill runs 55 to 60 each month. I am in there about one day per week. was thinking of getting a generator and turning off the general service. any of you guys run that way?
 
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TireTracks

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Your going to have a few grand into a big enough genny to power the place and tools, plus gas and matience. Not exactly saveing any money.
 

sickjuice

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welfare provence
Look at your bill. I'm guessing your basic charge is less than 10$, the rest being per kwh charges. Generated power will cost way more per kwh. You do the math
 

RECox286

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If it made economical sense to do it, everyone would be doing it.

It only makes sense if 1) the PoCo won't put poles up to power you

b/c you are too far out in the boonies, or 2) you absolutely need

to have power at all times, even if the grid goes down. So pay the

bill, or keep yer beer in the stream.

Uncle Bob
 

nehog

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Agreed, no generator is going to be cost effective compared to commercial power. A small generator (say 20Kw or less) would cost many times more per Kw/Hr than commercial power, mostly because of efficiencies of scale.
 

rlitman

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Agreed, no generator is going to be cost effective compared to commercial power. A small generator (say 20Kw or less) would cost many times more per Kw/Hr than commercial power, mostly because of efficiencies of scale.

Look at your bill. I'm guessing your basic charge is less than 10$, the rest being per kwh charges. Generated power will cost way more per kwh. You do the math

Listen to these people.
My home meter costs around $5 a month.

I have a 1MW diesel generator where I work, and delivered power is STILL around 20% cheaper than self-generated power, and this is in a part of the country where electric rates are as high as it gets, and isn't even adding in any operating costs beyond fuel (such as oil, service, capital costs of the required infrastructure, etc).
I've done the math here, to consider if self-generating would save us a little on the "demand" portion of our bill, by dropping the peak from the hottest days of the year, but the difference was still negligible (and a residential customer doesn't have a demand charge).

At home, my gasoline generator (I have a 5kW, and a 1kW inverter unit) power costs something like 400% of the cost of utility power when you consider the cost of fuel (ok, gasoline prices on Long Island are always above the national average, but not by more than 15%). It isn't even close.

These are best case scenarios. Worst case, you have a generator that's way oversized for your load, and your fuel costs per kW may double.

If a connection to the grid is available on-site, you simply cannot scale up your own generating to match the cost of power from the power company.
 
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Hades12

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Location
Union Mills NC
what about going with something that can run cooking oil? cuts done on the run time cost.



jul 12 to aug 13 bill was 44.45, 191 kwh




also looking at a building to move my small wood shop into, it has no power.
 
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nehog

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Fuel costs alone for my diesel generator run about 33 cents per KW/HR. Add maintenance (two gallons of oil each change, etc...) the variable costs are about 45 cents per Kw/Hr. Add the cost of the generator... Gaaaahhhhh, damn that's getting expensive!

Not practical except for emergencies, IMHO.
 

TireTracks

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what about going with something that can run cooking oil? cuts done on the run time cost.



jul 12 to aug 13 bill was 44.45, 191 kwh




also looking at a building to move my small wood shop into, it has no power.

Still more expencive than Main power. Now, if you move your wood shop into a building with no power and no chance of getting power it makes more sence.

But your still going to need a frikin huge genny. I don't think a 5kw would be enough to run lighting and tools at the same time( 5kw at 120 is only 41amps total). The starting amps used by motors can be 5 times the running amps, so a 10amp motor may draw close to 50 for a few seconds on start up. You can get away with it at home useing normal circuts because breakers limits are a combination of How many amps for how long. So 50amps for 1-2 seconds won't pop it. But you don't have that with a genny, your reserve power needs to be Big so the motor will actualy start.

Looking at my northern tool catolog, your going to have between $800 ( for the cheapest of the selection Made in china 9000W) to Nearly $3500 for a also Made in china Northstar brand 10000W.

if your serious about this, then your best bet is to find a used , really big Industreal/construction generator.

For referance, a skil 7 1/2" circular saw was about all my Uncles 2500w honda could run.
 
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sberry

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600 a year in electric, or fooling with equipment and fuel cans at 10x the cost, we miss logic in school, this is a no brainer, pay the bill.
 
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Hades12

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Union Mills NC
good info there.


Most of my tools are air, at one place. so just the lights there, and a gas powered air compressor with electric start. the wood shop has a panel saw, and a vac for the dust. Sometimes a tablesaw which is the high current draw unit.





Still more expencive than Main power. Now, if you move your wood shop into a building with no power and no chance of getting power it makes more sence.

But your still going to need a frikin huge genny. I don't think a 5kw would be enough to run lighting and tools at the same time( 5kw at 120 is only 41amps total). The starting amps used by motors can be 5 times the running amps, so a 10amp motor may draw close to 50 for a few seconds on start up. You can get away with it at home useing normal circuts because breakers are a combination or How many amps for how long. So 50amps for 1-2 seconds won't pop it. But you don't have that with a genny, your reserve power needs to be Big.

Looking at my northern tool catolog, your going to have between $800 ( for the cheapest of the selection Made in china 9000W) to Nearly $3500 for a also Made in china Northstar brand 10000W.
 

HOTFR8

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Unless the power is off alot I would not do it. But then I am going to set up a stand alone plug in the wall with a caravan power inlet fitting on the outside of my Shed in case in the future I need to do so and run a Gen set. This would be just to run the basics like Air Con or a fan in the hot weather or a heater in the winter.
 
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TireTracks

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good info there.


Most of my tools are air, at one place. so just the lights there, and a gas powered air compressor with electric start. the wood shop has a panel saw, and a vac for the dust. Sometimes a tablesaw which is the high current draw unit.

You may be able to make it work then. The Panel and tablesaws will be the killer tho. how bigs the motor on the tablesaw?
 
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Hades12

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Union Mills NC
You may be able to make it work then. The Panel and tablesaws will be the killer tho. how bigs the motor on the tablesaw?

The tablesaw is a 3hp but the panel saw is just a circular saw not a bad draw there.



anyone ever use a big Lincoln welder as a generator? I have seen the guys run power tools off of them.
 

HOTFR8

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anyone ever use a big Lincoln welder as a generator? I have seen the guys run power tools off of them.

If you do alot of welding that would be one way to run many things and simply reduce your power bill but you still have to consider fuel expenses compared to power bill expenses.

I looked at the idea myself but as I already have a welder, the welder gen set is not an option for me.
 

matt151617

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New Jersey
I know electricity prices vary greatly across the country, but $60 seems like a lot of power usage if you're only there once a week. My house and garage combined are $80/month, and I'm there every day. That's with a freezer, fridge, and pool pump running all the time.

I'd focus on power conservation. Are you keeping the space temperature controlled when you're not there? If so, better insulate/seal the building. Look for "phantom" power, like adapters, etc.
 
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Hades12

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Union Mills NC
I know electricity prices vary greatly across the country, but $60 seems like a lot of power usage if you're only there once a week. My house and garage combined are $80/month, and I'm there every day. That's with a freezer, fridge, and pool pump running all the time.

I'd focus on power conservation. Are you keeping the space temperature controlled when you're not there? If so, better insulate/seal the building. Look for "phantom" power, like adapters, etc.



The garage is not at my house, it is part of an old mill and they charge it like a small business. There is a fridge in it and that is sometimes a 2amp battery charger on.
 

eljefino

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Feb 21, 2008
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I did the math at $4/gal and 16 c/kwh and figure generator power is approx 8-15x more expensive than line. If a hp is 745 watts, carry the three, etc. ;) Or go at it backwards, a 3000 watt generator with 4 gallon tank will run 8 hours on half load (1500 watts x 8 is 12 kilowatts per tank, a tank is $16, shore power is $1.92). This is also true for "car power" as far as charging your cell phone etc.

A diesel should be 15% more efficient, and a larger generator should be more efficient as well, but not 50% more. Cut out road tax and you lose 10% of fuel cost. Still doesn't really work out.

The only way you could cut it close is if you somehow use waste generator heat to heat your shop, but in NC that shouldn't be much of an issue.
 

HOTFR8

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The garage is not at my house, it is part of an old mill and they charge it like a small business. There is a fridge in it and that is sometimes a 2amp battery charger on.

So it is industrial rated, perhaps a call to the power company and a few words telling them you are unhappy about the bill you have to pay given the times you use the place. You never know they may look at your bill and change the rating.
 
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Hades12

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Union Mills NC
No lights needed today.

0915120908a.jpg
 

StaggeringGoat

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Oregon
I like to read and learn, seems like a group of guys like hangs out here would look at this as a challenge, not just with a no and "can't be done"

You're not the first guy to get tired of paying the power company. At my shop the basic service fees are more every month than the energy charge. It's still the cheapest way to get power, BY FAR. You simply cannot compete with the power company.

Even if you ignore the purchase price of the generator, and the cost of fuel, you're still going to pay more every month in maintainence than you do at the power company.
 
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