Liftmaster 3800

[Adam 442]

My door manufacturer (steelcraft) doesn't think the 3800 will be able to handle my 10*12 commercial door with one row of windows and I should buy a commercial opener. Does anyone have any eperience with a door this size? According to the specs it should be jsut fine.

Thanks!

 

[madosta]

A door typically should be fairly balanced with the assist springs and require only slight power to lift and close.

With a commercial door, I would think the same rules apply, even if it's insulated and steel on both sides.

 

[pattenp]

The 3800 specs say door up to 14' high and 18' wide or up to 180 sqft. Torsion bar must be 1" and drums 4" to 6".

 

[djjsr]

I have a 10x12, steel inside and out, foam filled, three 8" x 16" windows, built by Clopay. The 3800 handles it just fine so far, only about 2 years old.

 

[ForceFed70]

I talked to a few door companies who all basically said they would not install the 3800 opener on larger doors (especially thicker and heavier doors). Despite what the 3800 is rated for.

These guys have the experience so I tend to agree with them I know you want the 3800 but it seems to be a common problem with this opener not handling the heavier doors (despite balancing). There is a reason they don't want to install this opener on those doors... they've had problems.

I would look at a jackshaft opener rated for commercial use to match you commercial use rated door.

 

[HAP]

I have a comercial 10x16 door with a 3800 on it working great for the last 6 years. Just love the soft start and stop... I also have two more on the attched garage with comercial doors as well; no problems.

R,
HAP

 

[wssix99]

My door manufacturer (steelcraft) doesn't think the 3800 will be able to handle my 10*12 commercial door with one row of windows and I should buy a commercial opener. Does anyone have any eperience with a door this size? According to the specs it should be jsut fine.

Thanks!

Why not buy a Liftmaster Commercial jackshaft opener, then? They have a number of models, including the 3900, which appears to be the commercial version of the 3800. http://www.liftmaster.com/lmcv2/pages/productfamily.aspx?famid=45


(Disclaimer: I am not in any way connected to Liftmaster and have received no direct compensation or other consideration for this post. Should Liftmaster wish to contact me in order to give me free products or a discount on my upcoming garage door opener purchase, they can PM me on this site.)

I talked to a few door companies who all basically said they would not install the 3800 opener on larger doors (especially thicker and heavier doors). Despite what the 3800 is rated for.

These guys have the experience so I tend to agree with them I know you want the 3800 but it seems to be a common problem with this opener not handling the heavier doors (despite balancing). There is a reason they don't want to install this opener on those doors... they've had problems.

Maybe these guys want to sell you a more expensive opener? lol (I am very wary of "expert" installers and generally discount any advice they give if I don't think they can read/understand the instructions.)

I'd say that the manufacturer knows best. Now... there is probably a good case to use a commercial opener on a commercial door. The amount of use commercial doors and residential doors get is typically very different, thus the durability for the openers should also be different.

 

[drackett_19]

I have a Steelcraft insulated 16x9 door and the 3800 handles it fine. Really quiet operation too.

 

[Adam 442]

Why not buy a Liftmaster Commercial jackshaft opener, then? They have a number of models, including the 3900, which appears to be the commercial version of the 3800. http://www.liftmaster.com/lmcv2/pages/productfamily.aspx?famid=45


(Disclaimer: I am not in any way connected to Liftmaster and have received no direct compensation or other consideration for this post. Should Liftmaster wish to contact me in order to give me free products or a discount on my upcoming garage door opener purchase, they can PM me on this site.)




Maybe these guys want to sell you a more expensive opener? lol (I am very wary of "expert" installers and generally discount any advice they give if I don't think they can read/understand the instructions.)

I'd say that the manufacturer knows best. Now... there is probably a good case to use a commercial opener on a commercial door. The amount of use commercial doors and residential doors get is typically very different, thus the durability for the openers should also be different.

From what i understand, the 3900 is the same as the 3800 except for the fancy controls.

To clarify, the doors are on my personal garage. Went with commercial for the higher R value.

Thanks for the responses everyone, I'm going to go with two 3800's.

 

[ForceFed70]

Maybe these guys want to sell you a more expensive opener? lol (I am very wary of "expert" installers and generally discount any advice they give if I don't think they can read/understand the instructions.)

I'd say that the manufacturer knows best. Now... there is probably a good case to use a commercial opener on a commercial door. The amount of use commercial doors and residential doors get is typically very different, thus the durability for the openers should also be different.

No, the both wanted to sell me a standard opener that was actually cheaper. They had no problem with installing the 3800 on the 10x10 door.

 

[GTO]

I have a 16'x8' Ammar Insulated door with my 3800.It's been working fine since 2007.

 

[PASSMORE]

I have 4 19'w x 14'h insulated panel doors. I have been using 4 3800's on them. I am replacing them with a commercial drawbar unit as the 3800 is unfit for this application. The ability to lift the doors is not the issue, the 3800 has plenty of power and torque (and thus the mfg being confident in spec'ing for these apps). My issue lies in the lowering of the door and the cable jumping. Each door setup is unique so yours may work fine, I just have not found the opener to be a one size fits all solution.

 

[mm08822]

The torsion springs reduce the effective weight of the door as posted earlier. The springs are properly torsioned around the torsion bar when a closed door will open with minimal upward force. You can check this without the opener attached (or even purchased yet). The number of wraps around the torsion bar on each spring should be equal. Adjust each spring until the door opens with just 5-10 #. The opener will never see the full weight of the door because of the spring assist. Be careful adjusting the springs so you don't get wacked! If you have a choice of springs - buy good ones - high number of cycles.

 

[jkeyser14]

I have 4 19'w x 14'h insulated panel doors. I have been using 4 3800's on them. I am replacing them with a commercial drawbar unit as the 3800 is unfit for this application. The ability to lift the doors is not the issue, the 3800 has plenty of power and torque (and thus the mfg being confident in spec'ing for these apps). My issue lies in the lowering of the door and the cable jumping. Each door setup is unique so yours may work fine, I just have not found the opener to be a one size fits all solution.

People on this forum have run into this problem before. The issue is not having enough tension on the cable as the door goes down. They fixed it by putting a small slope in the track to keep more of the door weight on the cable. I would do a few searches before getting rid of those 3800's.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

I have 4 19'w x 14'h insulated panel doors. I have been using 4 3800's on them. I am replacing them with a commercial drawbar unit as the 3800 is unfit for this application. The ability to lift the doors is not the issue, the 3800 has plenty of power and torque (and thus the mfg being confident in spec'ing for these apps). My issue lies in the lowering of the door and the cable jumping. Each door setup is unique so yours may work fine, I just have not found the opener to be a one size fits all solution.

I've been dealing with a similar story. And after much tuning & tweaking, I think i got it...
For a while there I was feeling like you...I coulda saved a few bucks, bought some normal DC Crapsman openers and voila, never have another issue again.
I'm still not out of the woods completely with one of them...but its close enough I dont think I'll have a problem, and by pure stroke of luck, I think I found the issue this weekend.

Long story short, a Pro can install a 3800 Easily because they know what to look for, how to set it all up, etc... Jackshaft Rookies like me need to learn. I'm sure once I get these 2 doors done, doing the last door will be easy and probably perfect from the get go. I am still happy I went to the 3800's...

 

[PASSMORE]

People on this forum have run into this problem before. The issue is not having enough tension on the cable as the door goes down. They fixed it by putting a small slope in the track to keep more of the door weight on the cable. I would do a few searches before getting rid of those 3800's.

Been there, done that + quite a few other tweaks to no avail. In general, they work "most" of the time but always fail when you least want them too (I've gotten pretty quick at the fix now thought!). You will notice that I say in my "application" because these would work out fine probably if our doors were set up differently. But they are not and the 3800 is not suitable for my installation. We will use them on two of our other smaller doors we have and I suspect they will work out great. If you have a smaller radius on your track, then you may have issues with this opener unless you are willing to compromise clearance.

That all said, you have given me one other idea I am going to try before putting in the new units.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

That all said, you have given me one other idea I am going to try before putting in the new units.

You got a point and I kinda feel the same...my door worked fine for a month or so then bang...problems.
What I'm thinkin of as an insurance policy for lack of better terms is the down pressure springs...cause once the door is in motion on its way down, with tension on the drum at all time there is no way for it to flub-up...thats why the normal old school openers are so bullet proof.

 

[PASSMORE]

You got a point and I kinda feel the same...my door worked fine for a month or so then bang...problems.
What I'm thinkin of as an insurance policy for lack of better terms is the down pressure springs...cause once the door is in motion on its way down, with tension on the drum at all time there is no way for it to flub-up...thats why the normal old school openers are so bullet proof.

We tried the springs you speak of. Helped but not the solution for us.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

We tried the springs you speak of. Helped but not the solution for us.

Interesting...Why did they not work? I'd like to know before blowing 100 bucks or so on something that wont/might not work anyways...

Oh, I did pitch my tracks up 10" from level at the rear, seemed to help tremendously...now I think the door is "Crooked" when its up and thats why one side's cable is a little slacker then the other side only when in the up position.

 

[Blk88GT]

I've got 3 10Hx12W commercial doors with Liftmaster 3800s. They seem to work just fine. I do have tracks that match my 2/12 inside ceiling pitch though.

My only complaint is I wish the openers were faster.

 

[PASSMORE]

Interesting...Why did they not work? I'd like to know before blowing 100 bucks or so on something that wont/might not work anyways...

Oh, I did pitch my tracks up 10" from level at the rear, seemed to help tremendously...now I think the door is "Crooked" when its up and thats why one side's cable is a little slacker then the other side only when in the up position.

I suspect the pitch in your rails would do as good or better than the springs. The springs merely serve to "get the door going".

 

[Herb67SS]

I spent quite some time with the installer of my doors (about 12hrs total) since Amarr couldn't get the track radius right 3 times!!! I asked him about the "slack cable on start" issue with LM3800s since I had 2installed, one on a 10x9 following a 4/12 pitch ceiling in the lift bay, and one a double walled, insulated 16x9 high lift. Both are commercial installs. He said he's installed about 100 of those 3800s and never had one fail unless someone else installed the door. He said its all about setting up the door correctly - more than just the springs. He said there's more to the track set up than most people realize.

He's been doing garage door installs for a living for 32yrs. He says those 3800s are good openers. He has no issues having to install them, and he doesn't get paid for call-backs. So if they were problematic, he wouldn't accept the install contracts.

BTW- mine work perfectly, glad I bought them. They were cheaper than the draw bar openers and leave the lift bay clear. He also converted 2 other doors from extension spring opening to torsion spring opening mechanisms in 45 mins each. This guy knew his stuff. Those doors haven't worked that smoothly in 15yrs.


Just another perspective for consideration.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Herb,
Did your installer ever comment or mention his secrets? I'll be honest...I love the way the LM3800's work...since pitching the tracks up, my door does seem more reliable. BUT by the same token, as a LM3800 noob, I hate living with this constant fear of the whole thing going haywire again. I was so pumped & proud to have LM3800's but I had to do this ALL over again, I think I probably wouldnt have gone with them. I'm actually wiring my garage now for normal openers....JUST in case. I had to modify the one set of rails I did...not touching the other 2 doors until I know this is solid....

 

[Herb67SS]

No, but I suspect it has to do with the track alignment and spring force balance.

I noticed a couple of strange things when he was installing my doors and openers. First thing was that the side tracks were not vertical on both doors. They pitched out from the base to the top, near the radius. When I noted they weren't plumb (I'm a little **** about that some times) he said it was intentional. Said it was a "pinch track" set up, the track actually narrowed as the door descended. Helped prevent binding. Don't know if that's true but both my doors are set up that way and work fine.

When I asked about sloping the horizontal portion of the track to provide down force, he said nope, not needed. That opener has plenty of down force.

Here's a trick I wasn't aware of, when he made the initial up-down run with the opener to set the limits and allow the opener to establish the needed down/up force automatically, he pulled down on the door as it was descending. I asked how come? He said it put the opener into a minimum down-force mode. In other words, he was making the opener think the door was lighter than it was. He said it made the safety/auto reverse more responsive (sensitive). So I have to assume if you add some resistance as the door is descending, it would increase the down force of the opener since they are "self adjusting". So you may want to try that by going thru a re-set up of your opener.

I,m confident that most of the probs with 3800s is door balance/track adjustments or opener set ups. I'd make sure the door is balanced and door hinges and rollers are oiled and not binding and go from there. Too many 3800s are in use to be unreliable POS's.

 

[1500hd]

It really does help to put some slope in the horizontal track sections. I did this with my 3800 to help keep the cables tight.