Tapping into an old gas line.

[87handmedown]

My propane tank sits about 15 yards from my detached garage and I'm wanting to tap into the line that currently goes to my house and run another line to the garage so I can have heat in there. The current setup appears to be original to the house (1950/1951 build) and is made out of black pipe. What all is involved in such an undertaking? How deep does the new line have to be? Have any of you done something like this? I've never messed with gas lines before but I'm fantastic at following direction if someone can tell me what to do. The propane company has said that they'll come out and test the whole setup for leaks before I bury it once I'm done.

 

[king nero]

veeeeery carefully... and no smoking!

J/K... can you put a T-piece somewhere (after closing all necessary valves) and start up from that T-piece?

If not, a "saddle" might be of use, something you bolt on, drill through and start from there.

 

[SVIPD]

I would use a tapping saddle, you can get them from Ferguson or Northern Water Works.
Relatively easy to use and will get the job done properly.

 

[koditten]

Most likely you have soft flexable copper line from the propane "pig".

Put a compression fitting "t" in the line near the tank with a valve. You can now turn your tank valve back on and light the appliance pilots in the house.

Run a new line to the garage. You are going to need another secondary regulator going into the shop. Your propane company has these.

After you have everything plumbed up, have the propane company come out and test the fittings. Once you are leak free and have the ok from the propane guys, you are good to go.

The copper line does not have to be very deep. I'm sure you county/state has a code to follow, but most just put the line down 8-10 inches, if that.

As i said, most townships have a code to follow and require an inspection, but I have never seen a propane company rat you out. They want to sell you propane.

 

[Tim The Tool Man]

Put a compression fitting "t" in the line near the tank with a valve. You can now turn your tank valve back on and light the appliance pilots in the house.

No, no, you cannot use compression fittings with propane. If it turns out to be buried copper, you can splice into it but use FLARE fittings.

If it is old buried iron pipe, you might be better off asking your propane company to do the work. Iron buried since the 50's, I wouldn't want to mess with that. Have them update your lines with modern fittings and pipe.

 

[CNGsaves]

Given the fact that original line is REAL OLD since it's black pipe underground since 1951 . . . . that's 60 years! . . . . I'd look at re-doing the main run to house at same time as side run over to garage. Propane company doesn't care if line is rusted out and you keep paying for propane to leak out!

My research on what KS & OK gas companies require for current installs, is that they ONLY use buried yellow plastic polyethlene pipe, at least 18 inches underground. Call Groebner & Associates in Kansas City area (4949 Hadley St, Shawnee, KS) as they are fabulous low cost wholesaler of supplies that you will need - - (913)384-1510. Plastic pipe is only 55 cents a foot and then you'll need risers at each end (these transition from underground plastic to steel above ground - - then go black steel pipe from there once above ground) - - also will need to put in Tracer wire in trench next to all yellow plastic pipe so that future "Locate" can be done by Dig-Safe. 1" risers are $40 and the Stablock connector is $27 that connects yellow plastic from riser to buried yellow plastic pipe (this works like SharkBites for plumbing, but you only get one chance to connect for O-ring to work). Chamfer tool to prepare the yellow plastic pipe for the Stablock is $30 and you'll also want lockable shutoffs $38 at top of each riser. You'll T off the main supply coming out of propane tank then down to each riser serving each underground run to respective building.

If you do all the digging, I'm guessing that total cost will be under $400 depending on distance from propane tank to house. For me, I got all supplies for detached garage underground 1" yellow plastic pipe of 25 feet and only $192 and I'll do the digging!

Remember to call Dig-Safe first to mark all your potential conflicts of other buried underground runs, before you start your digging. Not sure protocol for old run to house but I would dig it out and destroy when you put in new underground yellow plastic run. Good luck!

 

[87handmedown]

Given the fact that original line is REAL OLD since it's black pipe underground since 1951 . . . . that's 60 years! . . . . I'd look at re-doing the main run to house at same time as side run over to garage. Propane company doesn't care if line is rusted out and you keep paying for propane to leak out!

My research on what KS & OK gas companies require for current installs, is that they ONLY use buried yellow plastic polyethlene pipe, at least 18 inches underground. Call Groebner & Associates in Kansas City area (4949 Hadley St, Shawnee, KS) as they are fabulous low cost wholesaler of supplies that you will need - - (913)384-1510. Plastic pipe is only 55 cents a foot and then you'll need risers at each end (these transition from underground plastic to steel above ground - - then go black steel pipe from there once above ground) - - also will need to put in Tracer wire in trench next to all yellow plastic pipe so that future "Locate" can be done by Dig-Safe. 1" risers are $40 and the Stablock connector is $27 that connects yellow plastic from riser to buried yellow plastic pipe (this works like SharkBites for plumbing, but you only get one chance to connect for O-ring to work). Chamfer tool to prepare the yellow plastic pipe for the Stablock is $30 and you'll also want lockable shutoffs $38 at top of each riser. You'll T off the main supply coming out of propane tank then down to each riser serving each underground run to respective building.

If you do all the digging, I'm guessing that total cost will be under $400 depending on distance from propane tank to house. For me, I got all supplies for detached garage underground 1" yellow plastic pipe of 25 feet and only $192 and I'll do the digging!

Remember to call Dig-Safe first to mark all your potential conflicts of other buried underground runs, before you start your digging. Not sure protocol for old run to house but I would dig it out and destroy when you put in new underground yellow plastic run. Good luck!

I just got off the phone with the propane company after they came out to my house to look everything over. They are a local company who really do care about their customers. They said a lot of what you already have, about possible leaks, 60+ year old pipe ect. Plus, they will only charge me $200 to trench, splice and install the new line, and hook up to the garage. But now we're looking at just redoing the whole system sometime this week while we've got great weather. It's not worth my time to try and do it myself at that kind of a price.

I will have to run some black pipe inside though where the heater will go, not a big deal.

EDIT: Just got off the phone with the propane company. The guy said right at $600 for everything to bring it all up date with modern materials and regulators. Sounds like a good idea to me. It'll be done in a day's time, new equipment from the tank to the house and garage, and I don't have to touch a thing!

 

[Bronson]

Glad You are having the job done right.
No need to blow up the neighborhood to save a few bucks.

 

[D.J.]

Speaking of that I heard on the National news this am that the explosion in Indiana might have been criminal in nature.

 

[CNGsaves]

Good to see that you'll have Safety First on this propane gas issue. For $600 turn-key deal, you DO HAVE an excellent propane company - - take the deal but make sure they are using Risers with Shutoffs at each end. For comparison, I had a local plumber quote me $1,000 just for my 25 feet underground yellow plastic pipe run for natural gas (even if I did the digging)!! That plumber's number is now removed from my contact list!

Curious what size and style of pipe/connections that propane is going to use? They may have FUSION machine where they can actually melt the connections together between underground yellow plastic pipe and the riser (ie instead of using Stablock method which is physical connection with O-ring for seal). Are they using 3/4 inch or 1 inch IPS (iron pipe size) thick wall yellow plastic polyethlene pipe? Using risers at each end with shutoffs?

Also make sure they provide certification that they have pressure tested for leaks.

 

[SGKent]

we had black pipe in the ground in Riverside. It rusted through in about 15 years. One could smell gas in certain places. Were it me I would replace the whole thing with whatever the safest solution is. It may sound expensive but compare it with this here in Sacramento 4 years ago. The leak was like 40' from the house that isn't there anymore. The gas followed the disturbed soil back to the house:

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

Am I the only one that the word "Acme" comes to mind in reading this thread?

All kidding aside, this is a job I'd leave to others....and I'd go away for the day too.

 

[barks]

Excellent decision, 87handmedown.

 

[Lippyp]

We have just done this earlier this year, we were replacing the hot water/heating boiler and the existing line was too small to support the demands of the new boiler. Our propane company charges a flat fee of £100 to replace the pipe regardless of distance, only downside is you have to dig the hole. We got a guy in with a backhoe, trenched out, the propane company dropped off a roll of yellow plastic pipe, we buried that after some sand on the bottom of the hole and over the pipe to keep it free of stones etc. At the same time we also made the trench a bit wider and put a water pipe out to the garage/garden and a 16mm2 three core steel wire armoured cable to the garage as it currently has no power and the trench ran right past it. Digger cost us a couple of hundred quid for the day. Propane company then came out and connected both ends. The old pipe was plastic covered copper.

 

[Norcal]

I would use a tapping saddle, you can get them from Ferguson or Northern Water Works.
Relatively easy to use and will get the job done properly.

Are you kidding?????? Gas lines are not something to cut corners on.

we had black pipe in the ground in Riverside. It rusted through in about 15 years. One could smell gas in certain places. Were it me I would replace the whole thing with whatever the safest solution is. It may sound expensive but compare it with this here in Sacramento 4 years ago. The leak was like 40' from the house that isn't there anymore. The gas followed the disturbed soil back to the house:

http://a57.foxnews.com/www.foxnews.com/images/485361/450/350/2_21_h450.jpg[img][/QUOTE]

That leak was PG&E's fault if my memory serves me, they used a section of the wrong pipe. Black pipe being used underground is always bad form, unless it's wrapped pipe & the fittings are done correctly.

 

[87handmedown]

Good to see that you'll have Safety First on this propane gas issue. For $600 turn-key deal, you DO HAVE an excellent propane company - - take the deal but make sure they are using Risers with Shutoffs at each end. For comparison, I had a local plumber quote me $1,000 just for my 25 feet underground yellow plastic pipe run for natural gas (even if I did the digging)!! That plumber's number is now removed from my contact list!

Curious what size and style of pipe/connections that propane is going to use? They may have FUSION machine where they can actually melt the connections together between underground yellow plastic pipe and the riser (ie instead of using Stablock method which is physical connection with O-ring for seal). Are they using 3/4 inch or 1 inch IPS (iron pipe size) thick wall yellow plastic polyethlene pipe? Using risers at each end with shutoffs?

Also make sure they provide certification that they have pressure tested for leaks.

Just got off the phone with the company again, they will be removing the old line, installing two new regulators at the tank, a regulator at the house and the garage each, and will have risers and shutoffs at each location. 3/4" inch IPS will be ran the whole way to both locations.

 

[Zeke]

600 bucks is a smokin' deal (sorry).

If anyone has to tee into a black pipe, cut it, thread it and use a left/right coupling to close it back up if buried or under a house. Union couplings are not allowed.

 

[87handmedown]

Wow, these guys were fast. This turned out to be more of a no brainer than I initially realized. They unloaded, trenched, installed all new lines, hooked everything back up, tested and drove off all in under an hour!

New regulator at the garage. The house looks identical.

Connections out at the tank.

and the new regulator at the tank!

Inside the garage, all ready to go once my Mr. Heater gets here.

 

[BD1]

You did good. Money well invested. I did this for a living and some HANDYMEN aren't so handy when it comes to gas. Leave it to the pros. Too many calls after homeowner ties into gas main for new grill or pool heater and we get a call they smell gas. Fortunately before it goes BOOM!!!!!!

 

[djjsr]

You'll sleep better knowing it was done correctly by a pro. Good move.

I live over 100 miles from Indianapolis and I heard that blast. Something like that would ruin your weekend ......... and your garage.