Backfeeding a Generator to Your House

[nissan_crawler]

This, right here, is EXACTLY my point! Dryer outlet/ghetto hookup CAN be safe, but why risk it? God forbid you get injured or killed and someone else has to turn off your generator there is a chance of a lineman, or several, being killed. Doing it "right" is not that expensive.


Bottom line is, if you can't afford a $200 transfer switch, you probably shouldn't have bought a generator and a home in the first place.

I tried, city said no. Now what? Of course, that was a few years back, I should check again. the only way I can install one is if my generator will power the whole house at once, otherwise I have to pick a few circuits, which does me absolutely no good.

Here we go again!

"As you pointed out, running through a transfer switch is still backfeeding, it just ensures that the main is disconnected - which is a good thing".

Not even close - it's an "alternate feed", not a "backfeed".

As to the rest:

He meant in regards to the main breaker and people saying that just throwing the main isn't safe enough to prevent backfeeding the line, when that's exactly what the interlock kit does.

 

[Burtonrider10022]

I tried, city said no. Now what? Of course, that was a few years back, I should check again. the only way I can install one is if my generator will power the whole house at once, otherwise I have to pick a few circuits, which does me absolutely no good.

You win, I'm stumped


What was their reasoning?

 

[Alchymist]

I tried, city said no. Now what? Of course, that was a few years back, I should check again. the only way I can install one is if my generator will power the whole house at once, otherwise I have to pick a few circuits, which does me absolutely no good.

You win, I'm stumped

What was their reasoning?

Don't quote me on this, but I think it runs something like this: IF you have an automatic transfer switch the genset must be capable of supplying the whole house load. This is because there may be no one around when the power fails, and if the genset can't power the whole house, it can be overloaded.

With a manual transfer switch and separated circuits unnecessary loads are locked out before the genset powers the loads, and since you have to be present to flip the transfer switch, you can pick and choose circuits so as not to overload the genset. Not sure, but I think this came about with the latest NEC update.

Then again, the idea of emergency power is to power necessary circuits - furnace, refrig, freezer, water, a few lights, etc. Easily doable with a smaller generator. Whole house is a "luxury" type thing. Keeps the air conditioning on, all the lights, TV, etc.

 

[Burtonrider10022]

Just need to make a custom, larger interlock kit then. have it go all the way down the panel and if any of the large/unnecessary breakers are on it will not let the generator IN breaker be closed.

 

[Alchymist]

Just need to make a custom, larger interlock kit then. have it go all the way down the panel and if any of the large/unnecessary breakers are on it will not let the generator IN breaker be closed.

And then apply for NEC approval!

 

[Burtonrider10022]

And then apply for NEC approval!

minor technicality

 

[shovelhead91701]

That's what I was thinking.

10 gauge is rated to 30 amps, not 15.

Look it up in the NEC code book.......... He was utilizing the cable for a transmission line subject to higher draw. The 30 amp rating is for single source power supply such as feeding a dryer or AC unit that will normally have a much lower load draw at run cycles but may climb higher during startup etc. Also the distance he talked about running it (he didn't say how far just that it was quite a ways away from the house for noise) would have caused voltage drops as well.

 

[kywildcat]

Here is what I have decided on to backfeed my place when the power goes out: http://www.generlink.com/about_generlink.cfm

My electric company sells them for $715.00 including surge power protection. Installation is Free, and if I move I can take it with me. After lots of reading and research, this is by far the least expensive way to do it RIGHT. It may not be for everybody, but I think it's the way to go. I know I will have flip the breakers I want on, and keep up with what I'm using so not to overload generator. When the generator is plugged in and started, it automaticley kills the power back to the power grid. It is insuranced approved as well.

 

[foolishpride]

Look it up in the NEC code book.......... He was utilizing the cable for a transmission line subject to higher draw. The 30 amp rating is for single source power supply such as feeding a dryer or AC unit that will normally have a much lower load draw at run cycles but may climb higher during startup etc. Also the distance he talked about running it (he didn't say how far just that it was quite a ways away from the house for noise) would have caused voltage drops as well.

Transmission Line? Transmission lines are usually of the 345,000 Volt, and 500,000 Volt variety. Think Power Plant to Substation. These are Transmission Lines.

 

[nehog]

Don't quote me on this, but I think it runs something like this: IF you have an automatic transfer switch the genset must be capable of supplying the whole house load. This is because there may be no one around when the power fails, and if the genset can't power the whole house, it can be overloaded...

That assumes the generator is automatic startup, too. If both are true, then yes, the generator must be big enough to power the entire house load...

 

[maxspeed96ct]

I backfeed mine , Just make sure the main braker is off. I also turn off all of my other unessasary breakers .

 

[Alchymist]

That assumes the generator is automatic startup, too. If both are true, then yes, the generator must be big enough to power the entire house load...

Good point, though I haven't seen any automatic transfer switches installed where the genset wasn't autostart. Kind of defeats the purpose. The genset starting is what actuates the transfer......

 

[Alchymist]

I backfeed mine , Just make sure the main braker is off. I also turn off all of my other unessasary breakers .

Better you than me.......

 

[Thruxton]

That assumes the generator is automatic startup, too. If both are true, then yes, the generator must be big enough to power the entire house load...

I don't think this is correct. My automatic transfer switch for my Generac, which is auto start on power loss from the grid, transfers gen power only to selected loads, not to the whole main panel. I am sure I haven't described this correctly but I would be glad to cut and paste from the docs to explain it. Actually it is such a common installation I think you will know what I am talking about.

 

[RCStocker]

So my uncles friends brother took a shop class once at a community college, and he said that you can just plug your generater in yer house and fire 'er up and it'll work just fine. Why hasn't anyone here thought of this, it seems like a great, cost-saving way to power yer home or trailer!



Here's write up of his set up: Generater Back feedin' Setter Upper

I posted that the other day. I have been pulling the main and pluging the generator into an outlet and runing power for 35 years. I finaly hooked up a sub pannel with a breaker and through switch to the houes current. It works great. Now I have huge generators that switch automaticly.

 

[Burtonrider10022]

I posted that the other day. I have been pulling the main and pluging the generator into an outlet and runing power for 35 years. I finaly hooked up a sub pannel with a breaker and through switch to the houes current. It works great. Now I have huge generators that switch automaticly.

Didja click the link?

 

[Alchymist]

I don't think this is correct. My automatic transfer switch for my Generac, which is auto start on power loss from the grid, transfers gen power only to selected loads, not to the whole main panel. I am sure I haven't described this correctly but I would be glad to cut and paste from the docs to explain it. Actually it is such a common installation I think you will know what I am talking about.

You most likely have a sub panel that has the critical loads wired there. The loads on the sub panel are considered the "house" load.The rule still applies - generator must be big enough to power all the loads in the sub panel simultaneously. Not sure if that setup is accepted under the new code in all locations. And not all auto start systems are set up this way. Mostly applies to powering the main panel.

 

[Alchymist]

I posted that the other day. I have been pulling the main and pluging the generator into an outlet and runing power for 35 years. I finaly hooked up a sub pannel with a breaker and through switch to the houes current. It works great. Now I have huge generators that switch automaticly.

People have been playing Russian Roulette for centuries, and not all of them died, either.

 

[nehog]

Good point, though I haven't seen any automatic transfer switches installed where the genset wasn't autostart. Kind of defeats the purpose. The genset starting is what actuates the transfer......

I've seen them, but not common. Usually done just to eliminate one step in the process. For example, the automatic transfer switch I plan to install to replace my manual setup that I have now can optionally start the generator or not--minor configuration change. (My generator will never be automatic startup either, way too many modifications would be needed to make that happen.)

 

[Munchies]

Interlocks are sold and installed by the power company here. Must be real terrible. Run most of my house through a nema 14-60 set run to a box on the wall outside. It was that or pin and sleeve... P&s is expensive!

 

[justanengineer]

Backfeeding usually sounds like a great idea to those who have never been shocked by a bad breaker...sorry, even in time of emergency I wouldnt risk killing someone else in or near the house by doing so.

The transfer switch at my parents house was installed 25 years ago and is a glorified oversized rotary switch...no electronics, no automatic bs to fail, and nothing remotely resembling cheap household breakers. Call me crazy, but I prefer to crank my car windows too.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I post this article every so often, I guess it's time to post it again: http://ne.mara.net/generator/pm_gen_install.pdf It's from a Popular Mechanics magazine a few years ago, and shows the step by step process for properly installing a transfer switch and subpanel for use with a generator.

 

[kywildcat]

Just got this installed and tested yesterday by my electric company. So easy to use, prevents back feeds to the grid, and is a whole house surge protector.

Sorry I cant figure out why computer is posting pics wrong.....I'm working on it!!!

 

[Stuart in MN]

Sorry I cant figure out why computer is posting pics wrong.....I'm working on it!!!

When you edit a photo and then save it on your computer, look for a check box that says something like "use Exif orientation tag" on the save window - if you see one, uncheck the box.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Just got this installed and tested yesterday by my electric company. So easy to use, prevents back feeds to the grid, and is a whole house surge protector.

Sorry I cant figure out why computer is posting pics wrong.....I'm working on it!!!

I've seen something about these before, and thought "gee, thats a good way to do it" but forgot about it and now I have a generator and am planning a hookup. Looking at a in-plug for the house (Reliance $50) then a breaker interlock for the Square D panel ($73 from Ebay, best $ I can find) and then wire and conduit to run under the screened in porch to the house and under the house to reach the panel. Easily looking at $150 to $200 and quite a bit of work..

Edit: I scrolled back up and spotted your post where you said the POCO sold it for $715........ way too rich for my blood, guess I'll have to buy the Reliance input plug and interlock for the breaker panel and do all the work afterall.

You left out the most important thing, COST. HOW MUCH DID THIS COST YOU???

GenerLink cleverly omits that little tidbit of info from their web site. I would gladly pay $250 or so to save the hassle of having to buy and install all the pieces to achieve the same effect.

Charles

 

[kywildcat]

You wont like the cost then....it was 750.00 installed, included a 60' cord. One of the best features is that is has a surge protector from the generator and grid. Works like a charm, and is insurance approved too.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Yes, I just edited my post, found your previous one. Apparently they make them with and without the surge protector, but I'll bet it makes little difference in the price.

Charles

 

[mobiledynamics]

Couple of questions Kywildcat. That is a propieatary cord.....so I presume you either have a L14-30 or a C-50 Amp locking on the other end ?


Second, how secure is the thing on your meter.
I was looking at some videos and it seemed to have some *wobble* in it.

 

[kywildcat]

The one without the surge protection is about 85 bucks cheaper (I think).
It is L14-30 cord, and it secures fine in the meter with a lock ring. It will not hook up unless the lock ring engages to the meter. You have to pull the ring down to disconnect.

To me the convenience of hooking it up, and the surge protection makes it a very good deal. Just my opinion.

Also no inspection needed as it installed by the local electric company!

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Just got this installed and tested yesterday by my electric company. So easy to use, prevents back feeds to the grid, and is a whole house surge protector.

Sorry I cant figure out why computer is posting pics wrong.....I'm working on it!!!

What is it called?

 

[kywildcat]

Generlink

 

[Charles (in GA)]

http://www.generlink.com/about_generlink.cfm

 

[Burtonrider10022]

Holy ****, they want $699 + $16.84 shipping for a 30 amp GenerLink on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001SOIXQ0/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Highbeam]

I bought the generator inlet male plug for my house, not a generlink, from home depot and it was not expensive. Just a metal box with 30 amp twistlock plug. Then use an interlock at the panel.

 

[Mike007]

I was without power for 8 days due to Sandy. While I now plan to install a transfer switch, after Sandy I did connect directly into a breaker in my panel. I physically removed my main breaker. Reason being I once came across a main breaker that still had one leg "on" when the breaker was was turned off. I believe it was a Federal Pacific.

My electrician was connecting generators for a lot of people without transfer switches. He removes the meter and replaces it with some kind of blank-off plate. The generator cord passes through a notch in the blank off plate and ties into the panel. It basically makes it impossible to back-feed or turn the power back on with the generator hooked up. When power comes back on he returns and restores it back to normal.

 

[ishiboo]

Not for me since I picked up the Square D interlock kit for $15 at Lowes and I like more flexibility, but Generlink is a clever idea!

Since it is installed prior to the meter, I am thinking that if the meter can is not grounded to the main panel via a ground wire, it would still be an acceptable install?


I am cheap but if you add it up, $750 installed is not a bad price at all. Having a surge suppressor installed has to be at least $200. A 60' 10-4 generator cord is at least $100. $400 for installing an interlock, running the wire and installing an outlet seems reasonable. So this gives you a clean install for a fair price I think.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I bought the generator inlet male plug for my house, not a generlink, from home depot and it was not expensive. Just a metal box with 30 amp twistlock plug. Then use an interlock at the panel.

I just today bought that Reliance entrance box with the L14-30P recessed into it. Lowes was more expensive ($51.30 vs $49.97) so it was a no brainer, went to LOWES and made them do the price match and took another 10% off. I walked out with the box (including tax) cheaper than the shelf price at HD.

I ain't paying $700 for the GenerLink, plus I'm in GA so I'd have to pay 7% tax on that too.

Charles

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I am cheap but if you add it up, $750 installed is not a bad price at all. Having a surge suppressor installed has to be at least $200.

The $700 one is the -N version meaning NO Surge suppression. The -S model has the surge suppression, and I'm sure it costs MORE.

The reality is, you are better off with a separate surge suppressor. If this one blows, you have to have the POCO or a POCO approved electrician come out and pull the meter to get it out, and send it back for repairs, all the while you are without the generator connection, and no telling how much they charge to replace the surge suppression components, plus shipping both ways for a 6 lb object insured.

You can get some good whole house built in surge suppressors, that, while you may need to pay an electrician to pull and install them, shouldn't have to deal with the POCO (if you have a disconnect before them) and you won't be without the genny connection while you are replacing it or having it rebuilt.

Charles

 

[mobiledynamics]

still waiting for kywild to reply on how much SLOP there is. Not sure if anybody else actually looked at the video, but when I looked at it months ago, there seemed to be too much play/slop for my comfort factor. I would prefer the entire *meter housing* from back to front to be 100% ridgid.

In the video, it looked like it had a 'lil play in it

 

[kywildcat]

Well I went out just now and grabbed on to it. You can move it some, but not really "slop". Id say if you walked into, you would be on the ground and it would still be hooked to the house, if that's what you mean.