What kind of scan tool do we need?

[chris142]

I work at a shop that has absolutly no scan tools. We are so far behind the rest of the world that we still use paper work orders. My boss is still stuck in the 70's I think.

I've got him convinced that we need a scan tool to do some repairs.

Like today. We have a 03 saturn Vue with a busted AC. It has a full charge because I charged it with our charging station but the compressor won't come on. It's not getting 12v to the compressor clutch coil.

Another common one is a car with a cold suction line but heat coming out of the vents.

So I think we need a tool that will show me if the computer thinks that the AC is on or if the blend door is supposed to be on cold etc.

I talked to a few local shops and so far nobody likes the Modis. A few shops said the Genesys was pretty good.

What do ya'll use and how is it?

 

[pipsters]

Do any scan tools show what you are looking for? I didn't know they went that much in depth.

 

[chris142]

Do any scan tools show what you are looking for? I didn't know they went that much in depth.

I have no clue what to look for really. Other shops are fixing these cars so they must have a way to see whats going on?

 

[dwp99]

look into the maxidas by Autel. I first saw one in the Chevy dealer. One of the techs bought one for himself. Our shop ended up buying one.

They will cycle the blend air and mode doors like you want to do.

Customer service was good also. Had a problem and they replaced it with a new one.

It will also diag all brands of autos, antilock brakes, airbags and transmissions

http://auteltech.com/autelcms/Automotive Diagnostic& Analysi/341.jhtml

 

[Fedwrench]

A scan tool would be a step towards being able to work on cars made after 1983 but, what kind of service information do you have access to?
Do you have Alldata or Mitchell on demand? Do you even have a shop computer?
Scan tools are essential but, so is knowlege and access to tsbs, wiring diagrams, procedures, and specifications. How do you stay in business in California, the land of Carb and probably the most unfriendly attitude towards repair shops without a scan tool?

Who do you get your auto parts from? Napa and car quest both usually have deals on the Genisys. The Maxidas is gaining in popularity, is fairly cheap but, it's also new. Let's see how it's supported in a few years. Good luck,

 

[Skin]

can't believe nobody even purchased an older unit, you guys must turn away a lot of work. Snap-on scan tools are the jack of all trades master of none but its very well supported and can be updated regularly. OTC is far cheaper but with them its pretty much what you see is what you get. They practically drop support as soon as they have a new model available. Anything is far far far better than nothing though.

 

[wornoutoldman]

Are you a www.iatn.com member?

 

[bcradio]

I have no clue what to look for really. Other shops are fixing these cars so they must have a way to see whats going on?

Can you do a voltage drop test to see where you lose that 12v?

 

[ptschram]

Modis is an outdated platform that was never intended to do what is now being demanded of it.

The starter Snap-On unit is the Solus Ultra that will allow for reading of codes and a good bit of component testing.

The Verdict is the next step up with a wireless OBD-II module that allows the user to be under the hood and still reading data. The verdict however, does not allow for secondary ignition activities.

The Verus is the top of the line and if it won't do what you need, I don't think you're on the right track.

I suggest contacting your local Snap-On rep and discussing the finer points while handling the units.

 

[chris142]

our main work is swapping locked up ac compressers, dryers,recharging and water pumps.that's all my boss ever wanted to do till I showed up.you Guy'swould be amazed at the amount of 60's and 70's cars that we work on. metric sockets? ya collecting dust in my Box. but the older cars are getting fewer and fewer. if a newer car comes in and needs more than a ac hose made or a simple compresser replaced I have to send it packing. no computer at work as my boss does not understand the need for one and could not turn one on.. he still asks me to turn the idle up on the carburetor that's nonexistant. does not understand computer controlled stuff at all. btw he lives in the sticks completly off the grid at home

 

[Outlawmws]

I keep reading this thread as "What kind of scam tool do we need?"

 

[Skin]

our main work is swapping locked up ac compressers, dryers,recharging and water pumps.that's all my boss ever wanted to do till I showed up.you Guy'swould be amazed at the amount of 60's and 70's cars that we work on. metric sockets? ya collecting dust in my Box. but the older cars are getting fewer and fewer. if a newer car comes in and needs more than a ac hose made or a simple compresser replaced I have to send it packing. no computer at work as my boss does not understand the need for one and could not turn one on.. he still asks me to turn the idle up on the carburetor that's nonexistant. does not understand computer controlled stuff at all. btw he lives in the sticks completly off the grid at home

Im guessing he wont want to drop the coin for a snap-on unit then. Get a couple laptops with licenses of alldata to start, maybe consider autoenginuity too. Grab a gently used genisys setup off ebay (im assuming you have more than a couple guys at this shop). I think that would be a good start to get enough equipment for 2 guys to use at the same time for about 3-4 grand. Obviously you'll need to get the shop online too.

Sorry to say but if this guy wont listen to you and spend the cash i'd be out of there ASAP. Ignoring electronic diagnoses in this day and age is down right stupid to the point where you'll be out of business eventually. Plus the return on investment in this stuff happens instantly. Your diagnoses times drop drastically, your repair times increase and become more reliable etc etc...

 

[chris142]

Im guessing he wont want to drop the coin for a snap-on unit then. Get a couple laptops with licenses of alldata to start, maybe consider autoenginuity too. Grab a gently used genisys setup off ebay (im assuming you have more than a couple guys at this shop). I think that would be a good start to get enough equipment for 2 guys to use at the same time for about 3-4 grand. Obviously you'll need to get the shop online too.

Sorry to say but if this guy wont listen to you and spend the cash i'd be out of there ASAP. Ignoring electronic diagnoses in this day and age is down right stupid to the point where you'll be out of business eventually. Plus the return on investment in this stuff happens instantly. Your diagnoses times drop drastically, your repair times increase and become more reliable etc etc...

the shop has been on business for 30 years and just in the last couple of years have we needed a scan tool. we kinda specialize in old stuff and most customers know this. I have a water pump on a 72 f250 with a 390 waiting for me when I get back.

 

[bcradio]

the shop has been on business for 30 years and just in the last couple of years have we needed a scan tool. we kinda specialize in old stuff and most customers know this. I have a water pump on a 72 f250 with a 390 waiting for me when I get back.

New stuff with electronics will very shortly become old stuff with electronics.

 

[wafrederick]

The factory scan tools are a must also.GMs,need the factory scan tool to unlock 2001 and newer radios.The old way unlocking the 2001 and newer radios does not work.Chrysler key fobs,the DRB III is the only scan tool to program them including their ECMs.

 

[Skin]

the shop has been on business for 30 years and just in the last couple of years have we needed a scan tool. we kinda specialize in old stuff and most customers know this. I have a water pump on a 72 f250 with a 390 waiting for me when I get back.

Its still a huge handicap basically cutting out the last ~25 years of auto manufacturing. Why not be the shop that can do both? Its job security, as stated the new stuff of today will quickly become the old stuff of tomorrow.

 

[bcradio]

The factory scan tools are a must also.

Definitely not a must on this. How many independent shops have factory scan tools for every brand out there? Not many would be my guess. If you work at a dealership then a factory scan tool would be needed.

 

[ptschram]

Im guessing he wont want to drop the coin for a snap-on unit then. Get a couple laptops with licenses of alldata to start, maybe consider autoenginuity too. Grab a gently used genisys setup off ebay (im assuming you have more than a couple guys at this shop). I think that would be a good start to get enough equipment for 2 guys to use at the same time for about 3-4 grand. Obviously you'll need to get the shop online too.

Most Snap-On guys have used older Solus/Solus Pro units that are still functional. I have one that was just rebuilt and has up to date software on the truck for $2000.

I took it in on trade for a new one.

 

[wafrederick]

Try unlocking a 2001 and current GM radio with an aftermarket scan tool,can't.1997 and Down Chrysler ABS systems,the DRB III is the only scan tool to read the codes.Even with Chryslers with the grey keys,programed with the DRB III only toTC is screwed,Bosch owns them now and Bosch bought out SPX this year.There was Vetronix,Bosch bought them out in 2003 and screwed the company up.Bosch diagnostic equipment,it is yours after being purchased.

 

[richfinn]

I,ve used a Bosch KTS to diagnose a few Climate control faults over the years on European vehicles (it also has built in Tech info via ESi tronic).

I would think a Snap-On unit maybe a used MT2500 with USA/Japanese/Euro could be a cheap way in for DTCs/Actuator tests like pulling AC clutches and driving electric fans.

A basic electrical fault finding training course would be my first stop though and maybe a Power Probe 3

 

[cammok5]

i would atleast get an old snap on brick. i think the last update was for 2009.
they can be had for a few hundred on ebay.

 

[RCStocker]

WOW is all I have to say.
I am old but dang......!!!!!
A shop with out a computer and scanner.
Holly Batman, Robin is all I have to say.

They changed the code I think somewhere in 1996. You can get a scanner to work on only the newere ones or older and then you can buy one that does both.
Cheap ones you need to look up the code in the book. I have one of the cheap ones in every car I drive and I also have a full small set of repair tools. I use them once every 5 years if that.

I like the ones that have the information built in. The good ones you can plug into a computer and get the awnsers to just about everthing. For a shop that is the only way to go. If you boss does not have one I would be looking for another job. I lived in the dark ages they were nice then because we did not know at the time they were the dark ages. We sat around the radio for entertainment. I am so old I am someones ancestor.

For a shop I would go with a 3 grand snap-on. They might be more. The time you save messing aroud will give you time to do more jobs and make more money.

You all must be in the sout, back woods or a different world. If a car comes in with codes on you need one to reset the codes to 0. How can you live without one. I can't and I am only an old farmer.

 

[chris142]

WOW is all I have to say.
I am old but dang......!!!!!
A shop with out a computer and scanner.
Holly Batman, Robin is all I have to say.

They changed the code I think somewhere in 1996. You can get a scanner to work on only the newere ones or older and then you can buy one that does both.
Cheap ones you need to look up the code in the book. I have one of the cheap ones in every car I drive and I also have a full small set of repair tools. I use them once every 5 years if that.

I like the ones that have the information built in. The good ones you can plug into a computer and get the awnsers to just about everthing. For a shop that is the only way to go. If you boss does not have one I would be looking for another job. I lived in the dark ages they were nice then because we did not know at the time they were the dark ages. We sat around the radio for entertainment. I am so old I am someones ancestor.

For a shop I would go with a 3 grand snap-on. They might be more. The time you save messing aroud will give you time to do more jobs and make more money.

You all must be in the sout, back woods or a different world. If a car comes in with codes on you need one to reset the codes to 0. How can you live without one. I can't and I am only an old farmer.

We are not a full fledged shop. Our main work is Radiator Repair and sales and most of those walk in our door off the car already. We also specialize in AC.We make hoses here on the spot and we do have 3 AC charging stations. We have not really needed to upgrade to computer stuff until reciently.

 

[jethro29]

i use the solus pro and it shows a/c command.also does bi-directional testing which is what you really need.and they have a great scanner specific training site.

 

[Gmonkee]

If the boss lives is a mobile home deep in Lucerne Valley like you say its going to be an uphill fight to get a top of the line unit.
Check out Actron units as they tend to be more reasonably priced and the older ones I have used were pretty easy to learn to use too. One of the newer models should fit your needs well. Two I used without a manual at all, plug and play easy and I liked that a lot.

Currently I own an Actron code reader with 2008 software and it still holds its own on later model years for the most part. Software updates are USB downloaded for it and I really should look into that one day.


Is there a trailer park on one side of the shop with an older double wide in the corner?

 

[chris142]

If the boss lives is a mobile home deep in Lucerne Valley like you say its going to be an uphill fight to get a top of the line unit.
Check out Actron units as they tend to be more reasonably priced and the older ones I have used were pretty easy to learn to use too. One of the newer models should fit your needs well. Two I used without a manual at all, plug and play easy and I liked that a lot.

Currently I own an Actron code reader with 2008 software and it still holds its own on later model years for the most part. Software updates are USB downloaded for it and I really should look into that one day.


Is there a trailer park on one side of the shop with an older double wide in the corner?

no your thinkin of trader rudys on palmdale rd lol

 

[Gmonkee]

I used to live in that trailer in the early 90's. Its been a long time now.


Good that his radiator shop has survived so long in a town hurting like that. Hella nice guy too, I used to stop and talk when I passed on the way home.

 

[chris142]

Update: My boss and I have been comparing the different scan tools. The expensive ones are out. Not gonna happen as he thinks they are too expensive.

So I had him checking out the Genesys. We can get one for $2000 +-.

He does not see the point of having one. He can't see the available profit from this tool and he's not interested in that side of auto repair. So we are just going to keep sending customers to other shops like we have been.

Thanks for everybody's input though.

 

[Thegratenate]

It looks like the autel Maxi diag elite might be low cost enough for you to buy on your own and then sell to your boss when he sees it turn into more business. It would be prudent to check for the ability to do the specific tasks that you require before shelling out the cash for it, but it would pay for itself quickly if it has that ability.

 

[lortech]

Yea, thats what i need for finding corroded connections is power probe. Also, just because a scanner says a sensor is bad dont believe it. The scanner only test the entire circuit, not just the sensor. It also could be mechanical. ABS light comes on and abs kicks in at 7 mph. What are you going to do? in my case, the wheel bearing was failing. ABS was inside hub so that affected it.

 

[Nosferatu]

Update: My boss and I have been comparing the different scan tools. The expensive ones are out. Not gonna happen as he thinks they are too expensive.

So I had him checking out the Genesys. We can get one for $2000 +-.

He does not see the point of having one. He can't see the available profit from this tool and he's not interested in that side of auto repair. So we are just going to keep sending customers to other shops like we have been.

Thanks for everybody's input though.

Just out of curiosity, do those shops send work to you guys for A/C, etc. that you specialize in or do they handle those jobs in house?

If not, you should start sending applications to those shops and get out before you NEED to start applying to those shops!

 

[Seanbev24]

The only 2 options I see are:

1. Buy your own scan tool.
2. Find a new job.

Option 3 would be stay there and deal with it, but we wouldn't be having this discussion if the OP were satisfied with the current situation.