What 'lectric should I have put in My Tiny Garage?

[DrJaymez]

My garage currently has only one outlet, on the worst wall, and I think it is on the same circuit as the dining room. At any rate, I'm having an electrician out to install a generator transfer switch, and I am thinking about having him give me a quote to also wire the garage, but I want to make sure that I do something that will work for me in the future.

I was thinking about 2 dedicated 20A breakers for the garage and 3 outlets. One on my South Wall and two on my North wall, where I will have my workbench and whatnot. Do you guys with table saws need 2 breakers?

I was thinking about having a 220 receptacle put in as well, but outside of a higher powered air compressor I can't think of a use. And I just don't think I'll ever need one for the around the house work I do. Leaning against this for now for me.

I am thinking about putting 2 outlets in the ceiling for fluorescent lights.

I could do this all myself without the electrician if I didn't want to install new breakers. I could "borrow" from the living room and dining room, but I think that won't work long term. Do I really want my table saw on the same circuit as my TV? Getting into the panel though is outside my comfort zone, so that is where the electrician comes in.

Any thoughts appreciated before I screw this up.

Pics in my garage thread I started below. I may have some ceiling ones to throw up in this thread as well.

 

[ishiboo]

How easy/accessible of a run is it from the main panel to the garage?

You may be best off having the electrician install a sub-panel from the main panel. This way, you could add the outlets yourself with the sub-panel completely shut off at the main panel at your leisure, and have future support for a 240 outlet or whatever you need.

2-2-2-4 SER is running about $1.50 a foot right now, and would be good on a 90A breaker. A sub-panel is very inexpensive as well... $80 gets you a Homeline 100 or 125A main breaker load center with a couple "value pack" breakers - I believe three 20A's and two 30A's or something similar.

It may be only slightly more for him to do a sub-panel and you'd have a lot of future flexibility. Then again, you might not ever need it.

 

[DrJaymez]

The thought had crossed my mind, especially after reading a bit more here. The panel is in the basement, so it has to thread up to the attic and then across to over the garage. Once you get up to the attic it isn't too bad. I bet the whole run could be 35-45 feet depending on where to put the panel, which is actually the biggest issue with the panel. In that garage, wall space is so valuable that I'm not sure I'm willing to sacrifice it for an electrical panel. Unless I got him to put it in the ceiling? Is that even allowed under code?

 

[ishiboo]

The thought had crossed my mind, especially after reading a bit more here. The panel is in the basement, so it has to thread up to the attic and then across to over the garage. Once you get up to the attic it isn't too bad. I bet the whole run could be 35-45 feet depending on where to put the panel, which is actually the biggest issue with the panel. In that garage, wall space is so valuable that I'm not sure I'm willing to sacrifice it for an electrical panel. Unless I got him to put it in the ceiling? Is that even allowed under code?

No.

It could be flush mounted though and you could put stuff in front of it after final inspection is complete

 

[ForceFed70]

Wiring in the ceiling is allowed so long as it doesn't effect the structure.

I'd opt for a 50A subpanel if it's a tiny garage. That's only 6ga cable which will be easy to run and won't break the bank... no harder than 2 x 12ga romex.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I was thinking about 2 dedicated 20A breakers for the garage and 3 outlets. One on my South Wall and two on my North wall, where I will have my workbench and whatnot. Do you guys with table saws need 2 breakers?

I was thinking about having a 220 receptacle put in as well, but outside of a higher powered air compressor I can't think of a use. And I just don't think I'll ever need one for the around the house work I do. Leaning against this for now for me.

Splurge a little.

Ask for a quote to install 10/3 (possibly 8/3 depending on the length) wire from a 240V 30A breaker pair in the main to a small breaker box (4-8 slots) in the garage. Now you have lots of options including a 240V outlet for what ever and plenty of power for any 120V tools.

 

[Ryan87LX]

I second the sub panel idea. If you ever trip a breaker, walking over to a panel is much easier than having to walk into the house and go down into the basement.

240 can certainly be used for a good compressor, but it will also run welders, table saws, ovens (for powdercoating) etc. It's a must have in a garage IMO.

 

[DrJaymez]

There is definitely a table saw in my future. Lord only knows where I will put/store it. Do most run on 240? Or only the 'good' ones?

I suppose if I really wanted to save money, I could have a sub-panel put in and then I could wire everything else myself fairly safely given that I could turn off the breaker to the subpanel in the basement at the main panel. Would give me some experience working in a panel safely.

If I don't go the panel route, is 2 20A breakers reasonable for a tinkerer like me?

 

[pattenp]

If all you'll ever do is tinker, then 2 20A circuits would be fine. I assume you're talking 120V. Usually only the large cabinet table saws use 240V. A portable contractor table saw is 120V.

 

[ishiboo]

Wiring in the ceiling is allowed so long as it doesn't effect the structure.

I'd opt for a 50A subpanel if it's a tiny garage. That's only 6ga cable which will be easy to run and won't break the bank... no harder than 2 x 12ga romex.

He was asking if the panel could be installed in the ceiling, not wiring... not a good idea!

 

[ForceFed70]

If I don't go the panel route, is 2 20A breakers reasonable for a tinkerer like me?

Probably. The problem with this is that you don't have any option for 240V. If you wanted to get a nice compressor or a welder someday, you'd be back at square one. But if you go with a subpanel, you'd easily be able to install a 240V circuit if future need requires it.

He was asking if the panel could be installed in the ceiling, not wiring... not a good idea!

Opps. Yeah, panel cannot be in the ceiling.

 

[DrJaymez]

I'm not gonna lie. Welding sounds fun. Ugh. Maybe I should just have him do a 240 run too and be done with it.

 

[ForceFed70]

I'm not gonna lie. Welding sounds fun. Ugh. Maybe I should just have him do a 240 run too and be done with it.

Haha..If you ask your electrician for 2 x 20A circuits as well as a 240V circuit he's going to suggest putting in a subpanel.

 

[vartz04]

I have a 30 amp double pole breaker powering my garage.
I am like you everything I use is 120 v. Here is what my set up is

on Main Panel - 1 30 amp double pole breaker bringing 30 amps of 220 to the detached garage

1 - 4 slot sub panel in the garage with 4 20 amp breakers
2 - Dedicated Duplex Outlets - each have their own 20 amp circuit.
1 - 20 amp lighting circuit which powers (4) - 4 foot 2 bulb florescents
1 - 20 amp outlet circuit - Powers 4 duplex outlets on the walls and 3 outlets in the ceiling (2 duplex's above the garage door opener which powers the garage door opener, drop light, and cord reel and 1 duplex above the bench that is currently unused)

I have a 28 gallon 120 v compressor, a 1500 watt oil filled radiator, a big mini fridge, a miter saw, and other misc power tools in the garage. In the 4 months I have lived here I have never tripped a breaker.

 

[creativecars]

I would definitely go with the sub panel and 220, "221 whatever it takes". Since the electrician will already be digging into and having the wire out for bigger amps, "I'm having an electrician out to install a generator transfer switch" go with whatever he is already using (6/3,8/3 or 10/3) and take it to the garage. Just my $.02 worth

 

[bczygan]

I'm not gonna lie. Welding sounds fun. Ugh. Maybe I should just have him do a 240 run too and be done with it.

Electrical is all about capacity.
You don't want to have to redo your electrical whenever you buy a new tool.
Anything less than a sub panel will be stop gap.
There is nothing about installing electrical circuits, or even a sub panel, that you can't do yourself.

Get a book about electrical at the big box store. Not the simple one, the more advanced one.
Buy the proper tools and testers.
Get on here an ask lots of questions.

First, plan your system. By this, I mean make a list of all the tools and equipment you might EVER need, want or desire to have in that space. Plan as if there are no cars in it and it is all shop space, full of wood and metalworking and automotive tools.
Now, design your lighting. Plan for general lighting as well as task lighting.
Size your sub panel to accommodate this ultimate plan. Remember that all the tools will not be on at once.
Next, purchase the sub panel and wiring to feed it from the main panel and the breaker for the main panel. Install the sub panel and the feed to the main panel, but don't install it into the main panel. Let your electrician inspect your work and do that for you.
TURN OFF THAT BREAKER AND PUT A NOTE ON THE BREAKER AND THE PANEL FOR PEOPLE NOT TO TOUCH IT!
Next, acquire the breakers and wiring and outlets for your 2-20A power circuits and whatever breakers, wiring, junction boxes and switches needed for your lighting circuits.
Install all of this and connect the circuits and install the breakers in the sub panel.
Get your electrician to check your work before turning on the breaker in the main panel.
Now, you have installed circuits for lighting and just the lights you initially want. You have installed the 2-20A general power circuits for initial power needs. But because you installed a sub panel adequate for any future needs, you can just add dedicated circuits for any machine as you acquire them.
You are saving money and learning by doing the work yourself. You are safe, by having an electrician check your work. And while you are providing for future expansion, you are only installing what you need right now.
Sound like a plan?

Also, looked at your photos. You mentioned not enough wall space. I notice a lot of storage type items like bins and bikes. If you want to maximize shop space could you get those things out of there and into the basement or an outside shed? Or are you in a condo or HOA?

 

[DrJaymez]

bczygan,

Thanks for the vote of confidence! I definitely appreciate the use of a subpanel for future expansion. That said, if I put one in, it will be buried behind a bunch of gear(shh, don't tell anyone), so getting to it if I trip a breaker will be a pain. Plus, I honestly can't forsee a situation in the future where I would need more than 2 20A 120Vcircuits + a 240V outlet.

Also, looked at your photos. You mentioned not enough wall space. I notice a lot of storage type items like bins and bikes. If you want to maximize shop space could you get those things out of there and into the basement or an outside shed? Or are you in a condo or HOA?

The shed in the backyard is property of the good wife, and to keep the peace, I don't store stuff in her shed, and she doesn't store stuff in my garage. The basement has some crawl, but I'm too old/lazy/don't want stuff in a damp environment so I don't store much in the crawl.

 

[DrJaymez]

Haha..If you ask your electrician for 2 x 20A circuits as well as a 240V circuit he's going to suggest putting in a subpanel.

Noted.

 

[vartz04]

Put it on the wall next to the garage door. That is usually wasted space. or on the wall behind where the door to the house swings. Theres plenty of places you can fit a small 18"x24" box and not have it in the way.

 

[jeffahart]

I just posted this on another thread here. I like it becaue you don't have to mess with the main service and it's a DIY job.

Gas dryers is the ticket. Where I live everyone uses gas dryers. But they still wire for the electric dryer. That gives two legs(220) for a 30amp sub panel for your garage. Depending where the laundry room is located, mine is next to my garage. Then you just pull the panel and stuff the wires back trough the wall and rehook for the dryer when you sale the house.

 

[Zeke]

Most table saws use 120v and work fine on a 20A circuit. My sidewinder Skillsaw draws more amps than a table saw unless it's an old beast. If you don't have a lot of room, you don't want an old beast much less a stationary saw that has a 220v motor.

But, you might rent a welder some day and have use for the 220. Having said that, I've welded a LOT on 120v here including TIG. I just put in a 30A 240v circuit for the welders, but I need to redo that assuming I can pull the 10ga out and replace with 8 in my older 3/4 buried conduit. IIRC, it was a ***** pulling the 10's.

The bottom line here, (no pun) is that a lot of shops have all kinds of power tools from lathes, drill presses to bench grinders and a slew of portable corded power tools that all use 120V. It's rare to have such tools that use 240.