attn. dewalt: how to keep and make your cordless users happy

[sk farmer]

simple. build an adapter that accepts the new slide on 20 volt max batteries and will snap into the old standby 18 volt tools. offer it up at a reasonable price and old users with a drawer of misc. tools will jump right on the bandwagon and encourage the sales of new 20 volt max tools.

dewalt has always said they won't abandon the old 18 volt line and i doubt that the slight increase of a couple volts will destroy the old workhorses. something could also be built in to limit the voltage to 18 if needed but i doubt it would.

if this is a stupid idea i am sure someone will tell me but i think many will agree with me.

 

[Conductor562]

They have the Nano base batteries but I get what your saying. The whole point of switching to the 20V was to eliminate the stem to create room for the electronics like overload protection, etc.

 

[Displaced Hokie]

Funny you posted this, as I was just thinking of posting my love of these 18v tools and my disgust at Dewalt at not showing them some love lately. I'll admit I'm late to the game, getting my first 18v set back in 2007, and adding a couple more to it last year. Right now I've got the major 18v tools, and I could ask for nothing more. Tough, powerful, and a great line up that I'd like to add to.

The new stuff just seem gimmicky. And you know there is no way Dewalt is going to keep both lines going. But they better or folks are going to seriously revolt.

Your idea of the battery adapter is a good one. You know the new "20v" batteries are actually 18v don't you? No stepdown needed. In Europe they label them 18v, but over here they call them 20v which is the voltage they have fresh off the charger - but is not the nominal voltage they hold usually.

 

[bimmerZ5]

Your idea of the battery adapter is a good one. You know the new "20v" batteries are actually 18v don't you? No stepdown needed. In Europe they label them 18v, but over here they call them 20v which is the voltage they have fresh off the charger - but is not the nominal voltage they hold usually.

I was about to mention this, but you already did. I wish the US had regulations against stupid marketing folks from doing this type of creative.. eh, ****. I'm sure that's why they don't market it as 20V in Europe.

 

[firebox40dash5]

I was about to mention this, but you already did. I wish the US had regulations against stupid marketing folks from doing this type of creative.. eh, ****. I'm sure that's why they don't market it as 20V in Europe.

Hey, they're pretty honest... just most people don't take "12V/20V MAX" quite as literally as they should!

 

[Conductor562]

No worries, you'll be able to buy the Nano base batteries for years to come.

 

[jake00]

With their name on all sorts of tool boxes, hand tools and other accessories, I doubt they care

 

[Stuey]

Not going to happen.

Different electronics would mean sophisticated adapters that few users will buy. It's not as simple as creating a physical 18V stem-pack adapter that 20V Max battery packs slide onto.

Plus, regardless of how Dewalt says they want to support the 18V platform. distributors won't want to carry two sets of SKUs. That's why Lowes is severely discounting their 18V combo sets and many retails are discounting all 18V tools.

Dewalt will continue making 18V batteries for years, but bare-tool selection will probably become harder to find as distributors stop carrying them.

 

[Conductor562]

Not going to happen.

Different electronics would mean sophisticated adapters that few users will buy. It's not as simple as creating a physical 18V stem-pack adapter that 20V Max battery packs slide onto.

Plus, regardless of how Dewalt says they want to support the 18V platform. distributors won't want to carry two sets of SKUs. That's why Lowes is severely discounting their 18V combo sets and many retails are discounting all 18V tools.

Dewalt will continue making 18V batteries for years, but bare-tool selection will probably become harder to find as distributors stop carrying them.

I'm surprised they're still making the tools now…..or are they? I've been saying all along that Dewalt got themselves into a somewhat awkward situation with the whole 20V Max/Nano base thing. For awhile they were still selling the XRP stuff for as much (or more) as the 20V stuff. Let most consumers a little confused though there was never any doubt 20V Max was the future.

 

[lotsoftools]

They do make a charger that does both batteries now. You'll still have both batteries, but at least you would only need one charger.

 

[sk farmer]

Not going to happen.

Different electronics would mean sophisticated adapters that few users will buy. It's not as simple as creating a physical 18V stem-pack adapter that 20V Max battery packs slide onto.

Plus, regardless of how Dewalt says they want to support the 18V platform. distributors won't want to carry two sets of SKUs. That's why Lowes is severely discounting their 18V combo sets and many retails are discounting all 18V tools.

Dewalt will continue making 18V batteries for years, but bare-tool selection will probably become harder to find as distributors stop carrying them.

i respect your opinion but that is mumbo jumbo from the mfg. the tools run on dc voltage. when you charge that battery it may take some differant circitry but when that tool is running it does not care if you use an 18 volt battery from dewalt, a 12 volt and 6 volt car battery hooked together or a slug of dc batteries zip tied together as long as you feed it power in the right voltage.

i dare anyone to prove to me how 18 volts of dc is differant coming from any battery to the next. i will stand corrected if they do.

stuey, on your sight, you just promoted how makita is making an adapter to use two 18 volts to power a 36 volt tool. i have also seen a setup that uses an adapter with a short cord hooked to a large battery pack used to power cordless tools. it was marketed to fire and rescue for longer run times in emergency situations.the battery was designed to be carried in a bag or backpack.

i also don't get why noone would buy them. why would they have to be expensive? it is hands down proven that the most expensive part of any system is the battery and charger. i think you are wrong if noone would invest 30, 40 or 50 dollars to make hundred if not thousands of dollars of tools compatable with newer technology.

if someone is in the market to change platforms this adapter would make them "more" likely to stay with dewalt. how do you put a price on that? i doubt dewalt would "lose" money on an accessory that make their tools more compatable than less compatable.

 

[Stuey]

The battery packs are not just battery packs and cordless tools simple motors. All of the major manufacturers now have microcontrollers in their battery packs and tools to control everything, log everything, and protect everything.

We asked Dewalt if they'll offer a 20V-to-18V adapter, and at the time they said "absolutely not" with the reasoning that there were many internal changes beyond the simple form factor.

Craftsman and Ryobi are both coming out with new battery packs - lower priced no-frills packs, and fully-featured packs with all the bells and whistles. The batteries are designed to upgrade existing tools. With Dewalt's 20V line, the batteries are designed to work with the newly designed 20V tools.

It's not just plug-and-play anymore, although it might still be possible to directly drive tools from car batteries. The price of batteries haven't gone down in recent years because they have increased in complexity.

I'm sure that Dewalt can bring an adapter to market, but for whatever reason they've decided not to and are telling everyone that they cannot.

From what I can tell, there is little performance advantage to powering 18V tools with 20V Max tools. There's certainly a convenience factor. 20V Max is just a naming convention.

From a marketing standpoint, it makes better sense for Dewalt to push for adoption of the 20V line. There's little reason to promote increased compatibility. People are going to be unhappy for a short time, but they'll get over it as they did when Bosch and Milwaukee updated their cordless platforms.

 

[sk farmer]

i know you have to play nice with the company guys to stay on good grace but i call bs on their story that they give you. somebody has opened up a new 20 volt max battery pack. i challenge them to show me this awesome peice of technology in the new battery pack. it may be in the tool or the charger but i highly doubt it is in the battery pack.

i am not trying to be a smartass, but somebody, prove me wrong. show me this amazing microcontroller/whatever it is that won't let it run or cause damage to itself or an old style tool. i just don't beleive it's in there.

i will use this as an example. think of all electronic doodads in a car, from the engine to brakes, radios, airbags etc. i don't care what kind of battery you put in there. if the voltage is correct, it works but a cordless tool is too "high tech".

 

[Tim The Tool Man]

I don't care what any of you say, any 18volt DC power source will power any 18volt tool. Heck, a 12 volt battery will power one as well. This is not rocket science.

Also, IMO Dewalt won't create an adapter for the simple reason that they want people to buy their new line of new tools. After all that is why the 20v line was created in the first place. I also bet that if some guy decides to make an adapter, not a hard task with the right tooling, and market it, say on ebay, Dewalt's lawyers will be all over him.

 

[honcho]

I've been wishing for an adapter to use the 20V batteries on my 18V tools as well. There's no reason it can't be made. Any necessary electronics to prevent excessive discharge conditions or to prevent charging lithium ion batteries via the Nicad charger could be easily incorporated into the adapter.

DeWalt isn't going to make it because they see different market segments for their tools and they want to divide and conquer to empty our collective wallets.

As an aside, most of the 18V line is made/assembled in Mexico and, to the best of my knowledge, the 20V line is sourced out of China. (Not to get wrapped up in COO politics, but I prefer supporting Mexican production over Chinese production). The 18V and 20V lines are aimed at different segments with some expected overlap. As for batteries, many of my older 18V batteries were made in Japan. I suspect the 20V batteries are completely sourced in China which makes them less expensive to make with proportionately higher profit margins.

With regard to profits on batteries, the 18V line has been around long enough now that any design patents have since expired. Considering the huge number of 18V DeWalt tools out there, third party batteries would cut into DeWalt's profits. With the 20V line, 3rd party batteries would likely infringe design or other patents. Also, there may be one or more patents protecting the 20V connection that would make it difficult to produce a non-infringing adapter by any third party. Ain't intellectual property rights wonderful?

Keep in mind that DeWalt (and most businesses) only care about their customers only insomuch as it contributes to their profitability.

 

[Stuey]

i know you have to play nice with the company guys to stay on good grace but i call bs on their story that they give you. somebody has opened up a new 20 volt max battery pack. i challenge them to show me this awesome peice of technology in the new battery pack. it may be in the tool or the charger but i highly doubt it is in the battery pack.

i am not trying to be a smartass, but somebody, prove me wrong. show me this amazing microcontroller/whatever it is that won't let it run or cause damage to itself or an old style tool. i just don't beleive it's in there.

i will use this as an example. think of all electronic doodads in a car, from the engine to brakes, radios, airbags etc. i don't care what kind of battery you put in there. if the voltage is correct, it works but a cordless tool is too "high tech".

It's not just Dewalt who takes this stance - everyone has been hyping up all the new fancy shmancy electronics and controls they built into their respective brands' latest-gen battery packs. Feedback circuits, extreme temperature operation, yadda yadda.

In a lot of cases battery tech is backwards compatible, but Dewalt reps deliberately stressed that their 20V batteries and tools are not and will never be backwards compatible with 18V batteries and tools. It's direct from the horse's mouth.

To be truthful, I haven't yet cracked open battery packs to see how feasible it would be to simply swap batteries and tools. I've been told enough times adapters won't be available that maybe I convinced myself that it's because the platforms cannot be compatible.

I'll see if I can dig up info, but if commercial adapters won't ever be available, it'll be far easier to just stick with one platform or the other for the foreseeable future.

No reason to upgrade everything to 20V as long as it works. Certain tools will present more of an upgrade advantage than just using the 20V battery packs. I just don't see the advantage. Until 4.0Ah battery packs come along, though. Maybe then we'll see the type of adapters that we're told would never be available, but unlikely - it remains constant that Dewalt hopes to focus heavily on 20V Max moving forward while perhaps passively supporting the 18V platform as it fades away over time.

 

[Chadwilliam1]

I have both at the house, doesn't bother me one bit. I mostly keep my 18 volt stuff in the garage and 20 volt in the basement. I do have 18 volt stuff I use in the basement like my jig saw and cordless grinder. I figured that they were going to start phasing out the 18 volt line when I bought it.

I also have the 20 volt at work, its nice because I am the only one. so my batteries never walk off.

 

[Displaced Hokie]

There is something in my 18v Li-Ion batteries that cuts off power when the battery is almost dead. The Ni-Cads will run down as you expect - slower, slower, until they are fully depleted. The Li-Ion get slower then just shut off. There is something in there protecting them from being 100% discharged. It's in the battery as this happens when I used the new Li-Ion batteries in my older tools.

Basically, Dewalt is not going to put engineering resources into that battery adapter as they want you moving on. Support of previous-generation product is a touchy and complex issue for mfgs...and one that almost all do a really poor job at. Obviously there is a point where you draw the line, but they should continue to upgrade the 18v batteries as technology moves forward. I'm not investing in new tools, but I would in new improved batteries.

 

[TwoInch]

dewalt wants you to buy new tools every couple years, not keep your old tools forever and use new batteries.

as does any company that is trying to make money, and continually introduce better(hopefully) products. "keepin up with the joneses" on both the companies part, and the consumers part(they hope) its not a coincidence how little compatibility there is out there these days.....

 

[SO/PW newbie]

There is something in there protecting them from being 100% discharged. It's in the battery as this happens when I used the new Li-Ion batteries in my older tools.

It just a protection pcb built in to the top of each cell for battery protection. You can't let lithium run below a certain voltage or some sort of damage will occur on the cell. Its all under each cells wrapper so you cant physically see it.

I agree that Dewalt is pushing the tools.

 

[Displaced Hokie]

It just a protection pcb built in to the top of each cell for battery protection. You can't let lithium run below a certain voltage or some sort of damage will occur on the cell. Its all under each cells wrapper so you cant physically see it.

I agree that Dewalt is pushing the tools.

Makes sense - thanks!

 

[Conductor562]

Alright guys, I see the point and I agree 18V DC is 18V DC, and the electronics that enable the tool and battery to communicate should be fine in a situation where the battery is equipped but the tool is not where as if it were the other way around it may be a different story, but at the end of the day why not just get a Nano base Li-Ion battery? That was kinda the whole point of it in the first place. It brought the XRP tools up with the times in terms of run time and all the other Li-Ion benefits and didn't render them totally obsolete like some new lines have done. They even have a charger that handles both types. The adapter is a good idea, but it's kinda solving a problem that's already been accounted for?

 

[sk farmer]

because for a multi tool system to work it takes at least two batteries, three is better but beyond that it is debatable. now add a second platform and you suddenly go to needing four or more batteries. if there was an adapter, one could in theory buy a new 20 volt max tool (or multi tool kit) with two batteries and gradually build into the new format, phasing out old 18 volt batteries as you go.

i for one would jump on that bandwagon very soon replacing old 18 volt for new max 20 as i go. now i am reluctant to do that having many newer 18 volt tools that should last well into the future.

such a move would

1. ensure old dewalt cutomers stay dewalt customers.

2. encourage people to buy new 20 voltmax tools knowing the can grow in to them.

3. allow dewalt to drop of 18 volt production of batterys and tools now ( no worry to old users, buy a new tool with batteries and an adapter and continue on).

but hey that way of thinking makes too much sense i guess.

 

[Conductor562]

because for a multi tool system to work it takes at least two batteries, three is better but beyond that it is debatable. now add a second platform and you suddenly go to needing four or more batteries. if there was an adapter, one could in theory buy a new 20 volt max tool (or multi tool kit) with two batteries and gradually build into the new format, phasing out old 18 volt batteries as you go.

i for one would jump on that bandwagon very soon replacing old 18 volt for new max 20 as i go. now i am reluctant to do that having many newer 18 volt tools that should last well into the future.

such a move would

1. ensure old dewalt cutomers stay dewalt customers.

2. encourage people to buy new 20 voltmax tools knowing the can grow in to them.

3. allow dewalt to drop of 18 volt production of batterys and tools now ( no worry to old users, buy a new tool with batteries and an adapter and continue on).

but hey that way of thinking makes too much sense i guess.

This whole XRP/20V Max deal was Dewalts best attempt to move on to the 20V Max without the XRP users feeling left out in the cold. It seems to have had the opposite effect. They waited forever to ditch the stem batteries or even jump to Li-Ion for that matter. After the mess Milwaukee got themselves in with their first crack at Lithium I guess their reservations are understandable. I had a similar debate on another forum about creating an adapter to allow for cordless tools to ran from 110AC. Like a battery pack with a cord. The guts of the pack of course being a DC converter. I dunno if its possible, but how awesome would that be? No more run time issues ever, especially with power hungry tools like circ saws, Sawzalls, etc. If your battery dies you can eliminate all down time without having a half dozen batteries. There are several situations it would prove advantageous. I'm no engineer but as a consumer it would be great.

 

[Conductor562]

I have a cordless and electric version of several tools and I feel many consumers would be able to eliminate the need for both. I guess that also explains why we'll never see one.

 

[Tim The Tool Man]

...and so you eventually break down and build yourself a decent selection of the new 20 volt Dewalt tools. Then guess what? Surprise! Dewalt changes the platform again to some 24 volt setup that isn't backward compatible and expect you to buy all new tools.

No Thanks.

 

[firebox40dash5]

...and so you eventually break down and build yourself a decent selection of the new 20 volt Dewalt tools. Then guess what? Surprise! Dewalt changes the platform again to some 24 volt setup that isn't backward compatible and expect you to buy all new tools.

No Thanks.

That's exactly what I'd expect. After all, their last battery design only lasted, what, 20ish years?

I can tell you that the batteries put out voltage that's perfectly usable just the same as any other battery. I bought an LXT contact plate and used to power an RC motor stuck in a Power Wheels, and it worked just fine.

However, I wouldn't expect Dewalt to make, sell, or even license an adapter from the old battery to the new one. As someone else said, they only care about how satisfied you are if it affects their bottom line. They're not going to give up selling a bunch of new tools so you can use your old ones with the new batteries. I'd pretty much guarantee that their claim that the old tools wouldn't work with the new batteries is just a straw man... it sounds a whole lot better than admitting "well, we could, but we want to force your hand into buying all new tools" doesn't it?

 

[NUTTSGT]

It's going to a long time before I purchase a Dewalt 20V tool. My 18V stuff is just fine and give it time, you'll see knock off batteries being made.

 

[sk farmer]

i really wonder if they could prevent someone from making an adapter. there are all sorts of aftermarket products for everything imaginable. as long as you don't promote it as a dewalt. i doubt they own the words 18 volt or 20 volt. it could be marketed as a yellow adapter. i know they would threaten anyone who would try it but could they stop it?

of course we all know they are in the market to sell tools but i really think the adapter would help them sell more tools.

 

[03protege]

The battery packs are not just battery packs and cordless tools simple motors. All of the major manufacturers now have microcontrollers in their battery packs and tools to control everything, log everything, and protect everything.

We asked Dewalt if they'll offer a 20V-to-18V adapter, and at the time they said "absolutely not" with the reasoning that there were many internal changes beyond the simple form factor.

Craftsman and Ryobi are both coming out with new battery packs - lower priced no-frills packs, and fully-featured packs with all the bells and whistles. The batteries are designed to upgrade existing tools. With Dewalt's 20V line, the batteries are designed to work with the newly designed 20V tools.

It's not just plug-and-play anymore, although it might still be possible to directly drive tools from car batteries. The price of batteries haven't gone down in recent years because they have increased in complexity.

I'm sure that Dewalt can bring an adapter to market, but for whatever reason they've decided not to and are telling everyone that they cannot.

From what I can tell, there is little performance advantage to powering 18V tools with 20V Max tools. There's certainly a convenience factor. 20V Max is just a naming convention.

From a marketing standpoint, it makes better sense for Dewalt to push for adoption of the 20V line. There's little reason to promote increased compatibility. People are going to be unhappy for a short time, but they'll get over it as they did when Bosch and Milwaukee updated their cordless platforms.

So if i was to take a light bulb with a tail and touch it on the battery connectors I would not get light because It needs a microprocessor/controller? I feel like such a simpleton that I do not understand this.

Also I believe when I was researching Milwaukee their batteries will initially start higher than what it says on the label. I need to try and find that literature.

 

[03protege]

i really wonder if they could prevent someone from making an adapter. there are all sorts of aftermarket products for everything imaginable. as long as you don't promote it as a dewalt. i doubt they own the words 18 volt or 20 volt. it could be marketed as a yellow adapter. i know they would threaten anyone who would try it but could they stop it?

of course we all know they are in the market to sell tools but i really think the adapter would help them sell more tools.

I don't see why you couldn't market it as "Adapts Dewalt 20v to 18v...) as long as you don't try and sell it as an official Dewalt product.

 

[sk farmer]

That's exactly what I'd expect. After all, their last battery design only lasted, what, 20ish years?

I can tell you that the batteries put out voltage that's perfectly usable just the same as any other battery. I bought an LXT contact plate and used to power an RC motor stuck in a Power Wheels, and it worked just fine.

However, I wouldn't expect Dewalt to make, sell, or even license an adapter from the old battery to the new one. As someone else said, they only care about how satisfied you are if it affects their bottom line. They're not going to give up selling a bunch of new tools so you can use your old ones with the new batteries. I'd pretty much guarantee that their claim that the old tools wouldn't work with the new batteries is just a straw man... it sounds a whole lot better than admitting "well, we could, but we want to force your hand into buying all new tools" doesn't it?

i would bet money that such an adapter exists at least on paper and probably in actual use. it was more than likely used to test that battery platfrom on the plethora of old school 18 volt tools. it is the sale and liscence we should not expect.

anybody with both platforms willing to hack up an old 18 volt battery to test the theory. with that, the part to accept the slide on battery should be fairly easy to duplicate. especially if you have a mill.

 

[Stuey]

So if i was to take a light bulb with a tail and touch it on the battery connectors I would not get light because It needs a microprocessor/controller? I feel like such a simpleton that I do not understand this.

Also I believe when I was researching Milwaukee their batteries will initially start higher than what it says on the label. I need to try and find that literature.

Truth is, I don't know, haven't checked. All I know is that the tools and battery packs have more brains than ever before, and can tell service centers everything about tool and battery usage history.

18V batteries have 3 connectors, tools have 2. 20V batteries have 5 connectors, tools have 4. It could just be parallel rails, but I haven't dissected any tools yet to find out.

 

[firebox40dash5]

Truth is, I don't know, haven't checked. All I know is that the tools and battery packs have more brains than ever before, and can tell service centers everything about tool and battery usage history.

18V batteries have 3 connectors, tools have 2. 20V batteries have 5 connectors, tools have 4. It could just be parallel rails, but I haven't dissected any tools yet to find out.

I haven't looked at any of Dewalt's new stuff, but all my Makita tools have 2 contacts. The other contacts on the battery are for the charger. You can discharge a lithium battery just fine, as long as you don't draw too much current... it's the charging part that requires a little finesse and technology to prevent bad things, such as :kaboom:.

I can tell you 100% that my Makita kit light has every bit of three wires... two from the battery, and one from the power switch. Nothing fancy in there.

They could sell an adapter just fine... but they won't.

Actually, IIRC I got the Power Wheels inspiration from a guy that milled LXT adapters out of UHMWPE to power big RC plane starters.

 

[bimmerZ5]

dudes... a battery pack is a battery pack is a battery pack... there's going to be a positive terminal and a negative terminal and there's going to be a voltage/potential difference between them that supplies power. that's why it's called a "battery" pack, not a super duper whiz bang marvel of electronics pack.

go ahead, open one of these up, the charger or the battery... if you've studied any electronics, you'll realize you're not going to find some supercomputer in there. the super hi-tech, intelligent, advanced, microcontroller is probably a $3 programmable microcontroller that's no more sophisticated than the chip inside that large display hand held calculator you gave grandma last year for Christmas so she can calculate how much to leave for you in her will.

i haven't opened up the latest and greatest battery packs with a gazillion connectors, but the last time I opened up a Dewalt 18V XRP Li-Ion or NiCd battery pack, i wasn't inspired to go find myself and the meaning of life. other than the + and - terminals, there was an extra terminal that connected to what looked like a thermal sensor glued to one of the batteries. probably a good idea since the battery cells can heat up during charging and is probably what is used by the charger to decide how much current to push or when to stop charging and allow cool down. i imagine the gazillion minus 2 connectors on the new batteries are something similar, but equally simplistic. before they added a temp sensor to the battery packs, you could even try to detect the temperature of the batteries through the +/- terminals since the heat would conduct through the copper connectors; some "advanced" chargers do this ... open up a charger and you might find something glued to the charging terminals with a wire coming off of it.

whatever the electronics that goes into these things these days is not going to compare to your iphone. an adapter can be made easily, and if there's anything "sophisticated" about it, it's not something one can't work around with basic electronic parts from RadioShack. i just think you guys are way over thinking this ... just open one up.

 

[sk farmer]

^^^^^^^this is what i am talking about^^^^^^^^

i think the mfgs. are slinging a large shovel full of excrement on this. there may be some sophisticated "things" in the charger or tool but nobody has shown me anything high tech in a battery. i know some milwaukee batters could be slid on from the front or back. maybe dewalt has incorporated these provisions for some differant type of application, expalining the extra terminals.

further example. i have several automitive batteries with top and side post terminals. four terminals? that sucker must have some fancy electronics built in it.

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Digging this thread back up as I'd also like to see an adapter to use Dewalt's newer "20V" form factor with the older 18V tools. Note that I put 20V in quotes, as it's really not 20V but rather 18V, same as the older tools. Thus, voltage is essentially the same.

Here's someone who adapted Ryobi batteries for use with Dewalt tools, so certainly the idea is viable...

You'll see in the comments below a claim that Black & Decker forced eBay to pull the sale of this adapter - not sure I believe that.

Any way, just thought I'd try to keep this idea alive. I haven't bought any Black & Decker/Dewalt tools since they came out with the incompatible "20V" line. I would if there was compatibility to the older tools which I'm fully invested in. I feel like that was a mistake now.

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Talk about ironic timing, someone just gave me two Black & Decker 18V garden tools and two chargers (no batteries though). I'm pretty sure that the B&D 18V stuff is essentially the same as the Dewalt 20V line - as mentioned above the Dewalt "20V" is just phony branding.

So now all I need is a old style Dewalt or B&D 18V battery to use as a zombie for my adapter. I'll use one of the new style B&D 18V chargers I just got for the bottom half of my adapter. Anyone have a dead 18V Dewalt battery they want to donate to the cause?

BTW, looking at both the B&D 18V tools and chargers I just got, it appears they all have just two contacts. Perhaps the "20V Dewalt" stuff adds contacts for some extra level of sophistication lacking in the low-end B&D stuff. Dunno, but that would make sense given the positioning of the two product lines. But it may very well make adapting the B&D 18V batteries the better/cheaper choice.

 

[beamrider]

A. Rebuilding an 18v nicd pack is easy and cheap. Who cares about upgrading?
B. Any li-on cell pack worth its salt should have a board inside the pack, and each cell should connect to the pack separately. This is because a typical 18650 li-on cell charges to ~4.2v, is nominal at 3.7, and should never be allowed to discharge below ~2.75v. So each cell should have its own separate charging circuit, wether it be dependant on amperage/temperature/etc.
C. Rebuilding a li-on pack can be fairly cheap, a nd even simpler many times as well. You should replace ALL the cells in the pack at the same time,regardless of wether or not only 1 is shot. This is more expensive, but safer as well. And all the li-on tool packs I've torn apart, the cells aren't soldered in, but have connectors spot welded to them. Unplug cells, plug in new cells, voila! This does depend on wether or not something on the PCB has blown, but I've not seen a fried board yet, it's always a single cell that has **** itself. A regular pack will probably have 5 cells, and a heavy duty pack probably 10.

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

^^^ Thanks for the education. Given that I use my cordless tools sporadically, for me it's about not needing to have a bunch of different battery platforms. So if I could migrate to the newer slide-in style battery (as my old ones die off), and be able to use those with my older Dewalt tools, I'd feel better about investing in newer Dewalt tools as needed.

I know an appropriate charger needs to be used with Li-ion cell pack, that's a given. But when it comes to managing the cell-pack for things like the 2.75V cut-off, is that intelligence all in the battery, or is there something required in the tool as well?