Toilet fill valve

[SGKent]

I have two Kohler toilets about 10 years old. They are low flow. They came with rather quiet fill valves - the typical kind you get in a HD or Lowes - tube with a float that sits around it and rides up and down. The issue is that the toilet tanks take forever to refill. I run about 60 PSI in the house lines so it isn't low pressure. I would say that from empty to full is 7 to 8 minutes. Very quiet but just too long. Does anyone who works with professional plumbing have a recommendation of a brand that refills quickly and is quiet within reason?

I also have a second question no one has been able to answer. The pipe the toilet sits on is about 3 -4" as I recall. The toilet has a ceramic flange at the base that is much smaller than the pipe or the wax rings - the opening size approximates a wax ring style with the horn. Even a wax ring with a horn is angled towards the hole. What it its purpose other than to cause the toilet to get plugged? It is a 90 degree lip so anything hitting it is going to get stuck. I looked when the toilets were installed to see if maybe the flange was perforated etc so one could break it off for larger pipe but that flange is cast and any attempt to remove it would fracture the toilet. Any ideas what the purpose is?

 

[jrsulo]

Sounds like a bad washer in the shutoof valve.....or a restriction in the toilet supply itself.

 

[Gary S]

Replacement valves are cheap. If I wasn't happy with one of mine, I'd pick up a different one and try again.

 

[Stuart in MN]

The valves probably worked well to start, but they've gotten clogged up with sediment or lime deposits over the years.

 

[SGKent]

The valves probably worked well to start, but they've gotten clogged up with sediment or lime deposits over the years.

They never worked well, I am just tired of waiting for it to fill if it needs multiple flushes like when cleaning with bleach.

 

[Sureshot]

For the price I would change one and see if it improves. You need a spare around anyway.

 

[930dreamer]

I just replaced the guts of a regular flush, sounds like the supply line is blocked, 30 seconds should be max. Video below.

 

[kbs2244]

I belive there is a black rubber washer in that style valve that can get old and stiff.
Replacment are less that $10.00

 

[Ron Lombardo]

... You have to use genuine kohler parts ... Nothing else will work.

 

[indyokie]

7-8 mins is a sign of something off,

Not uncommon that the fill valve will have a restriction - and the Toliet gets the blame.
I've been in plumbing all my life.
In my home, I would run thru a checklist
1. - ensure the shut off valve is 100% open ( run it all the way off and all the way open )
2. - take supply line ( often flexible ) off before it gets to the toilet, grab a bucket, and
flush this line - see if your getting ablity to fill a gallon bucket quickly - your filling tank that is holding 1.6 gallons ( or only refilling 1.6 gallons each flush )

- if this is great flow- then your down to the Fluidmaster - Kohler has used Fludimaster fill valves for over 10 years, on MOST - not all models.

You can rebuild the unit your have as KBS2244 says for under $ 10.00, but a 100% correct Kohler part will likely less than 20.00 per unit and you'll know your've got the correct part- it matters as the refill flow rate determines the water level in the bowl and

3. - replace the Fluidmaster fill valve Kohler uses with the proper version. - there is a
part number inside your tank - Since Jan 2002 Kohler put a sticker on bottom of the tank lid - this will provide you the part number needed.

Not 100% sure what you mean with the size of the toilet at the flange. Most toilet flanges are 3" or 4" - a 10 year old Kohler unit is going to be exiting with 2 or 2-1/2 " exit. A small exit isn't the worry - Your creating a siphon to evacuate the waste- without the siphon, you're not going to get it into the waste pipe.

 

[SGKent]

thanks guys. There are two toilets and nothing is wrong with the supply side. These have done it this way since the day they were installed. I have tested the supply hose and it can fill a 5 gallon bucket in no time. It was whatever the brand was that Home Depot was supplying with them when I bought them. I don't want to spend $25 and the time to install one that does the same. The old toilets had twice the water and filled in under a minute. It is the fill valve.

 

[AndyA]

I put in a replacement one from Lowes. I think it cost roughly $10.

As a side note, it's called a "ball ****".... also quite fun to request one from the cute girl that works plumbing at lowes.

 

[930dreamer]

Have you tried removing the fill valve? cap and running the water through it.

 

[rharman]

... You have to use genuine kohler parts ... Nothing else will work.

I used to follow that line of thought, but....

Just had a fill valve snap off and replaced it with a Fluidmaster 400A. Kohler valve has "Fluidmaster" stamped right on it. $20 for Kohler, $7 for Fluidmaster. Looking at the Kohler website, it appears that they've superceded all the part numbers for their fillers with a generic adjustable height - AKA "Fluidmaster".

I will say, however, that the Fluidmaster is louder than the original Kohler but I can't compare it to the current Kohler parts.

Takes about 45 seconds to fill but I have the angle stop valve turned down.

 

[SGKent]

I used to follow that line of thought, but....

Just had a fill valve snap off and replaced it with a Fluidmaster 400A. Kohler valve has "Fluidmaster" stamped right on it. $20 for Kohler, $7 for Fluidmaster. Looking at the Kohler website, it appears that they've superceded all the part numbers for their fillers with a generic adjustable height - AKA "Fluidmaster".

I will say, however, that the Fluidmaster is louder than the original Kohler but I can't compare it to the current Kohler parts.

Takes about 45 seconds to fill but I have the angle stop valve turned down.

Now the plot thickens. These are also fluidmaster 400A series on the float but the valve at the top says Kohler Ingenium on them. Apparently they are special Kohler quieted down versions of the standard fluidmaster and if I can find a way to pull the cap there is a restriction by design in them. I found a thread on the issue. I will do it next weekend so if I break the cap I can replace them easily. Looking online there appear to be two styles that have the built in float and a third which has the ball ****. The two with a built in float are Korky and Fluidmaster. The one with the ball **** is Coastal. I'd rather use a built in float as I believe they are more reliable - I can remember over the years having to bend ball **** arms to get the water levels right and six month later doing it again. Anyone know whether Korky or the suggested Fluidmaster work better? 6 is 1/2 dozen kind of thing?

 

[Ron Lombardo]

I used to follow that line of thought, but....

Keep in mind the flapper and douglas valve are different from what you purchase at HOME STORES ... the Kohler flapper has a small styrofoam float which unless its a Kohler will continue to give your problems . We also go one step further on the one peice Kohler toilets and purchase the entire Rebuilt kit for about 80.00. This ensure you cover all the bases ...

 

[indyokie]

Fluidmaster does in fact produce fill valves in a Kohler Ingenium models. You are correct that several older Kohler (fluidmaster made ) fill vavle numbers of the existing part numbers you'll see were rolled into two adjustible units -these differ when your adjustment is made via the supplied insert. If you arrive with a Gp1138930 or other - what your paying for is a 400A with the tricks which make them tweeked for that Kohler unit - on the package it will guide you which fill valve port to use on the model Kohler you have- this way - it's set up the way it should perform best. Your refilling the bowl once the flush is complete ( flapper down ) so it's a matter of the refill tube at times not needing to supply as much water right away. To much water in the bowl and you have the added work of removal more water in the bowl than was designed. - You use this prouduct every day - and other that visit....Thus it's worth a few extra dollars to know your getting the fill valve set up correctly right ?

 

[rharman]

I used to follow that line of thought, but....

Keep in mind the flapper and douglas valve are different from what you purchase at HOME STORES ... the Kohler flapper has a small styrofoam float which unless its a Kohler will continue to give your problems . We also go one step further on the one peice Kohler toilets and purchase the entire Rebuilt kit for about 80.00. This ensure you cover all the bases ...

Agreed on the flappers. I stick to genuine Kohler on those. We'll see how this filler replacement works out. Figured it was worth a shot considering the savings.

 

[mslisaj]

I have the answer you're looking for SGKent..................

I have two Kohler toilets in my home. Installed them new and they have the "Fluidmaster" look alike valve in them. All works well but they are very slow fillers out of the box. Well I had a problem with Thermal expansion in the water system in my house and doing a lot of internet searching on the subject I discovered the Watts 80 fill valve. This is an older appearing valve because it has the old tank ball and lever. But it's really a very modern valve and it has a preset pressure relief valve for the thermal expansion problem I had. The valve wasn't cheap. I believe I shopped the internet and found one delivered for about $45. Yes it solved the thermal expansion problem but the other and more important benefit was this valve will fill the tank in about 25 seconds. It's amazingly fast and quiet too. Here is the Watts Link so you can see what I'm talking about:

http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=855

You're original question on your thread here was asking about the slow fill and you have received many helpful answers but your still dealing with Fluidmaster designed valve and that is where the problem lies. Yes the valve works as advertised but it's a very lazy filling valve. I have installed maybe five or six new Fluidmaster style valves in my career and they all work the same. They work well but are the slowest filling things in the world. You want a fast fill valve check out that Watts valve. They may make a cheaper one of that designed without the pressure relief valve and that would do the job. But here is you fix. And yes it's as simple to put in as any other valve.

Hope that helps......................

Lisa

 

[rharman]

OK, resurrecting this thread.

I have one toilet with the OEM Kohler fill valve. However, the outlet port for the refill tube is sealed.

My wife wants to add the FluidMaster Flush 'N' Sparkle bleach dispenser. It runs the refill water through a canister and then down the tube to the tank.

Can the refill port be drilled out on the fill valve? I thought it might be a plug I could pop out with a punch but no luck there - at least, trying it in place. My alternative is to replace the fill valve but I really don't want to unless there is no other way.

Thanks.