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Code Question on ground

theoldwizard1

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The whole issue about ground has been kicked around here many times, but this time I would like to ask the experts basically the same question, but from a different angle.

When you have 2 building being feed by 1 meter is it ever permitted/required that each building have its own ground.
 
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bjcouche

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Two buildings being fed by 1 meter, I read that as two individual non attached buildings like a detached garage. Both buildings must have their own grounding system, IE ground rods etc. The building that does NOT have the meter in it requires the neutral and ground to be ISOLATED. No matter how many subpanels in the house or in the garage, the only place that the neutral is connected to the garage is the main panel, the one right nearest the meter. Some areas in the country have the meter built into the main breaker panel. In this case that panel would be the only one with the neutral bonded to the ground.

In regard to the ground wire going from one building to the other, Yes you need to run 4 conductors, 3 hots, a neutral and a ground. There are a couple of very specific exceptions that allow you to omit the ground but they are specific exceptions. With every code revision these exceptions seem to slowly go away. I would recommend to just pull the ground wire instead of trying to squeeze by in the loopholes.

Brian

Is this the info you were looking for?
 
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theoldwizard1

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Two buildings being fed by 1 meter, I read that as two individual non attached buildings like a detached garage.
Yes, that is the thought I was trying to convey.
Both buildings must have their own grounding system, IE ground rods etc.
So if each building is feed directly from the meter, each build is REQUIRED to have its own ground.
Some areas in the country have the meter built into the main breaker panel. In this case that panel would be the only one with the neutral bonded to the ground.
I forgot about that and was thinking about meter socket and main panel being separate.
In regard to the ground wire going from one building to the other, Yes you need to run 4 conductors, 3 hots, a neutral and a ground.
Yes, if the second building is run off the main panel in the first build (and not directly off the meter socket).
Is this the info you were looking for?
Mostly.

There have been so many questions about grounding that I was just trying to approach the issue from a different angle so that people could stop beating this dead horse.
 
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Plane Bart

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Sub panels require a 4 wire feed (1) neutral, (2) hots, (1) equipment grounding conductor and if it is a separate building it requires a separate grounding electrode conductor to a driven ground rod.
 

mrobins297aaa

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I don't have a ground rod on my barn.

I have a 100 amp sub panel with the 4 wires (neutral, 2 hots and ground).
it was inspected and approved, the only thing he said that the ground and neutral had to separate in the sub panel and I had to remove the jumper bar between them.
Do i really need it?
 

Speedy Petey

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I don't have a ground rod on my barn.

I have a 100 amp sub panel with the 4 wires (neutral, 2 hots and ground).
it was inspected and approved, the only thing he said that the ground and neutral had to separate in the sub panel and I had to remove the jumper bar between them.
Do i really need it?
Is there any other sort of grounding electrode?
A "ground rod" specifically is not required, but some kind of grounding electrode IS.
If this passed recently without it your local inspectors are clueless.
 

Speedy Petey

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So if each building is feed directly from the meter, each build is REQUIRED to have its own ground.
HOW are you running 2 service entrance cables directly from a 200A residential meter socket??? Is this a special meter pan that will accept two loads?
 

wyliesdiesels

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When you have 2 buildings being feed by 1 meter is it ever permitted/required that each building have its own ground.

The short answer is yes.

The long answer is a little more complicated than that, though. Requiring a ground rod depends on several things which u didn't mention:

1)Are the 2 buildings detached? If not, separate GES not required.
2) If they are detached, is there a sub panel or just one circuit such as a light, outlet or a multi-wire ckt? If sub-panel, then yes, GES is required. If single circuit, then no, GES not required!

The building that does NOT have the meter in it requires the neutral and ground to be ISOLATED.
ALL subpanels are REQUIRED to have the neutrals isolated no matter where the meter is located!

No matter how many subpanels in the house or in the garage, the only place that the neutral is connected to the garage is the main panel, the one right nearest the meter.
Huh? That doesn't make sense! Did u mean ground?

In regard to the ground wire going from one building to the other, yes you need to run 4 conductors,3 hots, a neutral and a ground. There are a couple of very specific exceptions that allow you to omit the ground but they are specific exceptions....

3 hots in a residence? Very rare a house would have 3 phase service!

The exception for not needing an EGC in a feeder going to a detached building is as follows:
A 3 wire feed is allowed between buildings if no other metal/grounding path exists between buildings!
 
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theoldwizard1

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Sub panels require a 4 wire feed (1) neutral, (2) hots, (1) equipment grounding conductor and if it is a separate building it requires a separate grounding electrode conductor to a driven ground rod.

Okay, this is EXACTLY the confusion I am referring to !


What I interpret your words to mean is that a detached garage sub-panel, wired off the main panel in the house, needs a 4 wire deed AND a its own ground rod ?

This does not make and sense and I can not believe the NEC requires it.


My interpretation of the NEC is that if you are connecting any sub-panel off of the main panel it MUST be a 4 wire feed and NO additional grounding rod (beyond what is provided by the main panel) is ALLOWED.
 
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theoldwizard1

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The short answer is yes.

The long answer is a little more complicated than that, though. Requiring a ground rod depends on several things which u didn't mention:

1)Are the 2 buildings detached?
Yes, I did not state that clearly in the original post.

2) If they are detached, is there a sub panel or just one circuit such as a light, outlet or a multi-wire ckt? If sub-panel, then yes, GES is required.
Yes, there is multiple circuit panel in the second building.

To me, the term "sub-panel" implies that it always connected to a "main panel" (i.e. not directly connected to a meter socket) that already has a GES, so therefore, 4 wires (2 hot, neutral and ground) are required to feed any sub-panel.
 

sberry

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I always catch hell for saying this but,,, its not really a sub in some sense, it is a service to a detatched structure coming from another service. Is there anywhere in the code that actually uses the word "subpanel"?
 

wyliesdiesels

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Okay, this is EXACTLY the confusion I am referring to !


What I interpret your words to mean is that a detached garage sub-panel, wired off the main panel in the house, needs a 4 wire deed AND a its own ground rod ?

This does not make and sense and I can not believe the NEC requires it.


My interpretation of the NEC is that if you are connecting any sub-panel off of the main panel it MUST be a 4 wire feed and NO additional grounding rod (beyond what is provided by the main panel) is ALLOWED.

You can't believe the NEC requires a ground rod on a separate bldg? Do u have an NEC code book? Check NEC 250.32A!
 

sberry

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The panels in separate buildings are not really subpanels as far as code is concerned. They are the service equipment for the structure. You can have a subpanel from the service equipment in each building if you want. Between buildings, section 250.32 applies and if there are metal interconnections between buildings such as water piping, or air lines, or any metal interconnection at all, then you must install an equipment ground wire so if you have a 120/240 system, you would have four wires. The neutral would be separated in each building and a grounding bar would be installed, just like a subpanel. Then the code requires a grounding electrode conductor (GEC) to a grounding electrode (usually a ground rod). The GEC will be connected to the equipment ground bar at each building. This is not to clear overcurrent devices, this is for two reasons. One is lightning, the more important one is to put the equipment ground at the same relative potential as the earth. This is for step potential or touch potential voltages so that what you touch in the building is at the same potential as what you are standing on. Now the tricky part. If you do not have any interconnecting metal between buildings, the code allows you to install three conductors between buildings. When you do this you bond the neutral and ground the neutral just like a new service. Some inspectors think that every panel in a separate building must be treated as a subpanel, but this is not true. In past codes (1996 and older) these rule were in section 250-24 and Exception 2 addressed the grounding bus.
This is from one of the top code instructors in the country.
 

sberry

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Here is another fine reference for this site, its a bit wordy but is worth the read top to bottom, great for design requirements. http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/home...o-dwellings/wiring-a-detached-garage-2002.php

I don't know squat about electricity, more than 3 or 4 wires and I am lost, would have to look at a drawing and follow the pictures to wire a 3 way. My legitimate expertise is in general welding. This is for the equipment I need to use. I had been wiring since I was a sprout, heard all kinds of code stuff here and there, had even made an effort to read the book at one point but found Warren, even Keis was helpful and tolerated me when I ask what the f a gec stood for, ha but before I migrated to welding forums I spend an hour a night on electric, John Nelson on DIY, bought a code book eventually and follow along with a few things but it boiled down to what Warren did on Self Help.

All I know about it can generally summed up with that read from the start. Read completely thru it, then go back and start to work on applicable particular areas of interest. As I said, I don't know much but this one page I know and understand like the back of my hand, the general theory till its a reflex. I blend it from past expedience, the wrong as well as the right. I even had friends that never impress on me the fact I didn't understand, one at engineering level although to their defense I yak about what I knew vs what I didn't at the time, etc.

This is why all the fuss about the grounding bonding 4 wire stuff and the wire types etc. Warrens page is just about like the bible, I kind of even remember when it all clicked one day when I ask another dumb question and this grouch hit it on the head, the whole thing dawn on me like a spider web. I don't use all the other stuff a guy like Norcal, Ace and others need to know, I spent all the effort in more or less a particular area,,,,, service entrance, panel feeds, grounding, simple circuit design, a pinch about motor circuits and in particular serving demands for welding machines and air compressors, saws, etc.
The rest of it I know nothing about, 3 ph, how one electron bumps another, I do know the right names for the parts when I sit at the counter, I know the difference between the green and white wire ( hence grounded conductor) hahaha Again don't wimp out and read Warrens page top to bottom, it would even be good for a pro ESPECIALLY for those working on forums. The trick is to figure out just whats missing and splain it till it makes sense and you are sure the guy asking understands.

Back to programing... quoted from that document,,
Designing a Service to the Detached Garage Using a Common Service from the Main Dwelling's Service
The name of it isn't how to feed a sub panel is it? Or subpanel?
 

sberry

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The section on pools and hot tubs etc is an interesting one to read, leads to some comprehension of what grounding systems are and what the do.
 

BFBOB

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many of these answers do not address the exact situation of the OP. Let me ask the same question, tailored to my situation. Single phase. One meter on a pole between the garage and house. House and garage detached, each about 50' from the meter. THREE sets of lugs on the meter. One set runs to the house, one set runs to the garage, and one set is for possible future use. Multi-circuit breaker box with main breaker in both house and garage. Am I correct that both breaker boxes require their own GEC's, BONDED to the neutral?
 
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pattenp

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many of these answers do not address the exact situation of the OP. Let me ask the same question, tailored to my situation. Single phase. One meter on a pole between the garage and house. House and garage detached, each about 50' from the meter. THREE sets of lugs on the meter. One set runs to the house, one set runs to the garage, and one set is for possible future use. Multi-circuit breaker box with main breaker in both house and garage. Am I correct that both breaker boxes require their own GEC's, BONDED to the neutral?

You are correct. Both buildings will need a grounding electrode system and the ground and neutral are bonded in both panels in this case. Each building should be fed with a 3 conductor service cable in your example.
 
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sberry

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I was wondering how they treated that also. In my case have 2 200's in the same building, steel, next to each other with bonded neutral parrallel from a 400 with 2 sets of lugs. Bonded further (not only the screw) but by a chunk of number 2 wire to frame of building from N bar. All I know is that I wasnt here, my helper was, he asked the helper who did the work, fussed over it for a minute, helper said, guy that owns it wired it, I don't know anything about it and the guy stuck a green sticker on, was there about a minute and shoved off. I had a written agreement, drawing for the crew before I even start, what size wire I was going to get, moved the pole in the same scheme. Now days almost all installs done by a contractor, you get what you get for service entrance wire.
 

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Thruxton

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As an amateur, I try to keep this in mind when reading the NEC:

It doesn’t say what you think it says, nor what you remember it to have said, nor what you were told that it says, and certainly not what you want it to say, and if by chance you are its author, it doesn’t say what you intended it to say. Then what does it say? It says what it says. So if you want to know what it says, stop trying to remember what it says, and don’t ask anyone else. Go back and read it, and pay attention as though you were reading it for the first time.

- Charlie Beck's Rule of Technical Reading
 

bjcouche

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wyliesdiesels has corrected my grammatical issues correctly. I didn't realize that i messed it up so bad until he pointed it out.

theoldwizard1,
To clarify some more, on what I believe is causing most of your confusion: If you install a subpanel inside the same structure (lets call this your house) as the main panel then you do NOT have to install an GEC (ground rod) at the subpanel. If you install a subpanel in your garage fed from the first structure (your house) then you DO have to install a GEC at the subpanel in your garage.

Now let's say later on you want to install a second subpanel in your garage fed from the original subpanel in your garage. The original subpanel already has a GEC. The second garage subpanel does NOT need a GEC.

Look at it this way, the first panel in any structure requires a GEC and subsequent panels within that structure do not.

Brian
 

Speedy Petey

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allright I want to ask a real stupid, stupid question, what is the purpose of this ground rod? and what are the consequences if you don't have one?
Without typing a ton the short answers are lightning protection, and not much.

Here is a great quote I found on this page: http://www.spgs-ground.com/information/purpose-of-ground-rod
What is the Purpose of a Ground Rod?

A ground rod or a ground field’s only purpose in life is to have a designed electrical path to dissipate a static discharge voltage (such as Lightning) to earth.

If you place a current probe around the conductor going to earth or the ground rod itself you should never see any current flowing on the conductor. If current is seen flowing on the conductor going to earth a ground fault exists. Another term that could be used is leakage current. In either case there is a parallel path back to the voltage source through the earth that crates the loop for current to flow on the earth ground conductor.

Always remember current will always return to its voltage source.

AC will seek a path to the AC source, DC will seek a path to the DC source and a Static Discharge (Lightning) will seek a path back to its source usually earth. If a return path is not designed for that return path or multiple return paths exist current will seek its own paths back to its voltage source.

When current seeks and find its own paths back to its voltage source usually it will pass through equipment. It the voltage passing through that equipment is higher then its operating threshold that equipment will fail and an outage of some type will take place.
 

sberry

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Somewhere I read about earth grounding reducing step potentials, something about keeping the ground you are standing on the same as everything else in the structure, I don't remember exact wording and couldn't find it right off.
 

mrobins297aaa

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Lightning?.....really
I just looked at my bare ground coming out of my house at the main panel to the stake.

looks to be maybe #2al or 4al.........hahahahaha, thats going to take a lightning strike? **** that would be fried in a nanosecond.

there's got to be a better reason
 

Ironhorse

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Your inspector is correct you have to float your sub panel. It will use the ground from your main panel. You can drive a ground rod at that building and attach it to the building steel if your running emt for all the work...but yes float the sub. Next time you at a hospital look a the plugs..orange ( two grounds) red (gen yet another ground) and the gray or ivory plug ( dirty power and still another ground) the stupid thing is that even when it is code..it all still runs via building steel thru the same ground grid. I have yet to figure that out. Check out a cadwelder and just bond your building...hope that helps somewhat.
 

Speedy Petey

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Your inspector is correct you have to float your sub panel. It will use the ground from your main panel. You can drive a ground rod at that building and attach it to the building steel if your running emt for all the work...but yes float the sub. Next time you at a hospital look a the plugs..orange ( two grounds) red (gen yet another ground) and the gray or ivory plug ( dirty power and still another ground) the stupid thing is that even when it is code..it all still runs via building steel thru the same ground grid. I have yet to figure that out. Check out a cadwelder and just bond your building...hope that helps somewhat.
You mention checking out receptacles in a hospital. Thing is, the equipment grounding of receptacles, equipment and anything else has NOTHING to do with ground rods or grounding electrodes. They are two different systems with two distinctly separate purposes.
 

Speedy Petey

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Lightning?.....really
I just looked at my bare ground coming out of my house at the main panel to the stake.

looks to be maybe #2al or 4al.........hahahahaha, thats going to take a lightning strike? **** that would be fried in a nanosecond.

there's got to be a better reason
YES, lightning and other high voltage surges. And you are right, if a wire is run to JUST a ground rod is only needs to be #6cu maximum. This is because a ground rod can only dissipate so much or handle so much surge current.
And NO, there is no better reason. This is why I always say ground rod have very little purpose and re hugely overrated.
 

Speedy Petey

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Here is the exact wording from the NEC:
(1) Electrical System Grounding. Electrical systems that are grounded shall be connected to earth in a manner that will limit the voltage imposed by lightning, line surges, or unintentional contact with higher-voltage lines and that will stabilize the voltage to earth during normal operation.
 

Speedy Petey

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Somewhere I read about earth grounding reducing step potentials, something about keeping the ground you are standing on the same as everything else in the structure, I don't remember exact wording and couldn't find it right off.
I highly doubt this is a reason. The earth is as very poor conductor.

You might be thinking of the new pool perimeter bonding requirements.
 

sberry

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I forget the exact wording but know it contained the phrase step potential, stray currents etc. I am not digging for it though but you are right, there is certainly some debate about the effectiveness.

As for the hospital, its not 2 grounds, its insulated grounding. Its not really dirty of clean power, it comes from the same place.

Pete, the only code updates I get is from here, new pool requirements,,, ha,,, if I install one I will have to read up. Only reason I know number 2 isn't good for 100A is someone here brought it up.

People think code changes are frequent and broad, really not. I would have trouble counting on more than one hand anything really significant for most people here, using rebar as electrodes (resteel should be grounded anyway) the 2 alum feed wire, afci, gfci which is older, maybe a couple particulars as you mention like pools, maybe smokes. . Seems people in stores like to quote things, I remember I was buying something and the guy says, its code, I said, its not and he counters well maybe they change it, no, its never been that way. Some of the places discourage the help from quoting it, with good reason.
 
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sberry

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There should be a cheat sheet,,, which is why I recommend Warren at self help, the things that the electrician knows that the handyman that "does wiring" typically doesn't. The whole neutral/grounding thing, difference between all this, a rod and a fault return, etc, sparkie understands what grounded conductor is.

People think in terms of grounding when the other half of it is wanting to maintain insulated "neutral" or "common" (again really grounded conductor) when these get "connected together anyway" ,,, usually shortly followed by the statement,,, "I just don't understand" or "cant see how" or better yet come up with their own theory,, "double ground" "extra safety wire".

I have a lot of respect for codes. The older I get the higher that respect gets, the biggest kick I get is from real smart people think they can instantly rationalize why "it don't matter" especially when someone is trying to teach them something, an earlier comment about it saying what it says is true and the collective wisdom involved is massive,,, all minds greater than my own and some as smart as the guys that send the guy to the moon or better.

We had a real local deal when I was a sprout, a retired engineer that became small township electrical building inspector. We done lets say more than a handful of local jobs, residential service upgrades, the only thing the old guy was concerned with was the bond at service,,, and this was simple, change out a panel. This eventually ran its course and the small townships finally realize that this whole thing, the administration, the help, etc was futile and this reverted back to the state, licensing enforced, real permits, real inspectors, a system to follow. Ha, rude awakening, first thing even though I didn't understand was what he wanted and how, its 95% mechanical I can do that, my understanding actually came later.

This concept still needs a little forum work. The N wire is a current carrying conductor. Chop this wire in half, put meter in, 120V, hook it back up we got grounded conductor, could touch connection without getting shock, some voltage depending on resistance and load but essentially grounded conductor (need real sparkie to explain this) anyway want all the neutrals to be insulated.

Good example, I moved a mobile home out of a park with a mess of service installs, when I set it I realize they had fed it 3 wire, no bond screw, ran the circuit grounds to a rod. I add a wire, all the grounds were already on their own bar, good, now I look for other problem and low and behold they install an electric dryer, unplug dryer, ah ha. The feed was 4 wire, the cord 4 wire but the leave the bond in and connect the ground to the chassis.

Knowing a bit about codes may aid in trouble shooting, my neighbor calls, has a problem, I ask,, what year was it built? A common question everyone hears about their car but never consider on a modular, in my case same thing with 2 bathroom, figured out that the second unit recept was live after tripping gfci in the first, sure enough they ran the wire to the first but put the feed to the second with the line side of the gfci. Knowing they would use the least circuits to comply with code often one can troubleshoot without tearing the place apart. Room additions, the builder had a good intent to run a new circuit back to the panel but puts the white and the bare under the same screw at the panel. My stuff blinks on and off, when I stick a meter to the ground pin I get 120, I bet I had a dozen friends/service calls over the years for that one. I found a service main (like mine) in a neighbors modular the other day, same deal, installer fed it 3 wire from a meter base, no screw.

I find a fair amount of sloppy stuff from people that should know better, it ain't all homeowner types fuk this up.
 

MrMark

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YES, lightning and other high voltage surges. And you are right, if a wire is run to JUST a ground rod is only needs to be #6cu maximum. This is because a ground rod can only dissipate so much or handle so much surge current.
And NO, there is no better reason. This is why I always say ground rod have very little purpose and re hugely overrated.


I certainly agree. I wonder why you and the other electricians didn't chime in on the other thread where this came up and some first time poster stated some bs about how the ground rods were for equipotential planes. He even got some to agree with him!
 

kossuth

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I highly doubt this is a reason. The earth is as very poor conductor.
Really??? Tell mother nature that when lightning strikes an object like a tree that is planted in the Earth. I used to deal with lightning suppression systems (IE polyphasers and such) all the time when I used to work on public safety radio systems setting up systems in/on radio towers and such. Even though it is much more robust on something such as a radio tower, trust me grounding is very real and serves a very real purpose. I've seen alot of equipment radically damaged by inadequate grounding systems to not ever have a problem after the issues were repaired afterward.
 

MrMark

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Really??? Tell mother nature that when lightning strikes an object like a tree that is planted in the Earth. I used to deal with lightning suppression systems (IE polyphasers and such) all the time when I used to work on public safety radio systems setting up systems in/on radio towers and such. Even though it is much more robust on something such as a radio tower, trust me grounding is very real and serves a very real purpose. I've seen alot of equipment radically damaged by inadequate grounding systems to not ever have a problem after the issues were repaired afterward.


That post you quoted of Peety was referencing another post discussing this "step potential" that would involve 120V AC. At 120V AC the resistance of the earth doesn't allow much current to flow. Same deal as why a 12V car battery won't kill you. Not much current will flow through your body given your body's resistance. Lightning is 1000's of volts and obviously capable of causing major current flow through the earth.
 
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wyliesdiesels

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I forget the exact wording but know it contained the phrase "step potential", stray currents, etc. I am not digging for it though but you are right, there is certainly some debate about the effectiveness.
Just checked my "code check electrical" and the step potential u talk of is in there, so u are right. I quote: "The primary function of the GES is to discharge the enormous voltages of a lightning strike away from the property and its inhabitants. Once the high-voltage electrical energy propagates through the soil, it is converted into heat and magnetic energy. The voltage drop is dramatic. During the microseconds of an electrical strike, voltage steps in the ground as short as 3ft. can produce as much as 100,000v of potential."

As for the hospital, its not 2 grounds, its insulated grounding. Its not really dirty or clean power, it comes from the same place.

Actually, yes, it IS 2 grounds and its NOT called "insulated grounding," its called isolated grounding or ISOG for short. The ground prong on the outlet/equipment ground is isolated from the yoke/junction box. The second ground is for grounding the junction box/conduit! I'm very familiar with this wiring scheme as I use to do electrical in Mcdonalds, panda express and starbucks restaurants for NCR! NCR requires ISOG wiring with twistlock outlets for all of their equipment and servers in every store and restaurant that uses their equipment. I had to run 2 grounds on some runs since FMC is no longer allowed to be used as a grounding conductor! In the panel, there is 2 ground bars- one is insulated like a neutral bar and the other is bonded to the panel. The color scheme is green/yellow stripe!

And yes, the correct term IS dirty power even though "it all comes from the same source." This is a term used mostly in the computer world! Dirty power refers to electrical transients that circulate in grounding which effects computer equipment and especially sound equipment(ever heard a buzz in the speakers @ a concert , that's called a ground loop- I've done audio engineering!) Hence, the reason and need for ISOLATED grounding!


Pete, the only code updates I get is from here, new pool requirements,,, ha,,, if I install one I will have to read up. Only reason I know number 2 isn't good for 100A is someone here brought it up.

#2 AL xHHw is rated for 100amps when it supplies the whole load of a dwelling. Otherwise, yes, it must be rated @ 90amps. In the NEC, there is a separate table for service conductors which are actually the same material and insulation grade as wire that would be used on a branch circuit!

People think code changes are frequent and broad, really not. I would have trouble counting on more than one hand anything really significant for most people here, using rebar as electrodes (resteel should be grounded anyway) the 2 alum feed wire, afci, gfci which is older, maybe a couple particulars as you mention like pools, maybe smokes. . Seems people in stores like to quote things, I remember I was buying something and the guy says, its code, I said, its not and he counters well maybe they change it, no, its never been that way. Some of the places discourage the help from quoting it, with good reason.

Not sure what ur saying about grounding with a UFER electrode but its in the NEC and IS allowed! Also not sure what ur saying about AFCIs and GFCIs but they perform 2 different functions, both to protect life and one to protect property!
 

sberry

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I was generalizing a bit in this ramble, I am not writing a tech document. , I realize it is called isolated but often that leaves the impression it is going to another ground bar, hence the tern insulated.

About "isolated grounds". There are no such things and there cannot be such things. I know they are out there, and I know some of you make the installation under the guidance of the design engineer, or because the electronic guy said it had to be this way or else. I will repeat, THERE ARE NO SUCH THINGS AS ISOLATED GROUNDS.
You will probably find that there is no particular continuity to what I am about to start on. There is no easy way in 20 words or less to do this. So, lets just start. Section 250.146(D) covers "Isolated Receptacles". This section address the IG grounds and states in part; "The receptacle grounding terminal shall be grounded by an insulated equipment grounding conductor run with the circuit conductors." Let's look at this sentence first. The insulated grounding conductor is to run with the circuit conductors --- How can it do this if it goes to a water pipe, or a separate ground rod someplace?
Next sentence "This grounding conductor shall be permitted to pass through one or more panelboards without connection to the panelboard grounding terminal as permitted in 408.20, Exception, so as to terminate within the same building or structure directly at an equipment grounding conductor terminal of the applicable derived system or service." This sentence tells you where the insulated ground is to terminate. How can it terminate within the same building, on the grounding terminal of the service, or the separately derived system (transformer), if it goes somewhere else?
"Section 250.4(D) (5) Effective Ground-Fault Current Path. Electrical equipment and wiring and other electrically conductive material likely to become energized shall be installed in a manner that creates a permanent, low-impedance circuit capable of safely carrying the maximum ground-fault current likely to be imposed on it from any point on the wiring system where a ground fault may occur to the electrical supply source. The earth shall not be used as the sole equipment grounding conductor or effective ground-fault current path." This section requires a low impedance fault return path. The only way to achieve this is to have the equipment ground wire in the same cable, or raceway with the circuit conductors. You cannot separate current flow and maintain a low impedance, it is impossible. Notice one more thing in the above statement. The fault return is go back to the electrical supply source, not where else.
Where do we ground equipment? And yes, electronic equipment is equipment under the code and must comply with all the rules. I know some electronic people think they are special, and are exempt from certain aspects of the code, but believe me they are not. They must follow the same rules as the rest of us. Section 250.6(D) contains the following statement: "(D) Limitations to Permissible Alterations. The provisions of this section shall not be considered as permitting electronic equipment from being operated on ac systems or branch circuits that are not grounded as required by this article. Currents that introduce noise or data errors in electronic equipment shall not be considered the objectionable currents addressed in this section."
This next section tells us what we are to ground equipment to. Believe it or not, no equipment goes to a ground rod, and no equipment whatever is ever connected to a ground rod to ground it. (Yes, there is an exception for 'supplemental grounds') Section "250.4(A)( (3) Bonding of Electrical Equipment. Non-current-carrying conductive materials enclosing electrical conductors or equipment, or forming part of such equipment, shall be connected together and to the electrical supply source in a manner that establishes an effective ground-fault current path." The electrical supply source is the system from which the circuit originated, actually the supply neutral.
Remember this statement: When the code requires a piece of equipment to be grounded, it is grounded (bonded really) to the system grounded circuit conductor, the neutral. It is never connected to a ground rod, a water pipe, building steel or anything else. It goes directly to the system grounded circuit conductor. (in the case of delta systems it goes to the grounded service equipment).
Then, we ground the system grounded conductor, the neutral, to earth, no equipment to earth, the system neutral to earth. Stop for a minute and consider where you put all the equipment grounding conductors at home. Most of you wired with Romex and the bare ground is landed directly on the neutral bar in the main service disconnect. Not in a subpanel, but at the main itself. Then you grounded the neutral. Thus all the equipment in you house is grounded to the neutral, just like is supposed to be.
Remember this also, the code requires a low impedance ground-fault return path for fault current. In order to obtain this, we must keep all the circuit conductors and the equipment grounding conductors in close proximity in the same raceway or cable. The is also required in "300.3 (B) Conductors of the Same Circuit. All conductors of the same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor and all equipment grounding conductors and bonding conductors shall be contained within the same raceway, auxiliary gutter, cable tray, cablebus assembly, trench, cable, or cord, unless otherwise permitted in accordance with 300.3(B)(1) through (4)."
 
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