Another 6-30P heater plug?

[madosta]

So I just purchased this heater from Northern Tool

It has a 6-30P cord.

I'm looking for some future expertise. I have a 6-50P welder plug and could plug it into that, but don't want to do that. I could install a 6-30R receptacle on a 30amp breaker and #10.

I'm thinking about what I would use in the future and 6-30R doesn't seem that popular for what I will be using.

So I'm thinking about installing an L14-30R or a 14-30R and making a whip to 6-30R eliminating the neutral or recording the heater.

What about the 10-30R?

Related:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126964
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=173502

I will probably just install the 6-30R and go from there, but wanted some personal thoughts.

 

[pattenp]

You shouldn't use a 10-30 because it's the old style range/dryer plug that uses the neutral as a ground. Stay with either the 14-30 or 6-30.

 

[madosta]

You shouldn't use a 10-30 because it's the old style range/dryer plug that uses the neutral as a ground. Stay with either the 14-30 or 6-30.

Good to know. I figured there was something not recommended about that plug.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The 10-30R is non grounding, so if you are feeding it from a sub panel, grounding through neutral is not allowed. The only thing I could think off is to make a 6-50R to 6-30R adapter dongle but u would have to swap the 50a breaker feeding it to a 30a. Kind of a pain, but cheaper and easier than putting in a new 30a circuit.

 

[madosta]

The 10-30R is non grounding, so if you are feeding it from a sub panel, grounding through neutral is not allowed. The only thing I could think off is to make a 6-50R to 6-30R adapter dongle but u would have to swap the 50a breaker feeding it to a 30a. Kind of a pain, but cheaper and easier than putting in a new 30a circuit.

I will be using the 50amp breaker for welding so I don't want to do that. I think I'll go with a 30amp 10ga 4 wire L14-30R so I can use it for various stuff.

Was thinking about a 6-50P to 6-30R distribution box, but don't see anything made already.

 

[theoldwizard1]

So I'm thinking about installing an L14-30R or a 14-30R and making a whip to 6-30R eliminating the neutral or recording the heater.

L14-30 is popular with generators so it is somewhat common. I have a L14-30P to 6-20R whip/adapter to run my compressor off of my generator (6-20 is more popular than 6-30, because 6-20 also covers 6-15.)

You might be surprised at the cost of the parts !

What about the 10-30R?

10-30R is not listed on this chart.[/QUOTE]

 

[Gary S]

I have two 240v heaters in my garage. I consider them full-time use, so I wired a full-time plug for each of them. Both these plugs are high up on the wall where the heaters are, so nothing else will ever be plugged into them. This way, you just put in whatever receptacle the heater needs.
If I need other 240v service, I will add the correct plugs exactly where I plan to use them.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

The only thing I could think off is to make a 6-50R to 6-30R adapter dongle but u would have to swap the 50a breaker feeding it to a 30a. Kind of a pain, but cheaper and easier than putting in a new 30a circuit.

Why so?
WAYYY back when I first wired my attached garage, I spoke with an electrician about it at a job site we were both working on...he said to use a 14-50 instead of the 6-50 so I had a neutral if I ever needed it, AND to just make dongles/whips for whatever needed...even if I only needed 220v 20a.

I had asked about the breaker thing and he said the breaker protects the "permanent wiring" and outside/past the plug, you can size the dongle/wire/etc based on the load. His example being, on my Miller Maxstar 150 for example..comes factory with a 6-50 plug, but the wire itself is only 10ga. You can hook up 16ga extension cords all day to a 20a outlet...and most appliances or tools, even though are plugged into 15A circuits at min, come with some awfully scrawny wiring...


So yes, I have an assortment of dongles I've fabbed up along the way. So glad I went with the 14-50 vs 6-50.

PLUS, added benefit...when I needed a recept. to put in the new garage to hook up my generator (in case) when Hurricane Sandy was headed our way, HD and Lowes had PLENTY of 14-50 parts & accessories. STRIPPED Clean of L14-30 stuff...

If it were me, I'd hack off the 6-30P from the cord and slap on a 6-50P assuming it will reach...

 

[madosta]

I do think that would be the easiest solution, but not likely the safest. I never plan on using it without being within 30 feet of it. Hmm.

And the cord will reach just fine. I guess there's no clear cut DO NOT put a 30 amp heater on a 50 amp breaker unless the manual specifies it.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Why so?
WAYYY back when I first wired my attached garage, I spoke with an electrician about it at a job site we were both working on...he said to use a 14-50 instead of the 6-50 so I had a neutral if I ever needed it, AND to just make dongles/whips for whatever needed...even if I only needed 220v 20a.

I had asked about the breaker thing and he said the breaker protects the "permanent wiring" and outside/past the plug, you can size the dongle/wire/etc based on the load. His example being, on my Miller Maxstar 150 for example..comes factory with a 6-50 plug, but the wire itself is only 10ga. You can hook up 16ga extension cords all day to a 20a outlet...and most appliances or tools, even though are plugged into 15A circuits at min, come with some awfully scrawny wiring...


So yes, I have an assortment of dongles I've fabbed up along the way. So glad I went with the 14-50 vs 6-50.

PLUS, added benefit...when I needed a recept. to put in the new garage to hook up my generator (in case) when Hurricane Sandy was headed our way, HD and Lowes had PLENTY of 14-50 parts & accessories. STRIPPED Clean of L14-30 stuff...

If it were me, I'd hack off the 6-30P from the cord and slap on a 6-50P assuming it will reach...

Yes, technically per code the breaker protects the inside wiring but I just like to make things idiot proof with safety in mind. Thus the reason I suggested switching out the breaker. Technically, he could make a dongle and leave the 50a breaker in place.

And yes, you could use a 16 gauge cord on a 20a breaker. I've seen people do it and watched their cord melt and catch on fire. Some people are just clueless when it comes to this stuff!

 

[madosta]

I ended up installing a new 30amp dual pole breaker with two BLACK #10s and a #10 green to a 6-30R.

Yea yea, someone bring me some red #10.

It's semi-temporary. Need some judo ninja to figure out my conduit bends so they're perfect.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

No need for red #10. You could just use red tape. And actually, since its strictly 240v(no neutral), the only conductor that is required to be full color(no taped ends) is the egc!

 

[madosta]

No need for red #10. You could just use red tape. And actually, since its strictly 240v(no neutral), the only conductor that is required to be full color(no taped ends) is the egc!

Ok, I was wondering that. I do want to get some red #10 though for when I install an L14-30R in its place. Would make things cleaner I think.

 

[madosta]

Ok, so I got 'er installed. Sheesh, someone can come over and bend this conduit for me that's for sure.

Might flip that 6-30R around though.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Ok, I was wondering that. I do want to get some red #10 though for when I install an L14-30R in its place. Would make things cleaner I think.

Sure, it may look cleaner, but its not needed and a waste of $ IMHO. EGCs are the only wire that must be green jacketed(no tape) for sizes #1 and smaller!

 

[Norcal]

Sure, it may look cleaner, but its not needed and a waste of $ IMHO. EGCs are the only wire that must be green jacketed(no tape) for sizes #1 and smaller!

The code only requires that for 6 AWG & smaller, not 1 AWG.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The code only requires that for 6 AWG & smaller, not 1 AWG.

O Ok. I thought I read somewhere that it was #1. (I can't wait to get my NEC code book next week so I don't keep screwing up on code citations / I wish they weren't so darn expensive!)

 

[pattenp]

Don't sweat it wylie, there is always someone watching over you. It's easy to get the numbers mixed up. I've learned to check my code book before I post something if I have even the slightest doubt my memory may be wrong. But even then my interpretation of the code is sometimes off.