GearWrench vs. Craftsman

[Merkava_4]

What if Sears gave up on sanctioning Danaher into making "consumer grade" tools and went to all GearWrench; would that make for a more satisfying shopping experience? I'm thinking the penny pinchers at Sears corporate should abandon the goal of having red tag sales and let the manufacturers build a quality tool.

 

[le6920]

How would things get warrantied? Would you get a Taiwan gearwrench in exchange? There are tons of people who will only buy USA products. I think they would shoot themselves in the foot if they abandoned the C-Man USA label.

 

[Merkava_4]

There are tons of people who will only buy USA products.

I don't think so anymore; especially the people that shop at Sears.

 

[Fedwrench]

I think if Sears only sold Gearwrench stuff instead of Craftsman, the American consumer would destroy the Gearwrench brand. The demand for cheap but, it better have a lifetime warranty mentality would ruin any tool brand. The average American doesn't want to pay for a quality tool. look at some of the past threads about Craftsman quality, despite paying only pennies a piece for sets half off. You combine that with warranty fraud, and let's not forget the infamous $5.00 coupon, and it's no wonder sears can't make a buck. I hope that Gearwrench survives in it's niche of midpriced mechanics tools and doesn't try to be everything to everyone. Every tool brand is cutting quality corners to improve profits. I feel that it will be hard soon to get a quality product at any price.

 

[Merkava_4]

The demand for cheap but, it better have a lifetime warranty mentality would ruin any tool brand.

Is that demand really coming from the consumer or is the demand coming from the Sears corporate big wigs?

 

[Chief]

le6290 brings up a good point. what i'd like to know is how much of c-man sales is to those who use there tools regulary and how much it to people who want to stock a basic tool box? given their relatively deep selection of hand tools, i would say they are aiming sales to the serious but not professional user. if this is the case, i would be happy to pay more to get a quality tool. the new c-man hand tools are junk. what good is made in america if its junk? there are always going to be people who go to harbor freight for the cheapest tool. these people will soon learn that if they use the cheap stuff, they'll end up paying for it

 

[goodfellow]

le6290 brings up a good point. what i'd like to know is how much of c-man sales is to those who use there tools regulary and how much it to people who want to stock a basic tool box? given their relatively deep selection of hand tools, i would say they are aiming sales to the serious but not professional user. if this is the case, i would be happy to pay more to get a quality tool. the new c-man hand tools are junk. what good is made in america if its junk? there are always going to be people who go to harbor freight for the cheapest tool. these people will soon learn that if they use the cheap stuff, they'll end up paying for it

I'll agree with most of what you said, but I also have to reluctantly admit that the higher end chinese tools (especially hand tools and socket sets) that are sold at HF are of good quality -- and getting better. They have come a long way in the past five years. Chinese quality is improving because consumers demand better quality and HF is responding (also notice prices are somewhat higher for these items).

Just look at the HF "Professional" line of sockets, ratchets, and pliers -- I was amazed at the fit and finish when I recently looked at these tools. In my humble opinion, they are on par with Gearwrench --

 

[Merkava_4]

the new c-man hand tools are junk. what good is made in america if its junk? there are always going to be people who go to harbor freight for the cheapest tool.

I agree the the current Craftsman tools are junk and I might add that the people who shop at Sears are also the same people who shop at Harbor Freight.

 

[goodfellow]

I agree the the current Craftsman tools are junk and I might add that the people who shop at Sears are also the same people who shop at Harbor Freight.

Nothing wrong with shopping at HF. You just have to be selective in what you buy. I have a lot of HF shop equipment (Presses, engine stands, cherry pickers, love the 4.5" paddle switch grinders, etc..) -- most all have served me well for over 20 years.

My point is that the old HF "junk tool store" is no longer just selling cheap ****. It does have good quality tools -- you just have to know which are which.

 

[Brandon_Lutz]

What if Sears gave up on sanctioning Danaher into making "consumer grade" tools and went to all GearWrench; would that make for a more satisfying shopping experience? I'm thinking the penny pinchers at Sears corporate should abandon the goal of having red tag sales and let the manufacturers build a quality tool.

I'd quit shopping at Sears and start saving pennies for Snap On tools as it appears that would be the only way I could find a good American made end wrench/socket/ratchet. Or start buying SK and Armstrong from various online distributors.

 

[wantedabiggergarage]

How would things get warrantied? Would you get a Taiwan gearwrench in exchange? There are tons of people who will only buy USA products. I think they would shoot themselves in the foot if they abandoned the C-Man USA label.

How would WHAT things get warrantied?
Gearwrench stuff, is already warrantied by Sears, if they carry it in the store, by contract. Same way with Lowe's, where I replaced my one broken Gearwrench. (someone else broke their larger Gearwrench, 21mm? and had the Mac man swap it).
Craftsman stuff, already lost the warranty on some items, they went to the OEM maker, like Vaughn, Weiss, etc. On other items, hammers, tape measures, they went to the old days (I remember them) where you replace a handle, and the tape measures innerds.

 

[speed bump]

Anybody remember the outcry when Craftsman went to made in Japan stuff? It was good stuff but it wasn't made in USA. Personally I own one set of Gearwrenches becuase I wasn't there to purchase them and so I ended up with Chinese tools. I was so mad I told wrote Sears a letter and told them I didn't like them giving equal billing to Chinese stuff. If I buy any more ratcheting wrenches i'll spend the money on something made in the USA not from the Chinese even though Gearwrenches are well made.

 

[geaugafletcher]

...and I might add that the people who shop at Sears are also the same people who shop at Harbor Freight.

In other words, price is the only consideration for those rubes?

At my workplace, a violin shop, we know there are huge differences between the $125 Lark bought on eBay compared to a $750 Eastman Strings or $3,750 old Roth purchased here. To Bein and Fushi in Chicago, everything on our shelves is junk and undifferentiated from stuff like Lark.

To be plain, Craftsman isn't necessarily **** because it doesn't hold to the SnapOn standard. Most HF stuff in my experience, however, is **** and I no longer shop there - unless there's a consensus on a board like this that a certain tool/product is worth buying, in spite of its pedigree.

But then again, it's been a good long while since I bought new tools at Sears.

 

[Merkava_4]

To be plain, Craftsman isn't necessarily **** because it doesn't hold to the SnapOn standard.

I don't expect Craftsman to be as good as Snap-on by any means, but it would be nice if their level of quality was at least as good as GearWrench. The GearWrench brand has somehow managed to escape the penny pinchers at Sears corporate.

 

[ToolGlutton]

I am worried that one day, tools from Asia could be as good as those made in USA. Remember how we saw Japanese cars in the old days? I think they are pretty good at coping, learning, and improving.

 

[joshboogie]

I don't expect Craftsman to be as good as Snap-on by any means, but it would be nice if their level of quality was at least as good as GearWrench. The GearWrench brand has somehow managed to escape the penny pinchers at Sears corporate.

So you really think GW is better quality than C-man?

 

[paramudduck]

Talking brand new off the shelves? It seems that way.

From the new items I bought the other day. Gearwrench wins in appearance and in quality of fit. You may have seen my post about the new 15mm that barely fit on the ratchets.

I have had no problems with any of the Gearwrench Items I have purchased.

 

[le6920]

How would WHAT things get warrantied?
Gearwrench stuff, is already warrantied by Sears, if they carry it in the store, by contract. Same way with Lowe's, where I replaced my one broken Gearwrench. (someone else broke their larger Gearwrench, 21mm? and had the Mac man swap it).
Craftsman stuff, already lost the warranty on some items, they went to the OEM maker, like Vaughn, Weiss, etc. On other items, hammers, tape measures, they went to the old days (I remember them) where you replace a handle, and the tape measures innerds.

How would the tons of people with c-man get their current stuff warrantied? Would you get foreign made stuff in return?

Doesn't thier stuff say warrantied forever? That could cause problems.

 

[le6920]

If Sears ditches C-Man products, they'll be very close to going out of business. Without C-Man, Kenmore etc., Sears would be no more.

 

[Merkava_4]

So you really think GW is better quality than C-man?

Absolutely, no question, but I'm not happy to say that.

 

[eschoendorff]

OMG... Are we doing this thread again?

HF Chinese tools are are getting better quality-wise. And they work fine for 80% of the consumers out there. Get over it. Bitching about made in USA is NOT going too change this.

GearWrench (Taiwan and China) is kicking Craftsman's ***. Maybe not in the Cman Pro area - yet, but come on. Look at a Gearwrench screwdriver and a Craftsman screwdriver and tell me which one you would rather use. Made in USA or not, the GearWrench is a better unit.

I will buy USA made good and tools - as long as they are superior in quality to imported tools. But when imported tools are higher quality and cheaper... hey, I'm loyal and patriotic, but I'm not stupid!

 

[eschoendorff]

Absolutely, no question, but I'm not happy to say that.

Holy ****... we agree. What are we up to now, 2 or 3 times?

 

[PoorOwner]

Hmm why another thread to knock Craftsman...

Sears definitely should not give up the Craftsman brand, I have sold some used craftsman stuff and people told me how confident that it would work because it's a craftsman, how they only search for craftsman stuff, that includes power tools that are obviously made in China nowadays.

The craftsman brand itself is huge and had made a good impression to the average male (not people who frequent this section of forum). Although the quality of Craftsman stuff has gone down hill in the recent years.

Why should Sears give up the long history of a brand they have created and just sell GearWrench. I like GW but they do not even come close the line of products that Craftsman has, GW still has a long way to go to have enough products to fill a tool department.

 

[Merkava_4]

Why should Sears give up the long history of a brand they have created and just sell GearWrench?

Because Sears corporate is forcing Danaher to make Craftsman tools on the cheap to satisfy their rinky-dink cheap customer.

 

[PoorOwner]

Because Sears corporate is forcing Danaher to make Craftsman tools on the cheap to satisfy their rinky-dink cheap customer.

Then there is no problem carrying both brands and let gearwrench be the premium brand quality tool, if the quality is truly superior, each brand will each have their niche and the prices will be determined by demand and corporate accounting men. It's like having the option of choosing a Toyota vs Lexus they will have different audiences.

 

[Merkava_4]

Then there is no problem carrying both brands and let gearwrench be the premium brand quality tool, if the quality is truly superior, each brand will each have their niche and the prices will be determined by demand and corporate accounting men.

The problem I have is that Craftsman is taking up shelf space that GearWrench could be in. Want to buy a GearWrench ratchet or screwdriver from Sears? You can't, because the Craftsman product is in the way.

 

[wantedabiggergarage]

How would the tons of people with c-man get their current stuff warrantied? Would you get foreign made stuff in return?

Doesn't thier stuff say warrantied forever? That could cause problems.

While I haven't seen a lawsuit or anything, it already does cause some problems. Items that were constantly warrantied, for abuse, like tape measures changed. Other items, the dropped all together, and then sell the OEM version. You have the choice of a refund, or the other brand, which you have to deal with them on warranty, then.

The problem I have is that Craftsman is taking up shelf space that GearWrench could be in. Want to buy a GearWrench ratchet or screwdriver from Sears? You can't, because the Craftsman product is in the way.

Never seen a Gearwrench screwdriver. But Sears does have better ratchets, but they also target homeowners.
In the 80's they started using the full content of their official warranty (which is a PITA to get). They were starting to import tools, and were turning down professional mechanics who brought in tools for warranty. When our local Sears, tire,oil, battery, etc., place, quit using their own brand of tools, they backed off of that.
Homeowners buy more then they return. Once pro's, or serious DIY'ers buy enough, they use the warranty more and cost Sears $$$. They have gone through this cycle, or trying to Piss off, exchangers (people who warranty, but don't buy), they will turn around again.

 

[PoorOwner]

The problem I have is that Craftsman is taking up shelf space that GearWrench could be in. Want to buy a GearWrench ratchet or screwdriver from Sears? You can't, because the Craftsman product is in the way.

I had no problem ordering GW from the sears website..
Sears shipping is very reasonable or usually free and I have ordered over $500of different style GW ratchets and torque wrenches.

But what about the boxes and pallets of broken craftsman ratchets that should have been melted, why are they being sold on Ebay and probably being re-warrantied slowly and get sold on Ebay again by someone who has alot of time. What it ended up is costing us honest shopper with a decrease of quality, or increase in price.

 

[paramudduck]

Have you ever went to some of the swap meets and seen table upon table of broken Snap on items? One swap meet I go to has a frequent dealer who will cover a 30 foot square space with tables of Snap and Mac tools. Most are damaged in some way so you figure they were warrenty exchange.

You have the same situation there. I imagine as GW gets more popular and warrenty work starts to trickle in a similier scenario will occur.

 

[Danglerb]

What I would love to see OUT of Sears is the Companion stuff, yuck.

Sears sells, SK, and Armstrong, as "pro" products, but I'd say the quality and functionality line is very blurred with Craftsmen and GearWrench added to the equation.

I think a lot of the "new" in the package tools at swapmeets is stolen. Sears like most retailers has a huge operation auctioning of returned merchandise in large lots, but I am fairly certain tools with the lifetime warranty are exluded.

Broken tools show up at the swap meet because they have value, and Sears would not be friendly to bulk returns or warranty regardless of policy.

Swap meets also often have an invisible to the casual buyer trade between dealers before and after normal sale hours. During setup times tool dealers walk around and make offers for all the good stuff, and again during loading up people who failed to sell things offer lots of goods to the regular tool sellers.

 

[Senorpablo]

The problem I have is that Craftsman is taking up shelf space that GearWrench could be in. Want to buy a GearWrench ratchet or screwdriver from Sears? You can't, because the Craftsman product is in the way.

One thing you must consider is that Craftsman is a brand, just like Gearwrench. The important difference is that Craftsman is proprietary to Sears(and affiliated) stores--you must shop there to get it, bringing you into the store. Gearwrench can be sold anywhere. Sears will never give up the Craftsman brand, it's far too valuable.

Say what you will about Craftsman tools, but I feel confident there are probably more Craftsman tools on earth than any other brand. That's remarkable.

 

[billymade]

I would assume if Sears goes under; the Craftsman brand will probably be purchased by someone (Danaher?). It seems to me, that Sears is a already established retailer and distribution system that Danaher is easily able to use without any need for creating a new distribution model.

 

[vmarks]

Hi there,

Reviving a dead thread, with a specific GearWrench vs. Craftsman question.

If this should be a new thread, forgive me.

I just bought the 7pc metric X-Beam ratcheting set.

Things that attracted me to this set were:
$79.99
Surface Drive on both open end and box end (drives on flange, so as not to round, and drives rounded fasteners.)
Box end is completely planar with the wrench handle.
7pcs.

I was also considering Craftsman Cross-Force set.
$124.99
Surface Drive (flange drive) not advertised at all, is only present on box end, not open end.
Box end is not planar with the handle, but instead at the usual 170ish degrees angled.
7pcs.

It appeared to me that both GearWrench and Craftsman were Danaher, but the Craftsman warranty does not exclude abuse, and if one part failed, I could bring just that one part back to Sears. The Sears sales guy told me that they'd cover the GearWrench, but that I'd need to bring the whole set, since they don't stock individuals.


I tend to keep tools an awfully long time. I do like the concept of bringing a tool back to Sears and not having a spot of doubt about the replacement.

I can't recall the last time I broke a wrench, although I have replaced some that had chrome flake off.

I do know the last time I broke a ratchet - Sears replaced that one without a moment's thought.

It essentially amounts to $6 more a wrench for the Craftsman label and warranty, without the surface-drive on the open-end, angled box-end, and a pawl instead of pawl-less design.

So, the questions are:

(1) Does anyone think I made the wrong decision for the additional $45?
(2) Does anyone think the surface drive on the open end is a bad decision (marrs fasteners?)
(3) Does anyone think that the box-end angle is better than having it be completely flat with the handle?
(4) Does anyone have a feeling about the pawl-less GearWrench vs. the reversible Craftsman?

I should probably have asked all these questions before I bought, but I didn't find this place until after.