Panel in Attic Space

[Spudland_Dave]

Is it permissible to install a breaker box in an attic space?
Was insulating my shop last night and the thought had struck me...probably no better way to get the panel centered in the building above my work area and allow for maxmimum wire savings.

When I say attic space I mean, it will be "finished" to a degree... I'd put the panel facing the interior. I dont think it will be heated up there, maybe some insulation to keep the temps relatively regulated and some wall sheathing..but nothing special.

 

[madosta]

I wouldn't want to do that.

Just run the wire back to a main panel area or another sub panel.

What are you going to do if you can't reach it when you accidentally need to throw the breaker?

 

[Spudland_Dave]

I wouldn't want to do that.

Just run the wire back to a main panel area or another sub panel.

What are you going to do if you can't reach it when you accidentally need to throw the breaker?

Run up the stairs and flip the breaker...there is a 12'w x 50'l "Bonus" room over my garage...it will have a full stairwell to go upstairs and be used to store Christmas dectorations and other thing. I wont be sheetrocking it, but I do plan on sheathing the room with 7/16 OSB, etc..

 

[madosta]

Run up the stairs and flip the breaker...there is a 12'w x 50'l "Bonus" room over my garage...it will have a full stairwell to go upstairs and be used to store Christmas dectorations and other thing. I wont be sheetrocking it, but I do plan on sheathing the room with 7/16 OSB, etc..

Oh oh... my mind isn't right this morning. I made the assumption that you were installing it in the ceiling with the breaker handles facing the floor.... my apologies as I'm a bit sleepy still. lol

 

[rockwithjason]

as long as you maintain the working space and head room requirements i don't see anything obviously wrong with it.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Required working space for panels.

 

[Kevin54]

I'm no electrician, but I don't think you would be permitted to do that unless you had some sort of outside disconnect switch. The only reason I say that was years back I had a basement put under my house and the breaker box upgraded to 200 amp. The code was at that time, if the breaker box was more than 12' away from the meter, an external watertight box with a disconnect had to be installed between the meter and the breaker panel. This was so that in case of fire, the electricity could be killed to the house. That's just my $.02 on it , but I don't think it would be permissible in an attic space.

Just curious though, how much wire would you save in doing that?

 

[Spudland_Dave]

I'm no electrician, but I don't think you would be permitted to do that unless you had some sort of outside disconnect switch. The only reason I say that was years back I had a basement put under my house and the breaker box upgraded to 200 amp. The code was at that time, if the breaker box was more than 12' away from the meter, an external watertight box with a disconnect had to be installed between the meter and the breaker panel. This was so that in case of fire, the electricity could be killed to the house. That's just my $.02 on it , but I don't think it would be permissible in an attic space.

Just curious though, how much wire would you save in doing that?

Hmm... Well this will be a Sub-Panel OFF of a Sub-Panel.

How much wire...I think plenty...and its not just the small stuff. The Garage panel (100A) is in the front corner of my 30x50 Garage...in the "Car Parking Area". The rear area is where my work area is, and thus, my Welder, Compressor, and other larger 220v tools, and a 3 or so circuits of 12-2 for 110V 20A. its gonna take 50' of wire minimum just to get back there (come up wall, across trusses, back down wherever...maybe more if I gotta go to the far corner, so for just the 2 220v30A circuits i'd be "Wasting" 100' of 10ga wire just to get back there, add at least 2 runs of 6-2 for welder/plasma, etc... so right there is quite a few bucks in wire.

Cheaper to buy one string of 6ga wire (scored 75' of it for free) and a panel then to run a multitude of wire back there.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Overcurrent protection (ie. circuit breaker panels) must be readily accessible per NEC 240.24(A)

240.24 Location in or on Premises.
(A) Accessibility. Overcurrent devices shall be readily accessible
and shall be installed so that the center of the grip
of the operating handle of the switch or circuit breaker,
when in its highest position, is not more than 2.0 m (6 ft
7 in.) above the floor or working platform, unless one of the
following applies:
(1) For busways, as provided in 368.17(C).
(2) For supplementary overcurrent protection, as described
in 240.10.
(3) For overcurrent devices, as described in 225.40 and
230.92.
(4) For overcurrent devices adjacent to utilization equipment
that they supply, access shall be permitted to be
by portable means.

For the definition of "readily accessible" look at article 100 of the code.

Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible). Capable of being
reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections
without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite
to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable
ladders, and so forth.

Thus the access to the attic would need to be permanent and you would need a floor or "work platform" at the panel. In addition, you would need to provide suitable permanent lighting for the panel area.

Charles

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Thus the access to the attic would need to be permanent and you would need a floor or "work platform" at the panel. In addition, you would need to provide suitable permanent lighting for the panel area.

Charles

Yup, the 3/4" Advantech Flooring is already installed, and hopefully during my week of Vacation in Dec I will build the stairwell...normal stairs for lack of better terms. Its a full size room up there...12' wide, 8' high, 50' long.

 

[hidollartoys]

You are fine Dave. No different than basement location.

 

[Speedy Petey]

You are fine Dave. No different than basement location.

Exactly.

If it were a scuttle hole needing a ladder it would not be OK. WIth stairs you are FINE.

I do this often with big Victorians and Colonials. People renovate the upstairs and the main panel is 100' away in a basement. Sub in the attic and home runs are nice and short, saving labor and material, and in the end saving the customer money.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

You are fine Dave. No different than basement location.

Originally thats what I was thinking as well, in terms of physical location. What I was thinking more about were the extremes of temprature...in winter it could be -30 up there, summer time could be 120...

Truth be told, none of my panels have ended up "where I wanted them" for various reasons. Originally I wanted my electric panel in the middle of the shop, but that would have necessitated me building my stairwell asap, which isnt even close to being started..LOL. So I comprimised and went out in the front with the panel so I could have power sooner rather then late.
THEN when posting here about cable trays to get wire to the back of the shop neatly, someone made the suggestion to use a sub in the back workshop area. Again...excellent idea, and I was thinking of installing it in my stairwell like originally planned. Still no stairwell, and I would like to start stringing wire for lights/recept/compressor etc.. out in my work area. Rather not put it on a wall right now because who knows where I end up putting whatever tools and cabinets I get. Upstairs is framed (minus stairwell right now) but I could at least string wire.

Here is where a professional builder/GC knows what he's doing, in sequencing events. I wasnt planning on sheetrock this year at all, but I came across 32 sheets of 54" x 12' sheets for 3.00 a sheet..couldnt say no....so now i want that pile gone because its in the way.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

....I wasnt planning on sheetrock this year at all, but I came across 32 sheets of 54" x 12' sheets for 3.00 a sheet..couldn't say no....so now i want that pile gone because its in the way.

Just make sure the sheetrock isn't that cheap *** Chinese sh*t that off gases and corrodes wire!

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Just make sure the sheetrock isn't that cheap *** Chinese sh*t that off gases and corrodes wire!

There are houses in Florida that they ended up completely gutting out and replacing all of the wiring and plumbing and then re-sheetrocking the inside, to cure the problems. It is nasty. If it isn't made in the US or Canada, you don't want it.

Charles

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Do not install the panel in the stairway, it needs to be in an area where the floor is flat for the complete working space shown in the pics I posted above. You would not pass inspection if it were mounted on a stairway. Also NEC 110.26 is fairly extensive regarding working space and the 2011 code differs from the pics above in that the 6½ ft (2.0 meter) height is mandatory in new construction.

Charles

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Just make sure the sheetrock isn't that cheap *** Chinese sh*t that off gases and corrodes wire!

I've heard about that...thus far all my sheetrock has been Canadian made ProRoc. Good stuff

Do not install the panel in the stairway, it needs to be in an area where the floor is flat for the complete working space shown in the pics I posted above. You would not pass inspection if it were mounted on a stairway. Also NEC 110.26 is fairly extensive regarding working space and the 2011 code differs from the pics above in that the 6½ ft (2.0 meter) height is mandatory in new construction.

Charles

Nope, it will be on the flat..probably behind the door (wont be able to put boxes there anyways, perfect place for my panel) the stairwell isnt even built yet, and this way here I can at least run wires ahead of time.