100/200A Subpanel Breaker Termination

[Wrench507]

Building new detached garage and needed a 100A subpanel. The subpanel is being feed from the house’s 200A service panel with 100A breaker for the subpanel feeder wire.

The electrician was going to install a 100A Square D panel with 20 breakers spaces. I told him I needed more breakers. He said Square D did not make a 100A panel with more breakers. So he installed a 200A Square D panel with space for 40 breakers. Since the 200A breaker has big termination lugs to accommodate a larger conductor, he stuck a another ~2” piece of #2 AL wire in the breaker lug hole with the #2 AL feeder so he was able to tighten the wires in the breaker. This panel and wiring termination does not seem right or to code.

Oh by the way, I found a 100A Square D panel with 30 breaker spaces at HomeDepot this past weekend. This would meet my needs. Thanks.

 

[markf4e]

Do you have pictures of this? From what I am picturing in my head, you have a random piece of live #2 sticking out of the lugs on the 200A breaker?

Get another electrician in there to look at it, since connections are fairly critical with aluminum wire.

 

[pattenp]

Panel lugs are rated for only one wire connection from size X to size X. Putting a wire shim is not specified as allowed.

You can use a 40 circuit main lug panel and back feed a 100A breaker for the disconnect.

You've had three post questioning this install. Sounds like you need an electrician that's more up to date on stuff. Just saying.


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[wyliesdiesels]

Did i read that right- that he's using #2 AL feeder with a 200a breaker? You stated he terminated #2 AL on a 200a breaker and stuck an extra piece of #2 AL in the lug so he could tighten it?

 

[Wrench507]

Yes, the electrician terminated the two #2 AL (URD) feeders in my 200A breaker using extra pieces of #2 AL in the lug so he could tighten it. He did tape the extra piece of #2 AL so bare wire was not exposed above the breaker. I assuming this type of termination is not code. Can someone cite NEC so I have something to show him why this termination is not permitted? Thanks.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

OMG! #2 AL is only good up to 100a IF feeding the whole load of your house and 90a for all other applications! Putting 2 or more conductors under one breaker lug is only allowed if the breaker specifically lists that being allowed. I have rarely seen this. So not only did he violate the ampacity rating of the wire but also screwed up on the termination of the wire. As far as code, check T250.122, which I believe is the ampacity table but I don't have my code book on me so pattenp or another sparky will have to confirm that. Is this guy licensed? I would fire him! No telling what he might do if you ask him to fix his mistakes on his dime! Sounds like a real winner!

EDIT: I just reread your post and I guess I missed the part about a 100a breaker in the service main feeding the #2 AL. That's still incorrect but nowhere near as bad!

 

[mrobins297aaa]

I know its none of my business but why would you need more than 20 breakers for a garage?

 

[Wrench507]

It's actually a woodworking shop in the back and garage in the front. Most of my machines have 3- 7 Hp motors, so I dedicate breaker to them.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

OMG! #2 AL is only good up to 100a IF feeding the whole load of your house and 90a for all other applications! Putting 2 or more conductors under one breaker lug is only allowed if the breaker specifically lists that being allowed. I have rarely seen this. So not only did he violate the ampacity rating of the wire but also screwed up on the termination of the wire. As far as code, check T250.122, which I believe is the ampacity table but I don't have my code book on me so pattenp or another sparky will have to confirm that. Is this guy licensed? I would fire him! No telling what he might do if you ask him to fix his mistakes on his dime! Sounds like a real winner!

EDIT: I just reread your post and I guess I missed the part about a 100a breaker in the service main feeding the #2 AL. That's still incorrect but nowhere near as bad!

The OP did not say he was installing a 200 amp circuit with #2 wire, he said he was using a 200 amp rated/40 space panel as a subpanel, which is supplied by #2 wire, and a 100 amp feeder breaker in his house's main panel. The only mistakes here are that the 100 amp feeder breaker should be a 90 amp with the #2 wire, and the doubling of the wire in the termination at the subpanel.

To the OP, the placard on the inside of the door for the new panel will tell you what size wires are permitted in the main breaker line terminals. It may take a little looking to decipher this, but, if nothing else, post some good pics of the panel placard inside the door and we'll all see. I'll bet the breaker is rated down to #2 anyhow, and doesn't need this bogus "doubling up" of the wire.

From looking in the Square D QO panel catalog

http://static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Electrical Distribution/Load Centers/1100CT0501.pdf

It would appear that 200 amp main breakers used in these panels can accomodate from #6 to 250 kcmil wire, so a single #2 in the lugs of the 200 amp main would be acceptable without the extra piece the hack installed to fill up the lug.

Again, you need to verify this with the placard on the inside of the panel door.

Charles

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The OP did not say he was installing a 200 amp circuit with #2 wire, he said he was using a 200 amp rated/40 space panel as a subpanel, which is supplied by #2 wire, and a 100 amp feeder breaker in his house's main panel. The only mistakes here are that the 100 amp feeder breaker should be a 90 amp with the #2 wire, and the doubling of the wire in the termination at the subpanel......

Yes, i realized this later. Thus the reason i put an edit line in @ the bottom and stated that i realized this!

 

[Wrench507]

Thanks for the responses. I will not be able photo the the panel until this weekend. I will post it for all to see.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Yes, i realized this later. Thus the reason i put an edit line in @ the bottom and stated that i realized this!

I missed your edit until quite some time after I posted.

Charles

 

[BigGMC]

The fact that he thought 100A'rs only come with 20spaces suggests he needs to get out in the field more