High Lift Garage Door (Need New Door or Hardware?)

[2001RedCoupeBandit]

Guys,

Almost pulling trigger on my 4 post lift (see post below with link and info). I am taking advantage of my 13' ceilings and want to add a high lift garage door and Lift Master[U3800 Jacklift Opener. Have a standard 16 X 7 Steel (not insulated) Garage Door, in fine shape, so wasn't initially thinking of buying a new one. I am in Texas and door is 9 years old.


Anyway, I THOUGHT I would just need the new High Lift hardware, but a guy came out and said it was almost just as easy to buy the Garage Door and it is already built for a high lift with all the springs and hardware, etc to support THAT EXACT door. Quoted around $765 for New high lift BRAND NEW "HL Garage Door" installed and about $425 for Jacklift 3800 installed
(not including reloacting power of course which I will tae care of).

Here is my Garage. Does this sound Right????

Here was my recent post about a 4 post lift:


http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172232&highlight=post+lift

 

[albaran]

I went through the exact scenerio that you are going through. The difference in getting the whole new door vs retro fitting the old door was not worth the small savings. Plus I got a better door with double pane windows and better r value. This might not matter in Texas but I would still go with the new door.

 

[BPJOOP93]

Go with the NEW everything. but i would get a few more quotes first.

 

[2001RedCoupeBandit]

Thanks I will!!!! Great, new door bit is!

 

[jstroede]

There isn't that much to adding high lift to that door, especially with as light as it is (approximately 160 lbs). I would just work with what you have. Parts are litterally probably $150 or less if you can deal with 54" of high lift. If you need to go higher than that, they would go up a little, but not a ton. Are you going to have it hired out? It sounds like you got someone that really didn't want to mess with it.

John

 

[upndown]

I agree with john! Easy and inexpensive conversion.. new garage doors can always be added at a later date. Good luck!

 

[2001RedCoupeBandit]

Update: No New Garage Door, just use my existing!!!


Guys, totally Agree with you. Well, at least almost, until I have talked with a few guys now. I almost got my kti from a place in Chicago (DMM Garage Doors) and I am in TEXAS.

Anyway, with the parts, you also need cables, drums, springs, etc etc. Apparently, he buys a high lift garage door that is already designed for thisthat has all the parts included. Yes, you can get the parts for $200-$250, BUT, that is not ALL the parts to make it right. (Springs, Cables, Rollers, etc etc). I am all about cost efficiency, BUT if I am only going to save $200, I'll get a brand new door too (maybe insulated). If they can just convert mine cheap, then GREAT!!

Again, Wasn't planning on getting a new garage door!

Again, I am going to call another company out (Besides the one coming on the 13th to see if they can just work with what I have). The guy today was a local guy that was reccomended by a neigbor, btu I don't think he does the high lift all the time on a residence.


Overhead Door is coming out on Nov 13th and I will find another that can maybe do it cheaper.


Here is a Great Link (DIY) on a High Lift! This is where I almost bought the Kit from, and still might!

http://ddmgaragedoors.com/diy-instructions/garage-door-high-lift-conversion.php

 

[2001RedCoupeBandit]

I went through the exact scenerio that you are going through. The difference in getting the whole new door vs retro fitting the old door was not worth the small savings. Plus I got a better door with double pane windows and better r value. This might not matter in Texas but I would still go with the new door.

Nice! Just what I am looking for

 

[jstroede]

Well it sounds like you want the new door. That's fine. I will tell you that the new door won't come with any different parts than you can buy. The only thing that is different is the springs, cables, and drums, plus the track. The track is just a modified version of what you already have though. With the new track, what they will do is cut the back off of the horizontal track to make the high lift insert. A few brackets and a few cuts, and voila...high lift track.

That price you were quoted is for the exact same door you aleady have I am sure, probably a 25 gauge pan door in that market. One thing to worry about too is if that new door would match your other door. Any upgrade is going to cost more.

In general, Overhead Door is probably going to be your most expensive option, especially for something like this.

John

 

[upndown]

Wish you lived closer..

 

[bjcouche]

I recently did a high lift plus a follow the roof pitch conversion to my garage doors. I did three doors total, one 16Wx12' tall and two 10x10 doors, all insulated and heavy. I bought parts from both ddm and diygaragerepair.com. I think I bought my high lift kit from diygaragerepair.com. After I used the kit for the first 10x10, I didn't buy the kit for the second 10X10. I simply called them back and ordered the same springs, cables and drums that they sold me with the first kit. The only additional thing that comes in the "kit" is some track for the vertical portion, some punched angle to mount the track to the wall, and some "jamb brackets" that connect the track to the punched angle. I had plenty of leftover punched angle and the track that they sent in the kit wasn't a perfect match for my existing track. Also, the length of track that you cut off the end of your horizontal tracks is _exactly_ the same length that will be in the kit, so you will already have the track too.
Basically, with your very light doors it should be less than $200 in parts from my estimate. $30.00 in drums, $20.00 in cables, and whatever a new spring costs, between $50-$100. You cannot reuse your existing spring because the new ones will have a different spring rate and length.
The complicated part about the whole upgrade is calculating the correct springs based on the lift height and door weight. IF you buy the kit, the kit seller will do this for you. Basically I wouldn't buy a new door because you are spending a whole lot more money and getting nearly exactly the same thing reinstalled. I suspect that the door contractor wanted to sell you a new door either because he didn't know how to calculate the required components for lifting your door but he knew he could order a new door with the proper calculations already done for him. Also, selling you a new door is more profit for him... Remember, high lifting a door is specialty door work and not commonly done on residential doors. I'd bet most _residential_ door installers won't know how to do it.
If you aren't confident enough to do it yourself, then I recommend asking to see a high lift installation that your prospective contractor did previously, or ask for a reference of someone whose door they lifted. Lots of contractors say, they can do something but have never done anything like it before.
Most of the money you should be spending is in labor, not parts.



Brian

 

[bjcouche]

Here are a couple pics of what I did.

Brian

 

[my58]

This sounds like a repeat of my experience. I got tired of having to close my garage door before raising a car on my lift so I did the highlift conversion the beginning of this year.

I read the same posts and the same info as you have posted. I spoke with DDMgarage doors about the parts and then decided maybe I should let a pro handle it because of the danger with the springs.

I called out a number of garage installers and heard every story in the book from how it cannot be done to I need to replace the entire door. The prices were scary ranging from 12 hundred to 3000. I got so fed up I just decided to take a shot and do it myself. I got the parts needed from DDM garage, purchased the 3800 opener online for a 1/4 the price the local people were selling it and got 2 pieces of rebar to tighten and release the springs. I read over and over posts on this forum and started early on a Saturday morning (figuring I would have Sunday to finish) knowing that the professional installers said it would take them the better part of the day. (I gave myself twice what they said to make up for my lack of experience)

Well 4 hours after I began the conversion and new opener were installed and working. I have not had 1 minute of a problem since installing. I spent many hours of reading and worrying about the install and 4 hrs and about 450.00 to have the door exactly the way I want (about 2-3 inches off my ceiling.

My door was a heavy insulated 2 door with windows and I did the entire thing alone. Have no fear, take your time and do it yourself.

The highlift conversion and 3800 opener is one of my favorite upgrades to my house.

 

[waltonb123]

I went through the same thing when I installed my lift. I had 3 door companies come out to quote and was amazed at the difference.
One said It couldn't be done, another said I needed whole new door and finally the 3rd guy said no problem $100.00 for the high lift kit, $120 to remove old side mounted springs and install torsion spring system and a total labor cost of $100.00. So for a grand total of $320.00 it was a no brainer for me! The only thing I wish I had done at the time and plan on doing soon is having the guy do the other door just because I like the clean look.
Also I priced the 3800 Liftmaster on eBay at under $290.00 shipped.

 

[2001RedCoupeBandit]

Here are a couple pics of what I did.

Brian

Thanks so much!

I wasn't there both times, but first guy said to buy a whole door, not sure how that makes it a high lift? I think he meant that it alrweady comes with rollers, springs, and parts, btu still not sure, need to call and re confirm.


Today 2nd guy came out from Overhead doors. Talked on the phone, he is their HighLift Expert, BUT they charge a lot because they are a big company and this takes 4-6 hours.

He was saying $900-$1200 to use my existing door and get all the new parts and install. Has to use 2x4's etc etc.

Charge $150 to install LiftMaster 3800 if I BUY, they quoted me $800 installed and I was like WHAT!!!??????

Anyway, the expensive guy probably makes $20 an hour and the company will make $700. We spoke on way home from work for 40 minutes, he is really nice and KNOWS his stuff. I tried nicely to ask to do it on the side, but I dont want to get the guy fired and jobs are hard to come by these days. I treid a little, but didn't want to push the guy!

I called DMM a few weeks back and might retry getting the PARTS myself from here or that other place you mentioned, I can show the Guy I spoke with Today that came out to my house while I was at work their website, just so he makes sure MY measurments are right.

He was saying the parts with shipping might not be much cheaper than just using them, BUT, he can install MY PARTS if needed, so thats an option.

I wish I had the 2nd guy above, BUT, he was independant.

I am not sure what to do, btu need to move fast as I want thsi done! I am about to order my BedPak Lift and it's starting to get COLD in Texas and I dont want to park outside.

 

[2001RedCoupeBandit]

Well it sounds like you want the new door. That's fine. I will tell you that the new door won't come with any different parts than you can buy. The only thing that is different is the springs, cables, and drums, plus the track. The track is just a modified version of what you already have though. With the new track, what they will do is cut the back off of the horizontal track to make the high lift insert. A few brackets and a few cuts, and voila...high lift track.

That price you were quoted is for the exact same door you aleady have I am sure, probably a 25 gauge pan door in that market. One thing to worry about too is if that new door would match your other door. Any upgrade is going to cost more.

In general, Overhead Door is probably going to be your most expensive option, especially for something like this.

John

John, THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!! I dont want a door now after hearing what YOU had to say, AND the OverHead Door guy (super nice, but only talked on phone as he came out while I was at work) said same thing, don't need a door!

What shoudl Labor cost on this to do it Right???? He said he was going to mount 2X4's along the wall etc. He does these all the time so he is familiar with this process. Yoru also Right OHD is Super Expensive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

$900-$1200 and thats NOT for the Opener, just the parts and labor to do the high lift.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Thanks and i hope I find the right person too. i want them to make $$, but I don't want to pay $1,000 for the high lift conversion installed, $300 for a LiftMaster 3800, and another $150 to install it. it could be $1,500-$1800 with Tax. That is ridiculous!

 

[2001RedCoupeBandit]

This sounds like a repeat of my experience. I got tired of having to close my garage door before raising a car on my lift so I did the highlift conversion the beginning of this year.

I read the same posts and the same info as you have posted. I spoke with DDMgarage doors about the parts and then decided maybe I should let a pro handle it because of the danger with the springs.

I called out a number of garage installers and heard every story in the book from how it cannot be done to I need to replace the entire door. The prices were scary ranging from 12 hundred to 3000. I got so fed up I just decided to take a shot and do it myself. I got the parts needed from DDM garage, purchased the 3800 opener online for a 1/4 the price the local people were selling it and got 2 pieces of rebar to tighten and release the springs. I read over and over posts on this forum and started early on a Saturday morning (figuring I would have Sunday to finish) knowing that the professional installers said it would take them the better part of the day. (I gave myself twice what they said to make up for my lack of experience)

Well 4 hours after I began the conversion and new opener were installed and working. I have not had 1 minute of a problem since installing. I spent many hours of reading and worrying about the install and 4 hrs and about 450.00 to have the door exactly the way I want (about 2-3 inches off my ceiling.

My door was a heavy insulated 2 door with windows and I did the entire thing alone. Have no fear, take your time and do it yourself.

The highlift conversion and 3800 opener is one of my favorite upgrades to my house.

Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!!!!! That DMM Tutorial makes it look like you can do it!
I am glad you tried it. Do you have a picture fo your finished Master Piece???

I ask, because I am curious how you did the 2 X4's to mount the shaft etc.

I saw a few other pics, but just curious. DMM was decent, but I sent them 95% of measurments, but missed 2, so I might call them tomorrow.

heck, if I can just get the right Parts, Spring, Cables, etc. I bet I can get someone to install them. It doesn't look too hard, but sometimes the angle is tricky, he even mentioned, the 2nd guy that knew hsi stuff, about my outside protruding hadle and he woudl have to do somethign so it wouldn't hit the frame as it went up. DMM website mentions this too!


I could always try it and if I jackit all up, I can call a pro to bail me out.

 

[2001RedCoupeBandit]

I went through the same thing when I installed my lift. I had 3 door companies come out to quote and was amazed at the difference.
One said It couldn't be done, another said I needed whole new door and finally the 3rd guy said no problem $100.00 for the high lift kit, $120 to remove old side mounted springs and install torsion spring system and a total labor cost of $100.00. So for a grand total of $320.00 it was a no brainer for me! The only thing I wish I had done at the time and plan on doing soon is having the guy do the other door just because I like the clean look.
Also I priced the 3800 Liftmaster on eBay at under $290.00 shipped.

Thanks for the reply! I appreciate it!!!!!!!

 

[YZFMax]

Here is a Great Link (DIY) on a High Lift![/COLOR] This is where I almost bought the Kit from, and still might!

http://ddmgaragedoors.com/diy-instructions/garage-door-high-lift-conversion.php

I just completed the high lift conversion using the kit from DDM and it turned out great. The instructions online are from DDM are well documented and even covers the potential issues that you may run into. The kit is complete and comes with the extension rails, springs, drum, cables and the hardware. The cost for the kit was about $280 plus the shipping.

It did take me a weekend to complete the conversion as this was the first time I worked on a garage door, but I am totally happy with the end result. I also installed the Liftmaster 3800 as well. It seems like the garage now has a new life.

Before:

The Kit:

After:

 

[2001RedCoupeBandit]

Guys, I ordered my bendPak lift and also, ALSO, JUST Ordered my High Lift Kit. I talked to DMM several times and I KNOW they are a great company, but the guy I went with someone else because the person I spoke with a few times just didn't treat me the way I wanted to be treated and 'll leave it at that.

I called and orderd from DIYGarage Repair out of Cali. Was done in 10 minutes and will be here next week. It was $375 shipped for dual spring, 54" high lift kit, cables and drums, and whatever else they send you.


http://www.diygaragerepair.com/High-Lift-Garage-Door-Conversion-p/hlpkit54.htm

Also just got my LM 3800 Jack Lift Opener in the mail today that I got on-line for under $300.

I have a handy man that is going to install this for me. As I was pondering my garage Door Project (which I am getting because I am adding a 4 Post Lift), I started to think to add a SECOND high lift to my Single Garage door too. I am not using the single bay for anything, but currently it doesnt have an opener on it and I was about to BUY a new opener, or move my old one from the double door to the single door anyway.

One would be high and the other would be low. Might look wierd.

Now I am thinking it would be easier to have 2 liftmastwer 3800's. They woudl both be munted up high out of the way and the garages would open the same height and look uniform.

Plus, there would be no opener hanging down?

What do you think. $285 for Opener and probably $300 for High Lift Parts.

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Go for it, they look a lot better if they are the same. After all, most of the people on this site are **** about their garages or they wouldn't be here....

 

[AndyL]

Pricing is subjective... understand what your getting and paying for...

Hardware is not all the same, I charge the highest rates in town to do high lift conversions... but there's a reason Nobody likes what I charge - but the results are well known...

Ask the questions - are they supplying matching tracks, some come in and replace it all, some butcher in non matching parts and cross their fingers... not all 2" track is the same, there's at least 12 profiles I run into locally, some intermix OK, some don't... some doors I have to replace all the track, some I can mix in a high lift piece, some require purchasing from other vendors to ensure decent transitions.

Springs are a big difference... a lot of companies get the most bare minimum or try to fudge it with 'stock springs'. I always go at least a 2 spring (on doubles I like 4 spring) with at minimum 50,000 cycles (usually offering 75k as an option) my competitors, they like 10-20,000 cycle springs. I won't do single spring on a high lift - period (when it does break, it will be inoperable)

Bearings make huge differences, some prefer cheap head plates with crappy pressed in Chinese bearings (and usually plastic bushings in the springs)... I use bearings that are solid and don't have tons of slop (sorry, German not USA)... they run 12$ea vs less than a buck each for a Chinese piece o....

Ask the questions... compare apples to apples, understand what's being done, how, and what they're planning to do.

[/ ]

 

[malodin]

I had one of my bays converted to highlift, went with a c/l "installer" they were a couple of guys doing side work that there boss approved, and priced 1/3 of the competition just to install the highlift track etc. so i went with them, after about 6hrs of work, and 2 different attempts they got it working correctly. These guys had never done a high lift but sucessfully the first time managed to raise the track up and insert a longer upright piece so it rolled up smooth...only rolled up half way then stopped, im like yah thats not going to work? so they called there boss and he was like yeah you got to get high take up drums and a stronger spring. so back to the parts depot and an hour or so later they showed up with new high take up drums and a stronger spring, after all was said and done about 6hrs later (this included the garage door opener) they may have lost money on the job but i am one happy camper as far as the high lift door is concerned.

originally it was supposed to be the garage door opener and high lift door in one, but upon further thought i wanted the garage door opener in my middle bay. so they installed it in the middle bay and then worked on the highlift

some may say that it was a waist and i should have just payed the "expensive" guy to do it correctly the first time etc. but i say
A. it was a learning experience for all involved, incl me.
B. i am still money ahead
C. it has been 2years now and not a single sign of trouble on neither the garage door opener or the highlift track/drums/springs
D. They stood behind there work and did not stop until it was correct

if i had to do it over again(which i may given another project i am working on) i would probably call them back out this time armed with the correct knowledge im sure they would bust it out pretty quickly

 

[2001RedCoupeBandit]

Thanks Guys! My kits shoul dbe here this week and I can get started!

 

[2001RedCoupeBandit]

Got Door #1 Up. Looks Awesome! Just the Kit of course.

 

[kgorman]

Pics?

 

[Trevor454]

I just got my high lift done as well, 9x8' door, 11.5' ceiling height, now I can have my 4 post set on top locks with a car on it, and open door fully to park a car underneath. I am very happy with the outcome!

 

[pdfrogman]

I just got my high lift done as well, 9x8' door, 11.5' ceiling height, now I can have my 4 post set on top locks with a car on it, and open door fully to park a car underneath. I am very happy with the outcome!

sounds like I have the same set up do you have pictures?
thanks

 

[Lee Yoder]

Any update on this project? Pics? Observations?

Later,
Lee

 

[Jazzman442]

This is a great thread. I have had at least 8 Garage Door Company's out and non of them know what A High lift is. They say they do then tell me they will call back with an estimate. Guess what. No one called. I called back a few and they keep trying to stall me saying they have to talk to my garage door maker!!! LOL
Looks like I cam going to have to do this my self. I need to go up about 48".

I even told them i would get the kit and they tell me there is no such thing...

What to doo... You know the saying if you want something done right.....

 

[Just_George]

Bought my kit from DDM - came with everything needed, and great people to work with.

 

[Jazzman442]

Pricing is subjective... understand what your getting and paying for...

Hardware is not all the same, I charge the highest rates in town to do high lift conversions... but there's a reason Nobody likes what I charge - but the results are well known...

Ask the questions - are they supplying matching tracks, some come in and replace it all, some butcher in non matching parts and cross their fingers... not all 2" track is the same, there's at least 12 profiles I run into locally, some intermix OK, some don't... some doors I have to replace all the track, some I can mix in a high lift piece, some require purchasing from other vendors to ensure decent transitions.

Springs are a big difference... a lot of companies get the most bare minimum or try to fudge it with 'stock springs'. I always go at least a 2 spring (on doubles I like 4 spring) with at minimum 50,000 cycles (usually offering 75k as an option) my competitors, they like 10-20,000 cycle springs. I won't do single spring on a high lift - period (when it does break, it will be inoperable)

Bearings make huge differences, some prefer cheap head plates with crappy pressed in Chinese bearings (and usually plastic bushings in the springs)... I use bearings that are solid and don't have tons of slop (sorry, German not USA)... they run 12$ea vs less than a buck each for a Chinese piece o....

Ask the questions... compare apples to apples, understand what's being done, how, and what they're planning to do.

[/ ]

Want to fly to Florida? I can not find anyone that can do these...

 

[ebfabman]

good info here...