Harbor Freight Compressors

[Hiball]

This ^ is exactly the problem.

The problem is not with the HF's or HD's or Sears' or their products. The problem is with PEOPLE. They want the instant gratification of buying something new in a box RIGHT NOW. If they can't find something on Craigslist with a single search on a single day then it's NOT THERE to them. In fact most people just assume it's not and don't even look.

I have used plenty of HF tools and I own plenty of them right now that get used DAILY in my professional auto repair shop. Some are fine. Others won't take the abuse, and still others are ok with some modifications.

There are items I have bought that I wished I had time to find quality versions of on Craigslist, eBay, etc but due to the demands of a business I was unable to source them quickly enough for my needs. Though major purchases like compressors I never pickup "lightly".

Frankly the problem is that people just don't want to be bothered to slow down and think things through, to wait for the right deal, or to learn something about how to repair someone's cast off. People often ask me how it is that I know so much about so many broad subjects at what they consider to be a relatively young age - my answer is simple - "I desire to know". I would rather something take me a little longer so that I may learn from it than have it done for me. I would rather have the satisfaction of have people ask where I got this or that item in my shop and my reply be "I built that, you can't buy them, and you can't afford to have me build one for you".

I am the anti-consumer. Not because consumption is bad - but because consumers are over-represented in our society and there needs to be people like myself and many members of forums such as this that keep alive the knowledge of the past and share it for the enrichment of us all.

A compressor is a simple thing. Go get some bits and pieces off craigslist and from your local hardware store and ask some questions of myself or the rest of this board. You'll have your compressed air and it will cost less, be more reliable, and you'll get a greater sense of accomplishment from the experience..... Or don't. Really doesn't matter to me since I have more air than I can use.

GD

While I agree with your sentiment, unfortunately those days are over for the majority of consumers. I was raised by my grandparents, and they grew up in a era where most of your everyday tools where designed to be repaired versus tossed in the trash. As you already know, today's manufacturers aren't in the business of providing support or making parts readily available for your average consumer. Again While I agree 100% with your mentality... I also find myself agravated sometimes when dealing with members here, I put that "import tutorial" together for the membership so they could spend the pennies on the dollar fixing there problem versus buying New. In the "end" I think the majority of consumers are more fixated on Cost/Warranty versus feeling "accomplished". Based off the OP's description, I suspect buying from a company who will stand behind there product and warranty is his best route. Maybe look into extended warranty?

 

[Basstracker34]

Hmmm, I just checked CL in my area and there aren't cheap used compressors like some people here claim. The only name brand ones I see are Craftsmans and Colemans and the sellers seem to want near retail price.

I'm noticing the exact same thing here in MN. I'll buy a new belt drive vs spending about the same for a used oilless model. I was really shocked. And I've been looking for a few weeks now.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Looking at this one on Craigslist.

That's essentially a 1 HP unit by the amps.... 5 CFM is not enough to run a die grinder for more than a minute or two because the pump won't keep up with consumption at 90 psi.

Looks kinda big for what it puts out. My last "little" compressor was a Coleman 27 gallon that made about double the air that that makes. I sold it for $150 and the owner is still happy with it. Had a Briggs and Straton air-end which I believe is still being made - probably in Taiwan. Worked pretty good but still wouldn't keep up with anything but low consumption tools like impacts and air ratchets.

GD

 

[DanMasshardt]

Not sure about op but I'm limited by not having 220 in the garage. I've never seen a 110 compressor that puts out 10 cfm @90psi. Personally I'm looking for quality construction.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

In the "end" I think the majority of consumers are more fixated on Cost/Warranty versus feeling "accomplished".

I guess my lack of understanding stems from my inability to understand the guy that "needs" a compressor to build his own deck but can't extend the same philosophy and DIY attitude to fixing a compressor. I'm not one to climb around in other folks heads but this seems to be a serious lifestyle conflict to me....

If you can't fix a broken compressor then you might want to rethink operating air tools. The Chinese make fabulous air compressors and your local Hispanic community is well represented at the day-laborer store. Grab a beer and a lawn chair and let them worry about where the compressed air comes from....

GD

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Not sure about op but I'm limited by not having 220 in the garage. I've never seen a 110 compressor that puts out 10 cfm @90psi. Personally I'm looking for quality construction.

Most of the smaller 220v machines have dual-voltage motors and can be wired to 110. You will have to have a 20A circuit to do it though (*edit - I should have said 40 Amp ). That Colman I spoke of was such a machine. It was about a 2 HP (9 or so CFM) and was dual-voltage. Just have to change some jumper wires under the motor wiring cover plate.

GD

 

[lennoxlennox]

As usual, many people responding to a post asking about the merits of an item form HF seem to ignore the actual item in question and just bash HF.

I don't think so, clearly generaldisorder knows what he is talking about

and as for quality

http://www.ebay.com/csc/taddwholesale/m.html?_sacat=0&_armrs=1&_nkw=compressor&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc

this resellers completed items, if you count the "multiples" on his "pallets" work out to approx 400-500 returned and non working HF compressors in 2 weeks, when you do the math that's 10,000-13,000 units per year

That's just one guy in one location in the country TN, how many more resellers are there, i don't know but i'm guessing he's not the only one

That doesn't include the ones that are too damaged to not sell


If at a minimum 10,000 units per year don't have you concerned about the quality

Then have a party, buy up large at HF!




Also there are valid points on weekend hobbyists and if you actually need a compressor.. those need to be underscored

 

[pipsters]

Most of the smaller 220v machines have dual-voltage motors and can be wired to 110. You will have to have a 20A circuit to do it though. That Colman I spoke of was such a machine. It was about a 2 HP (9 or so CFM) and was dual-voltage. Just have to change some jumper wires under the motor wiring cover plate.

GD

A 110v compressor can't put out anywhere near 9 CFM. You're talking ~6 CFM max @ 90 psi for the highest motor rated compressors out there. Just not possible. The spec you are referring to has long since been "rephrased", they used to calculate startup motor HP and used the rating off that to calculate CFM.

 

[pipsters]

Not sure about op but I'm limited by not having 220 in the garage. I've never seen a 110 compressor that puts out 10 cfm @90psi. Personally I'm looking for quality construction.

You won't. Or I should say, if they were actually rated properly, you won't ever see a 110v compressor put out anywhere near that CFM.

Sears takes their 1.9 HP 110v pump and puts a 3 hp motor on it and runs it at more RPM and it pumps 10 CFM out. Same pump but run faster.

If they could run the 1.9hp unit @ 10 CFM they'd do it, doncha think?

 

[SMKS]

and as for quality

http://www.ebay.com/csc/taddwholesale/m.html?_sacat=0&_armrs=1&_nkw=compressor&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc

this resellers completed items, if you count the "multiples" on his "pallets" work out to approx 400-500 returned and non working HF compressors in 2 weeks, when you do the math that's 10,000-13,000 units per year

That's just one guy in one location in the country TN, how many more resellers are there, i don't know but i'm guessing he's not the only one

An ebay seller is not a valid way to ascertain quality or failure rates. Plus, some of those compressors are listed as working.

All I'm saying is there are people in this thread passing judgement on the HF compressor without having owned or used one. Are they the nicest compressors? Probably not. Would they fulfill the OP's needs? Possibly.

 

[StaggeringGoat]

It's funny, I posted a pic taken by a HF employee of what happens to their **** and someone tries justifying the ****... go figure.

You posted a picture of a burnt compressor. That shows absolutely nothing. For all we know that compressor was in a garage when it burned down and had nothing to do with the compressor. Looks more like operator error to me. If it was common for HF compressors to burst into flames, then HF would not be in business due to all the lawsuits.

Here's a link to one of "many" people tasked with reselling HF returns on fleabay.... I wonder why there are so many compressors returned?

LOL! Do you really think Harbor Freight is the only store that gets returns? The difference is more expensive brands usually will refurbish and resell the product themselves, or crush it so that nobody can make any use of it. They can afford to do that since they charge so much!

Hmmm, I just checked CL in my area and there aren't cheap used compressors like some people here claim. The only name brand ones I see are Craftsmans and Colemans and the sellers seem to want near retail price.

Same here. GOOD used compressors are at least $500. Many of them are the chinese type and people want about $10 less than HF. Even the antiques are very spendy. I did almost get a 20 gallon heavy duty Speedaire for $50, but it was gone in a few hours. Haven't seen another in that price range - even the ****** ones. Way too many used up Coleman/Sears oilless compressors for hundreds of dollars.

 

[03protege]

this resellers completed items, if you count the "multiples" on his "pallets" work out to approx 400-500 returned and non working HF compressors in 2 weeks, when you do the math that's 10,000-13,000 units per year

That is Kind of a flawed assumption, This guy could have purchased a whole truck load of compressors and who knows how long HF had been collecting them.

It could be 1 days worth or 3 months worth, either way I HIGHLY doubt the rate at which he lists them is a viable way to measure the failure rate.

 

[pipsters]

People in situations that "need" a compressor once every six months probably don't actually need one at all (not saying that's you - just in general). Often they could simply borrow or rent for their needs.

That's like the guy we all know that owns a truck - probably lifted, probably with mud tires, and probably with a bed cover of some kind - because he thinks he "needs" it to move a couch now and then or buy a new TV. In all probability he actually just "wanted" it and could have borrowed or rented a truck for much, much less than the payments on his toy.

"NEED" is a very strong word. Most people should use it much less.

GD

If you are making or doing something that "NEEDS" compressed air to power a tool you are using, you NEED it now not in 6 months.

Either you need something now, to use it, or you don't, and can wait.

For those that need an item now, they can't take 6 months to look on Craigslist for something. I thought I explained that well enough I guess not .

 

[lennoxlennox]

That is Kind of a flawed assumption, This guy could have purchased a whole truck load of compressors and who knows how long HF had been collecting them.

It could be 1 days worth or 3 months worth, either way I HIGHLY doubt the rate at which he lists them is a viable way to measure the failure rate.

actually it is a bit flawed logic, usually he has more

i've bought several items off of him over time and it's astounding to see how much HF **** especially compressors he has, yes he has a **** load of them all the time


as for measuring failure rates as you and stephen9666 mention, you are right, it's not scientific by any means, but in the absence of any impirical data, it's a pretty good indication that all is not well at home


at least it IS quantitive and sure beats the HF cheerleaders opinions


but if you can't see a correlation, like i said... spend your money!

 

[rusty65]

I don't really see a issue with the hf air compressor its so cheap if it shits out quickly lesson learned but if it lasts even better.

 

[lennoxlennox]

LOL! Do you really think Harbor Freight is the only store that gets returns? The difference is more expensive brands usually will refurbish and resell the product themselves, or crush it so that nobody can make any use of it. They can afford to do that since they charge so much!

of course everyone does

but the sheer volume of one type of product with only one vendor - it's actually staggering the failure rates just on this one line of items

i wouldn't care if it had IR, snapon, chicago pneumatic or quincy on the badge... if i saw that, i guess that's all i would need to draw my own conclusions

 

[SMKS]

actually

as for measuring failure rates as you and stephen9666 mention, you are right, it's not scientific by any means, but in the absence of any impirical data, it's a pretty good indication that all not well at home


at least it IS quantitive and sure beats the HF cheerleaders opinions

I don't think it's quantitative at all. I also don't see too many "cheerleaders" here. It seems there are more people who haven't used them making assumptions than "cheerleaders."

I'm not saying they are or aren't good, just pointing out that some people here claiming they're bad don't seem to have too much evidence either way.

of course everyone does

but the sheer volume of one type of product with only one vendor - it's actually staggering the failure rates just on this one line of items

i wouldn't care if it had IR, snapon, chicago pneumatic or quincy on the badge... if i saw that, i guess that's all i would need to draw my own conclusions

Many companies recondition their returns and sell them at other outlets. I don't think HF does that, as I've never seen them anywhere. Perhaps they do, but I haven't seen them or heard of it.

So, Coleman, CH and others could be reconditioning their returns and not selling them as-is on ebay. Again, that just shows that an ebay seller is not a valid way to determine if one brand has a higher failure rate than another.

 

[StaggeringGoat]

at least it IS quantitive and sure beats the HF cheerleaders opinions

Your logic is ridiculous at best.

 

[lennoxlennox]

could be reconditioning their returns and not selling them as-is on ebay. Again, that just shows that the ebay seller is not a valid way to determine if one brand has a higher failure rate than another.

well we can always deal in "could be's"

i've just posted something that "actually is" happening

you can use the information and draw conclusions or you can ignore it... that's up to you



and.... if that doesn't work for you.... go reread "general disorders" posts... he has given his assessment from working on chinese compressors... again, that's information you can use and do something with or ignore...that too is your choice

 

[lennoxlennox]

Your logic is ridiculous at best.

it's ridiculous because i've linked to an external source (not my opinion) which you can actually count how many units are sold.....OOOOOO K

 

[SMKS]

it's ridiculous because i've linked to an external source (not my opinion) which you can actually count how many units are sold.....OOOOOO K

The problem is there is no count of total HF units sold (to ascertain a return rate) and no count of the units sold/units returned of other brands (to ascertain their return rate).

Using this ebay seller to try to draw any conclusion is about as valid as just stating your opinion.

 

[lennoxlennox]

The problem is there is no count of total HF units sold (to ascertain a return rate) and no count of the units sold/units returned of other brands (to ascertain their return rate).

Using this ebay seller to try to draw any conclusion is about as valid as just stating your opinion.

i can't play this game anymore....

black is white

earth is flat


you win

 

[SMKS]

well we can always deal in "could be's"

i've just posted something that "actually is" happening

you can use the information and draw conclusions or you can ignore it... that's up to you


and.... if that doesn't work for you.... go reread "general disorders" posts... he has given his assessment from working on chinese compressors... again, that's information you can use and do something with or ignore...that too is your choice

Hmmm... when you said this earlier, you sure seemed to be trying to lead people to draw a conclusion.

Here's a link to one of "many" people tasked with reselling HF returns on fleabay.... I wonder why there are so many compressors returned?

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_nkw=compressor&_sacat=0&_odkw=&_osacat=0&_armrs=1&_ssn=taddwholesale


did you notice... NOBODY is bidding at the low prices.... hmmmm what could that be telling me?

(his completed listings only go back to Sep 8 and there are 300 listed - in 2 WEEKS!!! That's 7200 returned units this guy sells in a year!!!! and that's just one reseller.... um yes Houston we have a problem - http://www.ebay.com/csc/taddwholesale/m.html?_sacat=0&_armrs=1&_nkw=compressor&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc)

Do what the "GeneralDisorder" or "wornoutoldman" advise you to do, i.e. spend a few more dollars on quality or you can roll the dice and buy chinese **** - as always, it will cost you more in the long run

and.... if that doesn't work for you.... go reread "general disorders" posts... he has given his assessment from working on chinese compressors... again, that's information you can use and do something with or ignore...that too is your choice

He seemed to claim all the cheaper compressors are garbage. I'm still not convinced everyone needs a pro-level compressor.

In a derogatory way, he even said a Chinese compressor would be ok for someone who doesn't use it all the time.

He said this:

If you want to stay out of the Chinese compressor world you pretty much are screwed unless you will be stepping up to a Quincy, higher-end IR, or something more exotic like a Powerex or a small rotary screw.

and this:

Don't get me wrong - for a lot of people that "play mechanic" or "play contractor" a few weekends a year the HF stuff is probably the ticket. Get the warranty and deal with the hassle of returning it if it breaks. People like that don't even really *need* a compressor they just think they do.

-snip-

Harbor Freight compressors are a joke to me and any real professional that relies on his tools. They are the duplo blocks of the compressor world. Hell even the 5 and 20 hp machines I own are toys by comparison to the vast majority of "real" compressors out there.

 

[SMKS]

i can't play this game anymore....

black is white

earth is flat


you win

The difference with these examples is we have proof the Earth isn't flat and black isn't white.

My only problem with your claim is that it wasn't based on anything. It could be correct, but there's no real evidence either way.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

A 110v compressor can't put out anywhere near 9 CFM. You're talking ~6 CFM max @ 90 psi for the highest motor rated compressors out there. Just not possible. The spec you are referring to has long since been "rephrased", they used to calculate startup motor HP and used the rating off that to calculate CFM.

I am talking about HP, CFM, and amps. It takes about 14 amps to make 1 HP on 110v. You *can* buy ~15 amp 110v 2 HP motors and you *could* build a compressor using one. The rule of thumb for compressors is about 4 to 4.5 CFM per HP in the reciprocating piston compressor world. So yes it is possible - I have built many compressors in sizes ranging from fractional HP to 1000 HP frequency drive turbo-compressors.

As I said I owned a Colman unit that was dual voltage and did make 2 HP worth of air on 110v. I believe the advertising on the side of the unit claimed 6 HP....which is patently false advertising and has now been made illegal.

GD

 

[Southern]

I don't wanna get lumped in with anyone on their compressor high horse. I don't have anything against cheap compressors.

All I was saying, OP, was if you wanted to buy a new compressor but didn't have a huge budget, I happen to think you'll be a little better off spending a touch more and picking up a box brand rather than HF. I haven't used the HF compressor in particular so take my advice with the worlds tiniest grain, I would just never buy one unless I literally didn't care if it broke the next week.

Honestly though, in my opinion, patience+craigslist is where it's at for getting a compressor you can keep for a long time at or near your budget. Some people aren't into old/used stuff or stuff that isn't for sale right this moment.

Deep Homo and Lowes take HF's 20% coupon, and there is one active this month. Are those usable on compressors? I can't remember. If so, 20% off on a husky compressor the same size as the HF one will cost you a bit more but, and not that I know anything, you'd be better off in my opinion.

Or grab the HF one, I won't judge you.

Hell, I'll even lend you my compressor if you need it later. >

 

[pipsters]

I am talking about HP, CFM, and amps. It takes about 14 amps to make 1 HP on 110v. You *can* buy 28 amp 110v 2 HP motors and you *could* build a compressor using one. The rule of thumb for compressors is about 4 to 4.5 CFM per HP in the reciprocating piston compressor world. So yes it is possible - I have built many compressors in sizes ranging from fractional HP to 1000 HP frequency drive turbo-compressors.

As I said I owned a Colman unit that was dual voltage and did make 2 HP worth of air on 110v. I believe the advertising on the side of the unit claimed 6 HP....which is patently false advertising and has now been made illegal.

GD

Give it up man, we know you can buy a huge 110v motor, read the dude's post, he wants a 110v compressor he can run on his home system for things like nail guns. Anyone you know have a 30 amp 110v breaker in their box with associated what, 10 gauge wiring? No I didn't think so. Like I said CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING...

I don't know of ANY 110v air compressor manufactured and readily available that requires a 30 amp breaker, 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of them out there run on a regular 15 or 20 amp home breaker. You might find some oddball at Grainger or something that is special ordered but do you really think that is what this guy is getting at? He wants a ******** $150 compressor that he can plug in and turn on and use a nailer or die grinder for a bit.

If it makes you feel better in this ******* context to talk about how big and old your compressors are go for it...I'm out...

 

[Matt018]

No need for arguing people, Look for home use rarely and light use running nail guns any compressor will do. Running higher cfm mechanics tools you want something midsized, and for blast cabinets and sanders and other high cfm tools you want a larger 60-80 gallon or depending on your application you might need bigger.

Id reccomend you buy a 20-30 gallon compressor, i have a craftsman professional that is oiled and 27 gallons, it works just fine for me.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Give it up man, we know you can buy a huge 110v motor, read the dude's post, he wants a 110v compressor he can run on his home system for things like nail guns. Anyone you know have a 30 amp 110v breaker in their box with associated what, 10 gauge wiring? No I didn't think so. Like I said CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING...

I don't know of ANY 110v air compressor manufactured and readily available that requires a 30 amp breaker..

You aren't getting what I'm saying. Most of the 220v machines are actually running dual voltage motors and can be trivially switched to 110v if you desire to do so. All it takes is a look at the motor nameplate.

GD

 

[pipsters]

You aren't getting what I'm saying. Most of the 220v machines are actually running dual voltage motors and can be trivially switched to 110v if you desire to do so. All it takes is a look at the motor nameplate.

GD

I have a similar machine. If I ran it at 220v or 110v it puts out exactly the same air. Just runs at half the amps on 220. I honestly don't understand what your point is...it doesn't effect the operation of the compressor one iota.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

I have a similar machine. If I ran it at 220v or 110v it puts out exactly the same air. Just runs at half the amps on 220. I honestly don't understand what your point is...it doesn't effect the operation of the compressor one iota.

My point is simply that he should not limit himself to 110v machines. Many 220v machines could be used on 110v with a little bit of effort. True you may need to be creative with breakers but it can be done and even though the motor is rated at 28 amps it doesn't mean you have to run it to it's max capacity. Amps is based on pressure with a compressor motor and it is likely that it would not be at 28 amps till well beyond the 90 psi needs of most air tools. Though it's true you can't break the rule of 4 CFM per HP at 100 psi and you need 28 amps to get there.

You just have to be careful and think things through a bit. Higher RPM means more CFM and less pressure before overamping the motor. Lower RPM will get your pressure up but your CFM goes down. By carefully selecting the motor sheave you can tailor the compressor to your power requirements and make the most from what is available on the used market.

GD

 

[Southern]

By carefully selecting the motor sheave you can tailor the compressor to your power requirements and make the most from what is available on the used market.

GD

Forgive me if this is a stupid question. Does that say you can tune a compressor to give slightly different performance than advertised?

I have a little 30gal 150psi upright, is there something I can do to lower the pressure but increase the CFM if I want to?

I might have totally misunderstood you. I'm not really a compressor genius.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Forgive me if this is a stupid question. Does that say you can tune a compressor to give slightly different performance than advertised?

I have a little 30gal 150psi upright, is there something I can do to lower the pressure but increase the CFM if I want to?

Yes - if you speed up the compressor (larger motor sheave or smaller compressor sheave) then you will increase the CFM and lower the max pressure. You will want to do some calculations on how much faster you want to run it. Shoot for a 110 to 120 psi max target at FLA (full load amps) and you should gain a few CFM. Make sure the air-end can handle the faster speed without killing it.....

GD

 

[StaggeringGoat]

It takes about 14 amps to make 1 HP on 110v.

14 amps x 120 volts = 1680 watts
1 HP = 746 watts

14 amps is a lot more than one HP.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

14 amps x 120 volts = 1680 watts
1 HP = 746 watts

14 amps is a lot more than one HP.

Ok I'm obviously tired. Will revist this later. But yeah it should have been 14 for 2 HP..... which just makes it that much easier to run a 220v machine on 110v since you only need a normal 20A breaker.

GD

 

[Danglerb]

Compressor 101

How much air do you need, not the cfm of your tools, but cfm of the tools times the continuous minutes you need to operate them.

How much space do you have, plenty, get a big horizontal belt drive, not much, get a vert or smaller unit if that suits your air needs.

110 or 220?

How many hours a month will it be running?

How important is reliability, whats the cost if it doesn't run? If you have a shop and employees why would you even consider less than a top rated model operated well below its intended duty cycle?

 

[Motofixxer]

Another option that hasn't been mentioned is purchase a smaller/lower cfm unit and watch for air tanks on CL etc to add capacity for the occasional higher demands. I bought a 25 gal porter cable new looking tank intended for a compressor build. Changed my mind and found a used IR on CL for $700. But I still have a nice portable/ auxilary tank for a whopping $20.

A guy could mount a larger tank up high on a shelf etc and plumbed in the airline with a valve. Need it turn valve on, don't need it leave valve off for quicker compressor cycles etc. Use Milton type V high flow fittings or similar for max capacity.