Max torque rating for ratchets - coarse tooth vs fine tooth

[ls1dreams]

Has anyone been able to find any specs for the max torque rating on ratchets?

Very curious to see a comparison of say, the F936 (36 tooth) ratchet vs the F80 (80 tooth).

I've been told that the coarser tooths are stronger, less likely to skip teeth, and less easy to gum up, but not sure how accurate that is.

Would love to see actual max torque specs on these models or similar.

I just purchased the Williams B-52EHA (F936) for $30 shipped, but might be having some buyer's remorse that I didn't move up to one of the finer toothed models (F80 for $55 or Armstrong Matco Maxx 88 equivalent for $45 or so).

 

[sdguy55]

Alot. For both.

 

[lwlobo]

I haven't seen actual data, but maybe someone has some.

Anecdotally, I've heard Snap On dealers say they rebuilt the 36 tooth ratchets more often than they do the Dual 80's.

The fine tooth designs are quite strong, because they have so many teeth engaged at once, although each tooth is weaker. It seems once most people use the 80's or 88's, they're looking to upgrade their coarse ratchets. I know I did.

 

[RaptorDuner]

I have the FHLF80, FHL80, FK80, F80, & SHLF80A and they all have been bulletproof. I am a heavy equipment mechanic and I don't abuse them but they are used hard. My Snapon dealer said the Dual 80's are significantly stronger than the old 36 tooth.

 

[NinetyTwoFifty]

You're probably not going to break a standard length 3/8 ratchet without putting a pipe on the handle, fine or coarse.

 

[wreckerman5357]

Coarse tooth *****. Seriously though, get a Dual 80, you won't use your coarse tooth ratchets any more.

 

[tbobbo]

I am a snap on ratchet junkie. While I love the dual 80 stuff, I keep finding cheap older ones that I cant pass on for the money. I traded in a long handle fixed head 720 on a locking flex head 80, but I bought it back (deal definitely was in my favor) I am about to break the new on and I am taking it easy on it. That old 720 has been threw hell and back! I have tried to break it and I cant! My favorite ones are the 820 series. I also keep finding them used, and I love it! I just put transmission assembly grease in them and they are very smooth and have never slipped or auto reversed. I even have to do my coworkers cause they like it so much!
I grab my dual 80s first, but if its a tough bolt I switch to a older one. I have cheatered the older ones and never broke them, I have not needed to put a cheater on a 80 and my long one has 4 broken teeth on the inside. I will have it rebuilt, but I have been hard on the snap on guys warranty lately. Im gonna give him a break!

 

[jjoel]

I will say with my cheap craftsman, I was able to snap off the nuts on my u-bolts when doing a leaf spring changeout on the f150... this was also using a 6 ft pipe as as breaker bar!

 

[tbobbo]

My dealer says he did do more course teeth ratchets rebuilds to.........now he has been warranting the whole ratchet cause the gears are so strong the handle bends or breaks! Looks like the weak point has changed.

 

[blacK20]

The dual80 is stronger than the previous generation 36 tooth ratchets. Like somebody else has mentioned, the fine teeth are smaller but there are way more teeth in contact at once so the total contact area at any given time is greater for 80 ratchets.

 

[rlitman]

The dual80 is stronger than the previous generation 36 tooth ratchets. Like somebody else has mentioned, the fine teeth are smaller but there are way more teeth in contact at once so the total contact area at any given time is greater for 80 ratchets.

That's true for a dual80, but not for other manufacturer's fine tooth ratchets, which are indeed not quite as strong as a coarse tooth.

 

[blacK20]

Oh ya. I only have experience with SO's. Not sure about the other truck brands.

 

[SINISTER]

Not sure, I have broken the part where the socket snaps on before I stripped any teeth on my long handle 80. I assume its a lot and other parts of the tool fail before the gear.

 

[Danglerb]

Maybe look at ASME B107.100?

 

[ls1dreams]

Damn. Now really regretting buying the F936 clone. I guess I can at least justify it slightly since it was cheaper than the F80. ($30 shipped vs. $55 on ebay new).

That Matco 88 looks like it was rated well - kind of wish I bought the Armstrong version for $45.

 

[oldtools]

There are so many variables involve. It depends on tooth size, tooth length, number of teeth engagement, pitch diameter, and material properties.

 

[GoBlue]

Here's what i have found:

Snap-on
F80 250 ft/lbs (from product of the month on their Facebook page)

Cornwell
JR72 260 ft/lbs ( from Youtube: they broke one on Stacey David's Gearz)

Matco
88th 275 ft/lbs (On the flyer when they came out 3300 in/lbs= 275 ft/lbs)

Talking to dealers they say they have to repair coarse tooth ratchets more than the new ones.

I have many Matco 88s as well as Snap on dual 80's. While the Matco ratchets are nice, they are NOT as strong as the Snap on dual 80s. The Matcos tend to jam up when you really get on them while the Snap on doesnt. YMMV but ive seen this with multiple ratchets

 

[Bart Simpson]

　
3/8" DUAL 80 ratchet mechanism = up to 280 ft. lbs.

1/2" DUAL 80 ratchet mechanism = up to 700 ft. lbs.


Snap On claims that the Dual 80 is " the smoothest , strongest ratchet on the planet ".

See video in link.

 

[Fedwrench]

It depends on the design of the ratchet. Round head with teeth cut into the ratchet body or pear head where gear and pawl meet.
In the old days most ratchet designs only had two pawl teeth engaging the gear or teeth in the ratchet body. In those days coarser meant thicker teeth and more strength over a fine toothed ratchet of the same design.
However many ratchets today feature a floating pawl design where 7 to 9 pawl teeth are meshed with gear teeth. This design provides great strength in a fine tooth design. To mea anything over 60 teeth is overkill but, that's just me.

 

[ls1dreams]

Would love to find a torque rating for the old F936 (36 tooth) if possible.

Just want to see how it compares to the F80.

 

[otis66]

I would never use a pipe on my Snap On ratchet......That's what Craftsman ratchets are for.

 

[Drunken Yak inc]

I would never use a pipe on my Snap On ratchet......That's what Craftsman ratchets are for.

I'm the same way. I was removing a caliper mounting bracket with a 3/8 snap-on dual80 offset flex head with soft grip and needed to use a jack handle as an extension... I just started to put some force and suddenly stopped, called myself a ******* and went to the toolbox to grab a craftsman lol.

 

[vgs8606]

And when the Craftsman breaks, you will be the first one to ***** and extol the virtues of Snap-On

 

[otis66]

And when the Craftsman breaks, you will be the first one to ***** and extol the virtues of Snap-On

I have not broken a ratchet yet.

 

[jalfaro]

And when the Craftsman breaks, you will be the first one to ***** and extol the virtues of Snap-On

Well said , I have brand ratchets: Hazet, Wera, Snapon, Armstrong, GearWrench and Craftsman (typical of many followers of GarageJournal ), and just if I need to apply a lot of force on the ratchet then I prefer to use a breaker bar.

But if I use a snapon and I have to apply some pressure just I do it, because of otherwise makes no sense to use another ratchet that in good theory is weaker or cheaper (even with lifetime warranty)

Although the end of the day we have different opinions and tastes.

 

[SMKS]

That's true for a dual80, but not for other manufacturer's fine tooth ratchets, which are indeed not quite as strong as a coarse tooth.

What are some of these "other" fine tooth ratchets that are weaker?

Proto/Mac, Apex/Armstrong/Matco all use fine-tooth designs where multiple teeth contact the pawl to provide greater strength.

 

[shoturtle]

Don't think they really will release torque data on the 36. It is all about the marketing.

There is a thread about the 80 failing at way less then the 280ft lb rating. And another member say he has had issues with the 80 as well. I would still go with corse when using them on big stuff. If a 3/4 with a 4 foot cheater bar on a armstrong or proto work without issue on breaking track work on a m1a2 or a CFV. They are plenty strong. And the industrial grade stuff will not see more then 45t really. And have no issues out of the norm.

But for tight areas 60, 80, 84 and 88 have their advantages with swing arch. Whole different issue.

 

[Skin]

I'm the same way. I was removing a caliper mounting bracket with a 3/8 snap-on dual80 offset flex head with soft grip and needed to use a jack handle as an extension... I just started to put some force and suddenly stopped, called myself a ******* and went to the toolbox to grab a craftsman lol.

so what was the point of paying all that money for a snap-on ratchet if you're going to coddle it? Sounds like a great commercial for HF or Craftsman. I can just see the spokesman now

"I own lots of Snap-On/Matco, but when i demand above and beyond i reach for my HF/Craftsman first to get the job done and at the end of the day, thats all that really matters"

 

[bobcatdan]

Generally speaking, coarse tooth ratchets were stronger then fine tooths. Older fine tooths had small gear teeth and mininal pawl engaugment. They were ment for tight places where a coarse wouldn't swing. Coarse where normal use. There are double pawl designs that will give a fine feel with still a relativly coarse tooth count. Now in the modern age of ratchets, strengh has been add to fine tooth ratchets (dual 80s and 88's) that is simply a way to make ratchets better and to get guys to buy new ratchets. I'm sure a dual 80 is stronger the a 36 tooth, it did replace it after all. That said, I use mostly 36 tooth because I like them better then dual 80's and can not remember the last time I broke a 3/8" I bent the handle on a 3/8 SO roto 72 tooth and it didn't hurt the guts at all.

 

[KinzeMech]

There is a thread about the 80 failing at way less then the 280ft lb rating..

Cheater pipes and exceeding torques are not the only ways to break one. Backup an impact wrench with a ratchet a few times, and you can shell out some gear teeth in no time.

 

[Super Scout]

so what was the point of paying all that money for a snap-on ratchet if you're going to coddle it? Sounds like a great commercial for HF or Craftsman. I can just see the spokesman now

"I own lots of Snap-On/Matco, but when i demand above and beyond i reach for my HF/Craftsman first to get the job done and at the end of the day, thats all that really matters"

I agree with you to an extent but better tools just work better. If I know I am doing something that will result in broken tools, I usually grab my kobalt simply because its easier to warranty. My SK/ARMSTRONG/Snap on just have a better feel. And work better but they are more of a PITA to warranty.

 

[Hiball]

I have many Matco 88s as well as Snap on dual 80's. While the Matco ratchets are nice, they are NOT as strong as the Snap on dual 80s. The Matcos tend to jam up when you really get on them while the Snap on doesnt. YMMV but ive seen this with multiple ratchets

I owns a slug of 88 tooth ratchets, I noticed earlier this week that one of my 3/8 ratchets was trying to bind up.. I grabbed the 3/8" flex and didnt have any problems with the same fastener. I tore the Ratchet apart and didnt see anything out of the ordinary, Wiped it out and dropped a little bit of lube and havent used it yet.

IMO
These "Which is the stronger ratchet, Fine or Coarse tooth" debates could go on for years.. Heres how i see it. In every Driveline that im familiar with in regards to "Serious" Offroading where Major HP and Big tires comes into play, Fine tooth axle shafts are the Preferred Setup, Obviously the Metal Alloy/Treatment plays a Huge role in this department as it does in Tools i suspect. Ive been around Alot of Mechanics, Spoken with Alot of Tool Truck sellers and in regards to Snapon, Its no comparison... The Dual 80's have out performed the older Coarse tooth ratchets (based off Ratchet Rebuild statistics), I believe the only problem that ive ever read/heard about is with the 1/4" line stuff. Why? I dunno. If you have ever taken a Dual 80 apart, Its very unique on how the Paw engages the Gear. As i stated earlier i own a ton of Matco 88 stuff, IMO only.. I actually think they somewhat weakend the design by making the teeth finer but not increasing the Paw contact area. The Paw is the Same size but instead of having 2 separate paws to allow full engagement regardless of what direction you go, The Matco's Single paw only engages a little over half as the other side is for the Opposite direction and slips by the gear. I think they are both great ratchets, I also think Snap on hit a home run with the Dual paw setup.

On a side note..... Dont believe everything you read on the interwebs, I honestly after 3 years think people sometimes get bored and start threads just to see how much of a **** storm they can create.

 

[Skin]

I agree with you to an extent but better tools just work better. If I know I am doing something that will result in broken tools, I usually grab my kobalt simply because its easier to warranty. My SK/ARMSTRONG/Snap on just have a better feel. And work better but they are more of a PITA to warranty.

he said it was during removal of caliper bolts, thats not what i'd call "abuse". Hell i use my ratcheting wrenches for that.

 

[shampoop]

The dual80 is stronger than the previous generation 36 tooth ratchets. Like somebody else has mentioned, the fine teeth are smaller but there are way more teeth in contact at once so the total contact area at any given time is greater for 80 ratchets.

+1 I've heard that a lot on here

A coworker of mine kept on breaking his locking flex 36 tooth snap on ratchet. I remember seeing him get it back from the truck rebuilt and using it for the first time after the rebuild on the front hub bolts of an old wrangler. 13mm, broke it on the first bolt. Gave him my 3/8" craftsman breaker bar with a 16" cheater bar and broke all 8 bolts loose no problem.

The snapon guy got tired of rebuilding his coarse tooth ratchet and just upgraded him to a dual 80 for free.

 

[jeejay]

Looks like the results from a random sample of 1/2 inch drives (published after this topic) could mean that most would be okay up to at least 500 ft-lbs before getting pushed to their limits, according to the Ratchet-Handles Torture Test: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ratchet-handles-torture-test/

Or a good indication of what the recommended max is for any drive size would be to use ratcheting torque wrenches as a reference (where 1/2 inch is more like 250 ft-lbs for sustained use, then up to 600 for 3/4" drive, etc). Scroll down to the "Primary Scale Range" here for example: https://www.grainger.com/category/m...nd-accessories/wrenches/tools/ecatalog/N-1685

I doubt that coarse vs fine teeth has much to do with the torque rating (like drive size obviously does), as long as they are used within the appropriate torque ranges. How do you know if you're using them within those? Based on having tested some of my ratchets with a torque adapter, I'd have to try very hard to over-torque on them, simply because of their handle lengths (so usually they're designed not to get anywhere close to breaking the ratchet itself). However, I'd imagine there could be differences in wear and tear between the two (simply for being ratcheted, regardless of regular torquing, until they were worn down), and over a longer period of time than a torture test, all else being equal (except that a coarse toothed ratchet could use higher viscosity lubricant).

Well, some ratchets appear to have a higher torque limit than my educated guess there about what would be recommended. Looking at the K-Tool 3/4" ratchet adapter, which is said to be a high torque ratchet (like the kind you'd see on a breaker bar), it lists 1041 lbf-ft there, and that's certainly more than the usual 600 pound_force-feet for a 3/4" torque wrench. It's a hefty thing though (the adapter's twice as heavy as a keyed drill chuck that size).

 

[cherrybomb]

Nobody posts what their ratchets are rated for in lbs.But I think the big name fine tooth are probably going to handle whatever you reasonably use them for.

 

[disston]

Nobody posts what their ratchets are rated for in lbs.But I think the big name fine tooth are probably going to handle whatever you reasonably use them for.

I don't think it is a figure that has ever been commonly published. To be fair each manufacturer's ratchet would have to be tested to failure and several times with several piece's. Each time you broke one you'd have to test another. See if they are breaking at roughly the same point and test a few more to confirm. But nobody has set up a company that the manufacturers send their ratchets to to test (send us 100 to start) and on top of sending the ratchets pay them money to do this. So maybe it's just as good that the manufacturers don't publish figures because they'd have to do this testing then we wouldn't know whose figures were fair.

I have an old Bonney ratchet T 703K (I think) that is a round head with dual pawl's in the central part. I figure it's stronger than a single pawl. Didn't work very well till I took it apart and cleaned it. Works great now.

I'm pretty sure the old adage, "You get what you pay for" fit's in this case.

 

[Skin]

Some actually do publish figures, either directly or by stating % over ANSI spec, and all of them break a bunch of ratchets as part of testing to make sure there are no great variations during production.

Snap-On published numbers
1/4" 90 Foot Pounds
3/8" 250 Foot Pounds
1/2" 700 Foot Pounds

And those are max working torque numbers not breaking limits.

 

[CR888]

I buy Snap On ratchets cause there the toughest ratchets in the world, yes there very expensive but when I have a tough job that needs a tough tool......I grab a cheap craftsman

 

[2oolhound]

Like has been said there are many variables involved but as far as tooth count in a given area fine tooth wins.

Compare to a fine thread bolt vs a coarse thread bolt, fine threads are proven to be aprox. 10% stronger. The only reason or advantage to coarse threads on a bolt is they only require 1/2 the turns of a fine thread and they can take abrasion of dings better. Otherwise all bolts would be fine thread. On strength alone the fine thread wins. Think con rod bolts, mains, etc. etc.