Compressor Set up.

[Fire&Steel]

So I know this question may have an obvious answer. I was thinking of using 1/2" PVC pipe to run air thru my whole shop. Has anyone on here done this? Any tips or ideas would be great.

 

[markf4e]

If you search for PVC air lines, there are a lot of threads on it. But in summary, when PVC fails it fails catastrophically. You would be better served with copper or black iron pipe

edit - google search link here: click

 

[Falcon67]

Been a while since we had a big Air Line Thread of No.

<table summary="" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="620"><tbody><tr><td class="blackTen" nowrap="nowrap" width="159">MEMORANDUM FOR:</td><td class="blackTen" width="449">REGIONAL ADMINISTRATORS</td></tr><tr valign="top"> <td class="blackTen">THROUGH:</td><td class="blackTen">LEO CAREY
Director
Office of Field Programs</td></tr><tr valign="top"> <td class="blackTen">FROM: </td><td class="blackTen"> EDWARD BAIER
Director
Directorate of Technical Support</td></tr> <tr><td>
</td></tr> <tr><td class="blackTen" valign="top">SUBJECT:</td><td class="blackTen">Safety Hazard Information Bulletin on
the Use of Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) Pipe
in Above ground Installations</td></tr> </tbody></table>
The Dallas Regional Office has brought to our attention a potential serious hazard existing with the use of polyvinyl chloride (PVC) plastic pipes for transporting compressed gases in above ground installations. An employee in a Texas plant was injured recently by a rupture in a PVC compressed air line. Plastic projectiles from the point of rupture caused lacerations of the employee's hand. This is noteworthy because the Plastic Pipe Institute, in its Recommendation B dated January 19, 1972, recommends against the use of thermoplastic pipe to transport compressed air or other compressed gases in exposed plant piping. (See attachment.)

Furthermore, sections 842.32, 842.43 and 849.52(b) of the American National Standards Institute/American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ANSI/ASME) B31.8-1986, Gas Transmission and Distribution Piping Systems Standard, limit the operating pressure of plastic piping distribution systems to 100 pounds per inch (psi) and prohibit the installation of such systems above ground except where ". . . the above ground portion of the plastic service line is completely enclosed in a conduit or casing of sufficient strength to provide protection from external damage and deterioration." (Excerpts attached.)

Additional consensus standards applicable to PVC compressed gas systems include American Society for Testing Materials (ASTM) D1785-86, Standard Specification for Polyvinyl Chloride Plastic Pipe, Schedules 40, 80, and 120, and ASTM D2513-86a, Standard Specification for Thermoplastic Gas Pressure Piping Systems.

Please disseminate this bulletin to all Area Offices, State Plan States and Consultation Projects.

Attachments

October 5, 1988

Mr. Tim Arbogast
Arizona OSHA
800 W. Washington
Phoenix, Arizona 85007-2922

Dear Mr. Arbogast:

It has recently come to my attention that there is a severe safety regarding the improper usage of plastic polyvinyl chloride (PVC) pipe. This pipe is designed for the transmittal of liquids, and is dangerous when used for transmitting compressed air or gas. Unfortunately, PVC has been frequently used with compressed air in construction projects across the country.

The state of Washington has notified the public that PVC pipe is not to be used in compressed air systems. I have also learned that the state of Nevada is in the process of making a similar determination and announcement. Additionally manufacturers of this product advise against its use with compressed air in their catalogue publications.

I believe that it is in the best interests of the citizens of our state if your office would expeditiously make such an announcement. A notice to users of the hazards of PVC pipe - when used improperly - would have the effect of preventing possible severe injury to people who work with or near this product.

By way of this letter, I am contacting the Department of Labor, OSHA, in Washington, D.C. and asking their officials to report to me on actions taken on the Federal level to restrict the use of this pipe and to notify users of the potential hazards involved in improper use of PVC pipe.

Your timely consideration of this request is appreciated.

Sincerely,

DENNIS DeCONCINI
United States Senator

 

[ksj9393]

So I know this question may have an obvious answer. I was thinking of using 1/2" PVC pipe to run air thru my whole shop. Has anyone on here done this? Any tips or ideas would be great.

You are correct... Answer is obvious (for most of us, anyhow): DON'T DO IT!

I plan to use black pipe, mostly because I have a pile of it lying around from my plumber father-in-law. I know many people who use a rated PEX product, but this must be protected from UV light or it will degrade over the long haul. (Remember to protect from welding operation UV, too)

 

[Fire&Steel]

Thanks for your in-put. After doing a google search on it. I found someone ask this question back in 2010. I just thought what I guess alot have thought that if pvc can hold 400 psi of water it should be ok for air. I do know there is a company that sells at Northern Tool http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200367525_200367525. It looks like a pex water pipe. Im just looking for the cheapest way to do it. And PVC is cheap. I dont know what 1/2 iron pipe is going for now, but I know what copper is.

 

[Fire&Steel]

This brings up another question for me then. I can see cooper not blowing into a million pieses cause its soft and bends. But I would think iron pipe would blow just like PVC. Im not an engineer and people have been useing iron pipe for years so it mus not be a problem. besides being cheap, pvc wont rust like iron pipe. So that would be a big plus

 

[Fire&Steel]

NT sells a kit that looks just like pex water pipe. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200367525_200367525. So could I use pex?

 

[Alchymist]

Here we go again!

 

[Fastback]

Do not use copper that is soldered together. It must be brazed. If you have a fire the solder joints will fall apart and then your air line is feeding the fire.

I used galvanized 3/4" pipe. No rust, super strong and can be purchased pre-threaded in various lengths and valves thread right onto the pipe with no chance of the valve getting knocked off. Also, the more pipe mass you have the more heat the pipe can dissipate. This helps for condensation control.


I learnt all that stuff here on the several other air line threads.

 

[Fire&Steel]

I just read about people using air brake lines. Anyone done this?

 

[PAToyota]

But I would think iron pipe would blow just like PVC. Im not an engineer and people have been useing iron pipe for years so it mus not be a problem. besides being cheap, pvc wont rust like iron pipe. So that would be a big plus

The difference is that you're talking at least a factor of 10 between the pressure that PVC will blow at vs. the pressure that iron will blow at...

 

[Steevo]

I'm gonna go make popcorn and get a beer so I can sit and watch this thread devolve.

 

[roblouvasz]

I'll throw in my 0.02 cents worth. One main reason you should be using black iron, is that you want the warm compressed air to be able to cool some what when it comes out of the compressor and hits the lines. This allows the moisture in the airlines to condense and to be removed more effectively by your moisture traps. With other types of lines (copper/PVC) The air stays too warm). Yes other methods may be quicker and cheaper, but do you want to ruin a paint job with excessive moisture or ruin several hundred dollars of paint etc? Check out TP Tools web site. There is good advice and diagrams on how to properly plumb airlines from a compressor to a whole shop. I'm sure I'll get a backlash of other members saying their shop has been plumbed using copper pex etc for years with no problems but using black iron is the way I've done it for over 20 years.

 

[Fire&Steel]

Thankyou Roblouvasz

 

[Stuart in MN]

This brings up another question for me then. I can see cooper not blowing into a million pieses cause its soft and bends. But I would think iron pipe would blow just like PVC. Im not an engineer and people have been useing iron pipe for years so it mus not be a problem. besides being cheap, pvc wont rust like iron pipe. So that would be a big plus

The difference is iron pipe is ductile - it will bend if it ruptures. PVC will shatter.

 

[brownbagg]

if you use pvc, you are a fricken idiot, now that i got your attention, think of some other material just for the safety of you and your children in the garage

 

[Falcon67]

I prefer the black iron and it does help condense the water out of the air. I built a cooling stack out of 1 1/2" iron pipe that is right off the compressor and so far I haven't seen any water at the outlets.

 

[isaac338]

This has to be a troll thread.

 

[Fastback]

What kinda oil is best?

 

[Jack Olsen]

Fire&Steel, it's a discussion that comes up every so often. The answer is straightforward and always the same. PVC is not designed for use with compressed gas. The PVC industry's manufacturing association warns against using it with compressed gas. OSHA doesn't allow it, either.

(Actually, there is a grade of PVC that is designed for use with compressed gasses, but it's significantly more expensive than the stuff you see in hardware and big box stores.)

Black pipe and Harbor Freight PEX are both pretty cheap. I've even seen air lines used for distribution. There are clever ways to do it. But PVC has a history of significant and dangerous failures when used in this application.

 

[Fire&Steel]

Fire&Steel, it's a discussion that comes up every so often. The answer is straightforward and always the same. PVC is not designed for use with compressed gas. The PVC industry's manufacturing association warns against using it with compressed gas. OSHA doesn't allow it, either.

(Actually, there is a grade of PVC that is designed for use with compressed gasses, but it's significantly more expensive than the stuff you see in hardware and big box stores.)

Black pipe and Harbor Freight PEX are both pretty cheap. I've even seen air lines used for distribution. There are clever ways to do it. But PVC has a history of significant and dangerous failures when used in this application.

( Best post yet) thankyou. I realy dont think this was a dumb question. The intrnet is filled with stuff on this same thing.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

We just had THIS SAME THREAD back in September.

Actually the plastic stuff that is approved for compressed air is not PVC but rather it is ABS based. ABS is a much softer stuff that simply ruptures and splits and does not shatter. Nibco made Chemair for a while, but ceased, and now a company called IPEX makes a stiff or rigid pipe that is either a pex or ABS based material that is OSHA approved for air, plus all the fittings. It cuts and glues like PVC but is metric sized to keep it from being interchanged with other pipes. Also is the correct OSHA color (blue) for air.

Charles

 

[sublimate]

When are we going to get a thread about using old car gas tanks - half filled with gasoline - as air compressor storage tanks?

 

[68 Bird]

Even though I'm a Newb to GJ, this struck me as funny. While a lurker I read several threads on GJ and some of them get quite humorous.

I have done a couple of garages with PVC without a failure before I knew better.

The new shop has garden variety PEX from Home Despot for distribution with copper drops.

 

[68 Bird]

Do not use copper that is soldered together. It must be brazed. If you have a fire the solder joints will fall apart and then your air line is feeding the fire.

Sorry, I can't leave this thread alone. I'm helping Steevo.

No disrepect Fastback but I'm thinking if my shop catches on fire and burns to the point that it melts the soldered joints in the copper air lines I would just as soon let the whole mess burn to the ground, collect the insurance and start over.

 

[Tim The Tool Man]

Can I use my old water heater as an auxiliary air tank if I properly plumb it with PVC?

 

[Alchymist]

When are we going to get a thread about using old car gas tanks - half filled with gasoline - as air compressor storage tanks?

Nah, we need another thread on backfeeding the house from a generator via the dryer plug!

 

[68 Bird]

Nah, we need another thread on backfeeding the house from a generator via the dryer plug!

That doesn't work?

 

[roblouvasz]

Hey Fire&Steel just another thought, I used to work in a bodyshop that was plumbed with pvc. I had to put on inline filters to keep the moisture out of the guns. . Especially on humid days with more than one guy taxxing the air compressor. Trust me, check out TP Tools in Canfield Ohio. If you can't find their website, PM me and I'll get it off their catalog. I'm in Ohio, if you lived closer I'd come over and help you!

 

[Alchymist]

That doesn't work?

Nope:

 

[68 Bird]

What's the record for number of posts on this thread topic?

 

[Alchymist]

What's the record for number of posts on this thread topic?

Don't know, and it's probably a toss-up as to which subject (pvc airlines or backfeeding) has generated the most threads on the internet!

 

[68 Bird]

Don't know, and it's probably a toss-up as to which subject (pvc airlines or backfeeding) has generated the most threads on the internet!

Sorry, I meant PVC airlines. I think a new record is in order here.

 

[wedge40]

I have to ask, there is another thread about "show us your compressors" And in that thread there are lots of guys who have purchased used compressors, some almost 50 years old. Are they not just as stupid as the guy using PVC? That tank could blow at any time.

Wedge

 

[68 Bird]

I have to ask, there is another thread about "show us your compressors" And in that thread there are lots of guys who have purchased used compressors, some almost 50 years old. Are they not just as stupid as the guy using PVC? That tank could blow at any time.

Wedge

I suppose it depends on how well they were maintained / drained but how would you ever really know? By the time rust starts showing through to the outside it's too late. Good point.

 

[PAToyota]

I have to ask, there is another thread about "show us your compressors" And in that thread there are lots of guys who have purchased used compressors, some almost 50 years old. Are they not just as stupid as the guy using PVC? That tank could blow at any time.

Chances are that if they rust through they're going to spring a leak - not explode in shrapnel...

 

[Fire&Steel]

I have to ask, there is another thread about "show us your compressors" And in that thread there are lots of guys who have purchased used compressors, some almost 50 years old. Are they not just as stupid as the guy using PVC? That tank could blow at any time.

Wedge

Thankyou. And for the record I have not used PVC pipe. I was asking if people do use it. And it seams there are many who do. But as price and safty goes, Im going to use air brake lines.

Also someone said the reason iron pipe does not blow up is its ductile iron. I want to tell them thats wrong. Ductile iron pipe is very pricey and hard to find in anything under 4". Its what we use for water pipe in the ground.

 

[Fire&Steel]

Thankyou. And for the record I have not used PVC pipe. I was asking if people do use it. And it seams there are many who do. But as price and safty goes, Im going to use air brake lines.

Also someone said the reason iron pipe does not blow up is its ductile iron. I want to tell them thats wrong. Ductile iron pipe is very pricey and hard to find in anything under 4". Its what we use for water pipe in the ground.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122879&showall=1

 

[MoparTrucks]

Chances are that if they rust through they're going to spring a leak - not explode in shrapnel...

Check out this from a welding forum where the guy thought the same thing.

The pictures alone should give people pause in purchasing and using an old pressure tank.

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?p=455570#post455570

 

[68 Bird]

Check out this from a welding forum where the guy thought the same thing.

The pictures alone should give people pause in purchasing and using an old pressure tank.

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?p=455570#post455570

Holy hand grenade batman! I never would have thought it would have fragged that bad. I wonder if something else may have been flawed. Never the less, I'm never using a compressor again and I have 3, all bought new of course.