The Rat's New Garage

[Rowdy Rat]

I found the Garage Journal three years ago through a link posted on another site… Wandered on over and have been here ever since. One of the best sites on the web as far as I’m concerned. At the time I joined, I had a very nice 28’ x 24’ garage with a 24’ x 10’ workshop. It was a good setup, but it was definitely compromised in many ways due to the design constraints of the house when I built it.

Three years down the road now and have gone through some major life changes that included getting married and selling my home. My wife has always been understanding of my hobby and agreed that we needed to build a dedicated garage for my cars and projects. Fortunately, the lot was big enough to accommodate a second garage and after a year of planning, township meetings, and research, I am ready to get started.

The initial plan was for a 40’ x 32’ detached garage with a 12’ ceiling. This would bring it in just under our townships lot coverage requirement. During the permit application process, I was informed that there was a height restriction on detached structures so a change was made to create a covered storage room between the house and garage… Problem solved and it allows me to put the air compressor in a separate room to reduce the noise in the garage.

The final plan:

Facing the garage, the bay on the far right will be used for service work as well as parking and will have an in ground lift installed. My decision to use an in ground lift raised the cost a bit over a two post lift, but I am trying to maximize space and I believe that the in ground lift is a good way to do that.

The center bay will be a detail area as well as parking and will have a large commercial drain. I learned my lesson on my last garage which also had a drain: the four inch diameter units with one inch outlets that you find at the home improvement stores definitely won’t remove large volumes of water quickly. What I plan to go with is overkill, but then so is the garage.

The last area in front of the man door will be used for project car and parts storage. At some point I may angle two four post lifts in that area to increase the number of cars that I can store, but for now it will meet my needs as is.

The area toward the back of the garage will eventually be the workshop area and will get a nice compliment of Lista cabinets, but that program is definitely a year down the road.

A couple other notable garage features include heating and air conditioning. I ended up with heat and a/c in my last garage due to builder oversight and I will never have another garage without it. It really makes working on the cars enjoyable when the temperature and humidity are extreme. An audio/video system (of some type) will be installed to catch a game or listen to music while I work as well as a security system. An epoxy floor will definitely be on the list as well.

I’ll leave this first post with a couple photos of the proposed build site. Plenty of open space that will look even better with a new garage on it!

Next week's installment... Construction begins!

Regards,

Stan

 

[rsanter]

the only question that comes to nind is will you still have drive in access to the back yard?
if not you may want to look at the option of having one drive through bay in case you ever wanted to bring large things into the back yard (spa, tractor, big manly barbque,,,etc)

bob

 

[PAToyota]

rsanter has a good point. It does look like you will still be able to drive around the end of the garage, but it might be nice to at least have a set of double doors for a "shortcut" for easier access.

Whereabouts in PA? Looks like it could be around here.

 

[thetastelingers]

Ooh fun!
lookin good so far.

 

[Rowdy Rat]

Thanks for the comments gentlemen.

The lot is basically wedge shaped and is located on the corner of a cul-de-sac... Just under 3/4 of an acre in size. The garage is being built on the narrow (cul-de-sac) end of the lot with the location pretty much dictated by the local ordinances. While not easily seen in the photos, there is another road that describes our property line on the far side of the pool... There really is a lot of room to get equipment in if necessary.

And on that note, it will be necessary to get equipment in as my "garage project" was tied in with my wife's "back yard beautification project" which will include a new patio and pool deck (and the reason the Lista cabinets will have to wait). Still, it is a good trade off and we both enjoy the pool so it all works out in the end.

PAToyota, you're correct... South central PA here as well. Looks like you might not be too far away.

Regards,

Stan

 

[Rowdy Rat]

The first order of business was to address the electric service.

The house currently has 200 amp service and I was hoping to get the same for my garage. I had previously called the local electric company (as well as PA One Call – a service that co-ordinates marking the utility lines here in Pennsylvania) and they sent out one of their engineers to take a look at the building site and make an assessment.

What I found out wasn’t good. In order to get 400 amp service I would have to upgrade the line… Which meant running a new line from the transformer to the garage… Which was directly across the cul-de-sac… Which meant tearing up the cul-de-sac. I was guessing big money and probably some upset neighbors (not what I want to do). In addition, the current lines as marked would have to be moved to avoid being placed under the foundation of the garage AND they wanted the meter box moved to an area that was more accessible as the current meter would be completely fenced in after the “back yard beautification project” is completed.

I spent a week or so speaking with the electricians that would be working on the job and they felt that they could remap our current 200 amp box to give me 50 or 60 amps to a garage sub panel. Not exactly the solution I was hoping for. I called the engineer at the electric company again to see if there was any another solution to the problem. In the end we came up with a compromise. I would move the meter box and dig the new trench for electric service at my cost and they would let me run the 400 amp service that I wanted over the existing line (which apparently was sufficient). I’m no electrical whiz, but it makes me think that the all the lines in this area are sufficient to carry the load… The electric company just prefers not to do it if they can avoid it.

With that problem solved, it was time to bring in an excavator to dig the new service trench, move the existing service, and mount a temporary service box that would later be mounted to the garage. Everything should go smoothly now, right? Not quite…

I get a call from the electricians and excavator... They can’t locate the utility lines as marked (it looks to them like the electric line goes under the house). So they stop digging until we can find out what the story is. Another call to PA One Call. They tell me that they’ll have someone out within eight days. I tell them that they screwed up the first time and that I have a crew on site right now. Silence on the other end… “We’ll see what we can do.” It turns out they had someone marking a project right up the road and he was able to mark the site again. Cable and electric lines were off by 50 feet. Fortunately the digging was far enough away that the excavator didn’t hit them… Not quite so fortunate with the phone line though (which was also marked incorrectly).

So it looks like call to the telephone company is order.

After that, things seemed to go smoothly. The trench is dug, new line put in place, and a new panel (temporarily mounted) out by the garage site with the house panel soon to become a sub panel.

The last photo shows the remarked utility lines (flags) with the first marking attempt located right where the yellow caution tape is at. It's pretty obvious that the guy didn't even check and very lucky we weren't digging in the area where the lines were actually buried.

 

[Rowdy Rat]

More progress!

The trench for the footer was dug… Actual work on the garage for a change. I know that 40’ x 32’ isn’t small, but after seeing the footprint, I wish I could have made it bigger. It will suit my needs in the near future, but I’m not sure what I will do if I ever out grow it. If I had the room, I think that 60’ x 40’ would have been optimal, but considering that we wanted it to conform to the style of the housing development that we live in, it just wasn’t feasible.

The footer was reinforced with rebar and tied into the existing foundation. The general contractor doing the work appears to know his business. I’ve also seen some of his completed work and will be very pleased if my project turns out as well as his other efforts.

The electric service was hooked up to the new box by the garage and the current service was changed to a sub panel feeding from the garage. Considering that I will be working in the garage by myself most of the time, I doubt that I will ever be using enough electricity to tax a 200 amp panel. Still, I wanted to make sure that I had sufficient power for lights, a large compressor, welder, a/v equipment, lift, and anything else that I might want to install.

Speaking of lights, I really gave this one a lot of thought and I believe I even asked a few questions on this forum as well. I wanted something that appeared “clean” from a styling point of view, but they had to put out sufficient light (which was my primary consideration) and work with the 12’ ceiling height. I also wanted to use a recessed light if I could to avoid dust and dirt collecting on the light fixtures. The last thing that I want to be doing is dusting garage lights. I played with the lighting software that bmwpower used when designing his garage (thanks for posting that) which can be found at www.visuallightingsoftware.com. Very easy to use and if you choose to use a Lithonia product, it makes light selection a snap.

What I ended up choosing was twelve, six lamp T5HO fixtures (FGT 24). These fixtures are originally designed as troffers (to be used with drop ceilings), but a mounting kit is available to install them in a standard drywall ceiling. I went with fixtures that use two, three light ballasts and will wire them so that they are divided into two banks of six lights… Basically four switches, two switches per bank.

Regards,

Stan

 

[Rowdy Rat]

The masons are apparently ready to start on the foundation.

I took a walk over to the job site before heading to work and saw the sand and mixing equipment sitting there, but no sign of the masons.

Figured that I’d see a completed footer when I got home… I wasn’t disappointed.

While there wasn’t much done on the garage (outside of the footer), I did place the order for my lift. I decided to go with a Rotary SL210-RA with three stage arms based on a number of factors, but primarily because Rotary builds a really good lift and they have a service center located relatively close to where I live. I also contracted with them to install the lift figuring that they’ve put in more than a few of these lifts and probably have a good idea of what needs to be done to do it correctly. Definitely a bit more costly than a two post lift, but I’m trying to maximize space and the in ground lift definitely does that.

http://www.rotarylift.com/Products/...artLiftsr&CAT=Professional Automotive Service

It should make working on the cars a lot more enjoyable than it was in my old garage.

Regards,

Stan

 

[cyclopsblown34]

Very impressive, the two post rotary is even better than the standard consumer installed two post.

 

[Jpfreak33]

Very nice lift, I am excited to see it installed. I am guessing that will get installed before the pad is poured?

 

[Hardware]

Looks Great !

 

[thundercow]

Very cool, I am going to subscribe to see how this goes. The lift is incredible--the advantage of doing your own garage...

 

[Bevis]

subscribing to this one...looking forward to see how it plays out.

 

[Cebby]

Great build!

I am exploring this lift for my garage rebirth also. I will be interested to watch this prep and install.

Due to the multiuse nature of my garage/shop, I wanted to sink the mounting area of this lift down another few inches (thickness of the arms), so I could put a plate over the lift arms and have a smooth floor when the lift is not in use. Anyone know if this is even feasible?

 

[Rowdy Rat]

Very nice lift, I am excited to see it installed. I am guessing that will get installed before the pad is poured?

From what I gather in speaking with the Rotary rep and looking at the installation instructions, a hole is dug, a layer of stone placed at the bottom of the hole, the lift is installed, more stone about half way up, and then a concrete "collar" is poured to set the lift in place. The remaining concrete is poured when the garage floor is poured.

The Rotary rep told me that the installation procedure is pretty simple... About the only critical part is setting the lift grade correctly.

The lift issue (actually the lack of one) was one of the major shortcomings of my old garage. My previous house was a split level with the lower floors being my garage and shop. Ceiling was eight feet high and that was at the highest point. Hopefully, I'll be able to correct the negative qualities of my old garage and keep the good ones.

Regards,

Stan

 

[Rowdy Rat]

Great build!

Thanks! I appreciate all the comments that have been posted so far.

Due to the multiuse nature of my garage/shop, I wanted to sink the mounting area of this lift down another few inches (thickness of the arms), so I could put a plate over the lift arms and have a smooth floor when the lift is not in use. Anyone know if this is even feasible?

The problem that I see (and that I alluded to above) is the lift grade. Rotary wants the lift at the highest point in on the floor with the grade sloping away from the lift... The purpose being to keep water out of the lift containment tube. If you sink the arms, you have to sink the lift as well (at least with the Rotary design) which will put you below floor grade and open up the potential for water to drain into the containment tube.

Rotary is very specific about this in their installation instructions and is also very clear that failure to install the lift correctly will void the warranty. That's one of the reasons I'm paying Rotary to do the installation.

There may be other manufacturers that can accomplish what you wish to do, but I 'm not sure that the Rotary lift will.

Regards,

Stan

 

[Quiksilver]

Subscribing, looking good so far. Really want to see the lift install. Looking forward to the upcoming progress.

 

[Rowdy Rat]

A bit farther along…

The masons laid the block for the foundation. I watched them for a while… While I’m no expert, it looked like they were doing a very good job.

They had also talked to the Rotary rep to coordinate the lift installation and told me that they should be in a position to install it in a couple days so I’m pretty happy about that.

While not as exciting as the lift, I ordered the drain for my garage today. I wanted a heavy duty, high volume drain for washing cars inside as well as hosing down the garage floor when necessary. I had installed drains in my previous garage, but they did not flow sufficient water when I was washing the cars so I wanted something that work a lot better.

I had saved some information on a drain that Steve (Ultgar on this forum) had used on one of his projects. Not sure where Steve got his, but I was able to track down the manufacturer and ordered one from them. Really nice drain (designed for the cheese making industry I was told) with a 12” square footprint and a 10” diameter cover and is made from 304 stainless steel. It has a four inch outlet and a catch basket so nothing gets washed down the drain accidentally.

http://www.kuselequipment.com/newwebsite/kusel_keseries_floor_drains_specialduty.html

Regards,

Stan

 

[Rowdy Rat]

More foundation details taken care of.

Styrofoam insulation was installed along the block wall foundation. I considered using it under the slab as well (as JohnZ described when he built his house/garage), but I never really noticed the slab being cold in my last garage so I decided to pass on that option. Hopefully, I won’t regret this decision down the road.

The water lines were installed as well. I’ll have a cold water faucet at the front of the garage on the inside (between the two garage doors) for washing cars, cleaning the floor, and general use. I also installed hot and cold lines in the rear corner of the garage where I eventually plan to install a Lista sink cabinet and stainless steel sink similar to what Boost Addiction and bmwpower have done in their garages.

The big news was that excavator stopped out to tell me that lift would be installed in the next few days and wanted to map out exactly where I wanted it placed. I plan to use the area at the back of the garage as the shop area so I wanted to maximize the space there, but still leave myself room to move around the car. I finally settled on thirteen feet in from the garage door. Most of the cars that I work on are about sixteen feet long so that gives me about five feet on the front, back, and either side to work while keeping the back area free for the cabinets I plan to install in the future.

The white rectangle painted on the dirt is where the hole will be dug.

Regards,

Stan

 

[Rowdy Rat]

I headed over to the garage this morning before going to work… Just to check up on things and get a status report. The excavator was already busy digging out the pit that will house the lift. The pit needs to be ten feet deep per the installation instructions and I was keeping my fingers crossed that we wouldn’t hit rock (we have a lot in our area). The excavator informed me that sure enough, we had hit rock, but it was at the very end of the pit and he was able to break through what was there… Lucky break (we weren’t quite so lucky when we put the pool in).

You can actually see the rock in the corner of the hole (right side) in the second photo.

Just about the time I’m ready to head out, the lift installer pulls up with the lift.

We went over where I wanted the control box located so that he could run the conduit over to that location.

Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to stay and watch the lift installation, but from what I was told it was pretty simple… Some stone for the base, set the lift in place with the backhoe, some additional stone fill on the sides, and finally a concrete collar poured to secure the lift in place.

When I returned home, the lift was installed and held in place with concrete blocks and railroad ties to set the correct grade for the lift. Not exactly high tech, but I guess it does the job. I did spend some time cleaning off the stray concrete that managed to get on the cover, but there really wasn’t that much and what was there came off rather easily.

The conduit was run to the wall where the control box will be.

The remainder of the lift installation will take place after the electric service is moved from the temporary pole to the garage (after the siding has been installed) and the compressor and air line installed.

Speaking of air line, is anyone familiar with these guys?

http://www.pattonsaircompressors.com/piping.htm

I’m thinking of going this route for my air lines and would love to hear from someone who has lived with this or a similar system.

Regards,

Stan

 

[Bevis]

sweet...I would've had to call in late for work.

 

[Rowdy Rat]

It took a bit longer than I thought it would to get to this point, but it’s finally getting close to pouring the slab.

The plumbers were out first to pressure check the lines as well as install the drain and pipe. The drain outlet is 4” diameter Schedule 40 that drains to daylight… I shouldn’t have any problem getting rid of water inside the garage. The drain itself is definitely heavy duty and should hold up very well to vehicle traffic. I haven’t decided whether to epoxy it with the rest of the floor or leave it natural stainless steel, but I don’t have to decide right away… There will be plenty of time before I can finish the floor. Several loads of stone were brought in for the base and compacted.

The contractor was out to put down the vapor barrier and wire mesh. The vapor barrier is 15 mils thick which again is probably overkill, but it was available. I had also inquired about actually using rebar instead of the mesh, but the contractor talked me out of that one. Hopefully, I won’t come to regret that.

The second photo shows some of the progress on the “back yard beautification project” as well. Just about all of the trees and shrubs that were growing next to the house have been removed to make way for the new deck.

As for the garage, it looks like the slab will be poured soon…

Regards,

Stan

 

[Rowdy Rat]

sweet...I would've had to call in late for work.

I almost did!

Regards,

Stan

 

[lawfarm]

Hmmm...what's that smell? Spam?

 

[bmwpower]

subscribed.....
Man, that inground lift should be cool.

 

[Matti]

Great looking project. I think you spent a couple of more bucks than I did. It's interesting to see the difference in the concrete construction methods between our southern neighbors and us Canadians.

I just recently sorted out the whole electrical service issue and learned a few things. I certainly needed a much smaller service than I first thought. The electrical authorities realize that residential garages usually have only one worker so the service should consider the highest load piece of equipment and the balance of the lights and outlets. It's unlikely you would need to run the lift, a welder, the compressor and numerous outlets and all the lights at once. I'm getting away with 100 amp service total including 60 amp service in the garage. If I had to build a new house I would go 150 amp total. If you price out the wire for 200 amp service it is very expensive although that may not be an issue for you. Good luck with the project!

 

[Rowdy Rat]

bmwpower,

I've been able to pick up some great ideas from quite a few people on this forum (one of the reasons I find it so useful), but I really appreciate you posting your build in such detail as it has been very helpful in assisting me with my own garage build. The Visual Lighting software in particular was a huge help as I really had no clue about designing the lighting system for the garage.

I'll probably end up borrowing a few other ideas from you (and others) before this project is complete.

Thanks again for sharing your build because it has certianly helped me with mine.

Regards,

Stan

 

[Rowdy Rat]

Matti,

Thanks for the comments!

I actually went through the same thought process on my service as you did with yours. The electricians working on the job felt that 60 amps to the garage would be sufficient as I would typically be the only one working there.

The problem occurred with the house service. We had pretty much maxed out our 200 amp house service already and with me, my wife, and three kids in the house, remapping the service to give me 60 amps to the garage was really going to put a strain on the house service. Add to that, the electric company wanted the service box moved so that they could read the meter once our back yard was fenced in. The solution that we finally agreed on was a much better choice for my situation.

Regards,

Stan

 

[Rowdy Rat]

Well, the slab is finally poured!

I arrived home to find that the masons had been there to finish the slab… Looks pretty good! I still wish that I could have gone with a bigger garage, but we were already at the limit of our lot coverage at 40’ x 32’ so I guess that this will have to do.

Construction should move more quickly now. It won’t be too soon for me… I’ve got cars and equipment spread out at various locations and storage facilities around the county. It will be nice to get everything under one roof again.

Regards,

Stan

 

[ponjohn]

You're luck to have a drain, I do believe they do not approve in the floor drains here anymore.

I really like the lift. Much nicer than an above grnd 2-post.

John

 

[RyanGMW]

Nice project! I wish I did an in-ground lift in my shop, but the county would never allow it so I had to wait to install 2 above ground 2-post lifts instead.
I hear you about the size, I thought my 40x60 would be HUGE and I would have all this extra space... but I am already trying to figure out building a storage rack for my cars to sit in on top of eachother... I built the max for my lot too, so there is nothing I can do about it. 2 acres=2400sqft of accessory building. Damn.

 

[Rowdy Rat]

Finally able to start on the actual structure!

The walls were assembled and placed into position… Just a three man crew so it was a bit of an effort to get them up.

The ceiling height is going to be great, but I still wish that I could have made the footprint a bit bigger (we were at the limit of our lot coverage allowance). If I can offer any advice to future garage builders, build it as big as you can.

Looks good with all four walls up!

Regards,

Stan

 

[hardtop]

Looks good

 

[Rowdy Rat]

Well, I was on vacation for a week… When I returned home, it was pretty obvious quite a bit of progress had been made. The rest of the sheeting was installed on the walls and the roof was finished. The GC told me that the trusses were delivered right after we left and they spent a couple days getting them installed and sheeted. The shingles took another day… They did a great job of matching them to the shingles on the current house. All in all, it looks pretty good.

While the exterior is shaping up, the interior still has a way to go… HVAC ducting, electric service lines, air lines, A/V lines, insulation, etc. The job should be much easier with the walls open though.

I’ve decided to go with Wayne Dalton garage doors (insulated steel with an R value near 15). Wayne Dalton has a pretty good reputation and was able to offer some additional items that I wanted as well (white hardware and tracks).

http://www.wayne-dalton.com/searchdetail.asp?id=35&type=prod

I debated going with a fancier door with windows and what not, but in the end what I wanted most was maximum insulation… So that’s what I went with. The 5200 series is actually an industrial door, but it still looks pretty attractive for my taste.

I also decided to go with Liftmaster 3800 series openers as I wanted to keep the ceiling as open as possible and I’ve heard good things about the Liftmaster openers as well.

http://www.liftmaster.com/consumerweb/pages/productmodeldetail.aspx?modelId=834

Regards,

Stan

 

[autoist]

How are you gonna get into that angled passageway to the house?

 

[Mossberg]

How are you gonna get into that angled passageway to the house?

I was thinking the same thing. I would hope the studs would be cut out to allow a doorway.

 

[PAToyota]

If you look at the original plan drawing, that is a separate storage room - no connecting doors between the house and garage.

 

[Rowdy Rat]

If you look at the original plan drawing, that is a separate storage room - no connecting doors between the house and garage.

That's it exactly.

The "real" original plan was actually along the lines of utah997's "Bunker Garage," but cost became an issue and we finally decided on a detached garage... At least until we discovered that the local ordinance required that any detached structure be less than 15' high (tough to pull off aesthetically with a 12' ceiling).

In the end, we decided to connect the house and garage which allowed us to solve a few problems in the process. First, it allowed me to get around the height issue; by connecting the garage to the house, I could go as high as the highest point on the current structure. Second, it gave me a storage room which allowed me to move my compressor out of the garage cutting down the noise and opening up much needed floor space.

I really didn't want a connection between the house and the garage anyway. It's much easier to keep track of who goes in the garage when there is only one man door and I have the key.

Regards,

Stan

 

[autoist]

So, you're gonna have to walk all the way around the garage in the snow or rain when you want to go from breakfast on Saturday morning into it to work on your project?

Heck, your coffee will be cold by the time you get in the garage!!

 

[sstruckguy]

Nicely done Rowdy Rat. I just finished being involved with the building of a new Toyota dealership. We installed 12 of the inground lifts, complete with vegetable oil.(the green thing)

They are worth their weight in space savings for sure. In the dealership experience, the door dings alone will pay for the cost difference. Not to mention looks and being very VERY practical.

If you thought that much ahead, I'm anxious to see the finished product.