Waekon patent infringement on Loadpro

[mikebramel]

 

[Danglerb]

I feel for the guy, bought his probe and think its a good idea, but you can't defend a patent with empty pockets.

 

[bert.]

what a kick in the pants i've recently got his book and leads and think there great maybe we need to get him over here on this forum

 

[KPSquared]

If he's not blowing smoke, I want to support this guy in any way possible.

I'm going to see about ordering a couple of his books at least. Then we'll see about the probe. . .

That video is gold. Seems like a decent human being.

 

[MrMark]

I see it as a guy way too emotional and irrational over this waekon device. That Waekon device does far more than his one trick pony. The weakon is a logic probe with a voltmeter and a glitch capture and a pulsing probe too. It also loads resistance to a circuit that you open up just like the loadpro. I'd much much rather have the Waekon device. He should be working on improving his device and adding functionality (like waekon did) rather than grousing about his claims of "patent stealing".

As far as I can tell from his story weakon did nothing wrong. I've got news for him, that's business 101 that he encountered with Mr. Waekon. And that engineer is right, 50 ohms is essentially an open circuit for a wire. Might as well be anyway although not literally open; nothing is going to work.

He's selling a resistor with leads that partially and fixedly loads a circuit and acting like he invented the transistor. His tool isn't worth much as far as I am concerned, loading a circuit to see if the wire is dropping voltage just doesn't come up that much. And, it is far better to do it with the actual load hooked up when you do need to do it. This is a sideshow really, and not the holy grail of electrical diagnostic. I'd wager that people that bought his loadpro never use it.

He bags on every other tool maker's products like the power probe - you should see some of his rants against that - and now waekon. Waekon obviously thinks there are some big holes in his patent, either that it is invalid or that they don't infringe it. Patents aren't for little guys like this and if he thinks otherwise he is in for a rude awakening.

 

[richfinn]

I have Load-Pro, I use it all the time and it finds faults fast.

I know Dan is a member on GJ, and I just want him to know its a great tool and turns an ordinary tech into a diagnostic specialist, I,m glad you are keeping the faith. I tell everyone I know how good this tool is and point anyone struggling with auto electrics towards your book and the Load-Pro.

I think it would be cool if you could sell a version/or design some screw on adaptors with 4mm banana plugs so I can utilise different types of probes for working on European vehicles as some of the multi plugs are so small nowadays.

 

[kiall1987]

I have Load-Pro, I use it all the time and it finds faults fast.

I know Dan is a member on GJ, and I just want him to know its a great tool and turns an ordinary tech into a diagnostic specialist, I,m glad you are keeping the faith. I tell everyone I know how good this tool is and point anyone struggling with auto electrics towards your book and the Load-Pro.

I think it would be cool if you could sell a version/or design some screw on adaptors with 4mm banana plugs so I can utilise different types of probes for working on European vehicles as some of the multi plugs are so small nowadays.

aeswave have adpators the loadpro allows you to go to 4mm banana

 

[richfinn]

aeswave have adpators the loadpro allows you to go to 4mm banana

They dont ship to the UK tried before with other stuff

If you find a source more local to us let me know.

 

[Fedwrench]

I'm confused, is he unhappy about not making as much money as he thought he would with the load pro?

I own his book, a power probe, and other testing aids but, to me it seems like he feels his load pro should be in everyone's tool box but, is sad that it isn't yet.

The power probe has been around longer and applys ground or 12 volts with the flip of a switch. You can't pick up a trade magazine without seeing an ad for it.

I'm unfamiliar with the new waekon tool but, the tool business is probably more competitive than the actual auto industry. Imitation is the highest form of flattery.

Isn't there room for the load pro, powerprobe, and the Waekon tool in the marketplace?

It has been my experience that a great tool works it way into most tool boxes through solid proven performance and word of mouth rather than marketing. When it comes to meters, Fluke is the most common brand. I do own an ESI meter and although good, it doesn't have the name value of Fluke. Maybe he should have partnered with Fluke instead of ESI?

 

[robe5000]

I've been looking into all of these tools the past few weeks (PP3, LoadPRO, voltpro) I plan on getting the PP3 because the quick and easy ability to apply power and ground to a circuit will be very handy in my line of work, also ill be grabbing a LoadPRO, because its a no brainer for a replacement set of leads for my already expensive and very sensitive piece of testing equipment (my meter)
the voltpro doesn't really do it for me, mainly the price tag and it looks cheap too, if it could apply power and ground then maybe, but now that i know there just a bunch of thieves theres no chance
also i've watched all of Dan Sullivan's videos, he's a smart cat when its comes to electrical, i gotta get his book. Now business he needs to brush up on his skills, he's had 13 years to build a defence for his patent (kind of a cry baby in his videos)
and with Over 4000 techs taught, over 10,000 FET books and 8,000 LOADpros sold he must have made a couple bucks or maybe its time to find a new project?

 

[richfinn]

I'm confused, is he unhappy about not making as much money as he thought he would with the load pro?

I own his book, a power probe, and other testing aids but, to me it seems like he feels his load pro should be in everyone's tool box but, is sad that it isn't yet.

The power probe has been around longer and applys ground or 12 volts with the flip of a switch. You can't pick up a trade magazine without seeing an ad for it.

I'm unfamiliar with the new waekon tool but, the tool business is probably more competitive than the actual auto industry. Imitation is the highest form of flattery.

Isn't there room for the load pro, powerprobe, and the Waekon tool in the marketplace?

It has been my experience that a great tool works it way into most tool boxes through solid proven performance and word of mouth rather than marketing. When it comes to meters, Fluke is the most common brand. I do own an ESI meter and although good, it doesn't have the name value of Fluke. Maybe he should have partnered with Fluke instead of ESI?

I can see what Waekon have done, like power probe they have crammed lots of elements into one tool. What they have done wrong is added the loading function without asking/paying Dan who first incorporated the function into test equipment, even after he had shown them how it works and the advantage it gives to the tech.

I,m sure everyone who has got to the stage of needing to load test circuits already has a high spec multimeter anyway.

The magic of load pro is its simplicity and versatilty IMHO, it plugs into a meter/scope you already understand. With a good spec meter they do everything you would ever need.

You can run current through them like normal meter leads (I would imagine the Waekon is not capable of directly measuring current flow).

 

[kiall1987]

They dont ship to the UK tried before with other stuff

If you find a source more local to us let me know.

Yup they do go onto live chat and ask them they posted me the adaptors and charged $9 postage came within 5 days

 

[GeneralDisorder]

I'm proud to say that I understand enough about electricity to have seen the utility of the LoadPro and I've owned one for quite a while. I was a generator technician in the US Army and I fully understand the value of a voltage drop test. Dan's tool makes quick work of what is otherwise cumbersome and not always possible using the actual load.

Power Probe is a silly toy IMO - I can inject voltage and ground easily with a jumper wire or my portable jump-start pack and I don't need to pay a ton of money for a plastic box with a switch in it.

GD

 

[signcrafter]

I have his book and really like, it was fairly easy for a DIYer like myself to understand. I don't like reading either so most other text books I can't get threw 10 pages and remember half of what I read. His book had something about it that put it in my terms and I was able to understand it and read the book. I go back and re read parts of it all the time. I keep it in the bathroom also for morning reads. I'm just a weekend warrior but really like the electrical aspects and enjoy learning about them and how to test them.

In the video Dan sounded pretty emotional and frustrated and desperate, which is understandable. He puts down the powerprobe. The loadpro and PP are two totally different tools, neither one does what the other does. The PP is a great tool for installations and other things where you can test for positive and ground without repositioning the other end like you have to with a test light. Also has a voltmeter on it so read voltage. Also can apply a ground or power or both for testing purposes. The best feature I think is the LED lights! I put in a remote starter the other week and the PP was a great help, the load pro wouldn't have helped at all in that situation. Two seperate tools for doing two different things, so I don't understand why he puts down the PP. I do have his loadpro, it came with his book for not a lot of more money so I picked it up. For the extra price it was cheaper than a new set of leads for the fluke. Like I said I'm just a weekend warrior so I don't run into a lot of electrical problems where the loadpro is needed, just don't do that much work. But I do see where it has it's place. If you watch his youtube videos it shows where it can be helpful and I'm sure one day it will be of help to me. I do use the loadpro leads on my fluke and really like the "hollow" tips that make it easy to stick the leads on things like pins in connectors.

The voltpro I don't have experience with. I just watched a youtube video on it. I have to agree with Dan that it does look pretty cheap. I don't think it's worth 150 bucks. It basically is a voltmeter with a loadpro leads. Not worth 150 bucks to me. Since I'm sure almost all of us have a multimeter already the loadpro leads are will do the same thing for a lot less money. Also I have to wonder how accurate of a meter the voltpro has, is it as good as a nice fluke? The one thing that might be nice on it is the min/max reading that they show can test things like coils and injectors pulses. They claim it's as good as a scope. I'm not sure if my fluke can do that or not, I'm pretty sure that it has a min/max but I don't have enough experience to know what it can and can't do.

Overall I would agree with Dan that the voltpro isn't needed. Also would have to agree that they copied him and are just another big company out for proffit and don't care who they hurt or steal from along the way. I'd never buy one because I already have the tools to do what it can do.

 

[richfinn]

Yup they do go onto live chat and ask them they posted me the adaptors and charged $9 postage came within 5 days

OK Kiall, any chance of a link or part numbers?? and I will give them another try.

Thanks

 

[richfinn]

I'm proud to say that I understand enough about electricity to have seen the utility of the LoadPro and I've owned one for quite a while. I was a generator technician in the US Army and I fully understand the value of a voltage drop test. Dan's tool makes quick work of what is otherwise cumbersome and not always possible using the actual load.

Power Probe is a silly toy IMO - I can inject voltage and ground easily with a jumper wire or my portable jump-start pack and I don't need to pay a ton of money for a plastic box with a switch in it.

GD

I tend to use my Fluke meter set to amps as a jumper wire.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

I tend to use my Fluke meter set to amps as a jumper wire.

I've avoided doing that as I have come from fields where that will almost always blow the meter fuse but you bring up a good option for most automotive testing. The draw from most things in a 12v system is not large enough to blow a meter fuse that can handle a decent load. Not sure what the Fluke amp fuse size is but my inexpensive meter's (relatively speaking) have 10A fuses and many of the circuits, while not usually drawing that many amps, have fuses capable of 30+ amps.

GD

 

[Steinmetz]

Can anyone tell me what his patent number is? If you have the product, it may be stated on the device.

 

[richfinn]

Can anyone tell me what his patent number is? If you have the product, it may be stated on the device.

I,ll note it tomorrow, I have the leads and instructions in my van

 

[RCRGarage]

I see it as a guy way too emotional and irrational over this waekon device. That Waekon device does far more than his one trick pony. The weakon is a logic probe with a voltmeter and a glitch capture and a pulsing probe too. It also loads resistance to a circuit that you open up just like the loadpro. I'd much much rather have the Waekon device. He should be working on improving his device and adding functionality (like waekon did) rather than grousing about his claims of "patent stealing".

As far as I can tell from his story weakon did nothing wrong. I've got news for him, that's business 101 that he encountered with Mr. Waekon. And that engineer is right, 50 ohms is essentially an open circuit for a wire. Might as well be anyway although not literally open; nothing is going to work.

He's selling a resistor with leads that partially and fixedly loads a circuit and acting like he invented the transistor. His tool isn't worth much as far as I am concerned, loading a circuit to see if the wire is dropping voltage just doesn't come up that much. And, it is far better to do it with the actual load hooked up when you do need to do it. This is a sideshow really, and not the holy grail of electrical diagnostic. I'd wager that people that bought his loadpro never use it.

He bags on every other tool maker's products like the power probe - you should see some of his rants against that - and now waekon. Waekon obviously thinks there are some big holes in his patent, either that it is invalid or that they don't infringe it. Patents aren't for little guys like this and if he thinks otherwise he is in for a rude awakening.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[kiall1987]

AES# 08-717 Adapter

 

[pfarber]

I watched the video... guy is a tool trying to sell a tool.

His patent evidently had some holes in it.

Example, if your patent describes an invention using a momentary push button, I may be able to circumvent your entire patent by using a latching rocker switch. Or by using glass and not plastic for an insulating part.

If it was such an 'open and shut' case then there would be PLENTY of law-dogs willing to work on a contingency (or a very small retainer).

 

[signcrafter]

I watched the video... guy is a tool trying to sell a tool.

His patent evidently had some holes in it.

Example, if your patent describes an invention using a momentary push button, I may be able to circumvent your entire patent by using a latching rocker switch. Or by using glass and not plastic for an insulating part.

If it was such an 'open and shut' case then there would be PLENTY of law-dogs willing to work on a contingency (or a very small retainer).

I don't think he ever said it was an open and shut case. Think he even said how it probably isn't a direct infringement but that it is a copy of his idea. Just like craftsman stealing the bionic wrench design. There is a difference between legally right and morally right.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

I watched the video... guy is a tool trying to sell a tool.

His patent evidently had some holes in it.

Example, if your patent describes an invention using a momentary push button, I may be able to circumvent your entire patent by using a latching rocker switch. Or by using glass and not plastic for an insulating part.

If it was such an 'open and shut' case then there would be PLENTY of law-dogs willing to work on a contingency (or a very small retainer).

And that makes it right to **** the guy over? It's still his idea and even if legally you can copy it by changing some small bit you are still an ****** for doing so and you'll never be the brilliant one with the inventive mind. Just another copycat with no morals and no fiber.

It is quite possibly YOU that are the tool. Along with Waekon and their tool shed of employees.

GD

 

[pfarber]

You either infringe or your don't.

Open or shut he needs a lawyer, not a youtube video.

Other than crying about it, he's still not any better off.

I hope he wasn't hoping for a boycott or 'groundswell of public support'. For that you need a video with women in bikinis.

 

[Altec]

On one hand, I'd have to be nuts to say that because I made a device that puts a load on a circuit that anything else that does this is copying my idea. You might as well try patenting a music note...

On the other hand the Load Pro working in conjunction with a DMM makes for a very useful tool. Way more practical then the Waekon unit. Anyone who says the device is silly, and something else will do the same...Well, I could chuck all my air and power tools because, hell a ratchet will do the same... But I won't because they, like the Load Pro, make the job easier.

 

[Givl Reggin]

...It's still his idea and even if legally you can copy it by changing some small bit you are still an ****** for doing so...

All good ideas are stolen, it happens at all levels... chances are you wrote that on an operating system (Windows/Mac) that was stolen from Xerox.

 

[Hootbro]

Two sides to every story and I have not heard the others side viewpoint.

Videos with emotional anecdotes like his 4 step kids starving or other nonsense is a sideshow and not the main show. He needs to state what he thinks are the facts and lay off the psychological starving family angle.

 

[richfinn]

AES# 08-717 Adapter

Perfect Kiall, I will be ordering some for Chrimbo

Thanks again.

 

[richfinn]

Two sides to every story and I have not heard the others side viewpoint.

Videos with emotional anecdotes like his 4 step kids starving or other nonsense is a sideshow and not the main show. He needs to state what he thinks are the facts and lay off the psychological starving family angle.

No, Dan Sullivan is an ordinary jobbing mechanic and a GJ member (like many of us on here) who devises training material to help techs get better (he has helped me do my job better and fix stuff better). He borrowed money from his parents to chase his dream and he got screwed over for "his idea". I will give him the benefit of the doubt over "The Big Shot" company any day.

 

[Brownsfan]

I have the Waekon tool and I love it. Works great and can be used for a bunch of other things. Iam not patent expert but I see the tools being different enough to be a non issue.

 

[Hootbro]

No, Dan Sullivan is an ordinary jobbing mechanic and a GJ member (like many of us on here) who devises training material to help techs get better (he has helped me do my job better and fix stuff better). He borrowed money from his parents to chase his dream and he got screwed over for "his idea". I will give him the benefit of the doubt over "The Big Shot" company any day.

Dan could have found the cure for cancer and saved a 100 orphans from a burning building, I still want to hear the other side of the story.

In the end, Dan maybe right and have a case. The issue is that there is to much emotional garbage intertwined with his making a case for his cause.

I get the "common man" persona he is portraying. I just find it irrelevant to the discussion if he has or has not a patent infringement case.

 

[richfinn]

Dan could have found the cure for cancer and saved a 100 orphans from a burning building, I still want to hear the other side of the story.

In the end, Dan maybe right and have a case. The issue is that there is to much emotional garbage intertwined with his making a case for his cause.

I get the "common man" persona he is portraying. I just find it irrelevant to the discussion if he has or has not a patent infringement case.

Send them an e-mail and ask them to come join the discussion, if you really want to hear their side of things.

Good luck getting an answer

 

[Hootbro]

Send them an e-mail and ask them to come join the discussion, if you really want to hear their side of things.

Good luck getting an answer

Then what? Lack of input from them makes your case?

The issue is a business issue and any true business is not going to make their case of public opinion on some internet tool board.

I am sure people form an opinion all the time with only one side of the story. People also get bite in the *** when the real truth is something in-between.

 

[Brownsfan]

I will say this about Hickock Waekon. Their customer service is great. I bought the Volt Pro and it broke. They are local to me so I gave them a call. They had someone bring me out a new one and pick up my old one. Did not ask where I got or how long I had it they just wanted to make sure I was happy. It can be found for less than 150 I think I paid 120 for it. I feel bad for Dan because you can see he is very pasionate about what he does and believes in his product. I see the VOLT-PRO and the LOAD-PRO as 2 different tools that share a common feature but the VOLT-PRO does more, as for the PowerProbe. It is completely different. He almost sounds jelous of the success fof the PP. At least that is the impression I got. I will buy the Load-Pro even though I have the VOLT-PRO because it is useful and you can never have too many tools for electrical troubleshooting

 

[Zeke]

Dan may want to pursue copyright infringement or trademark infringement. The ideas behind the various tools may differ, but if VoltPro is using a similar packaging with same colors, they're dead ducks. If they or any others are using quotes from his book or instructions, he's got a case.

If none of these things exist, he's better off selling his idea to Fluke or someone for royalties.

Small guys don't fare well in the market. I have a small invention and don't expect a thing. In fact, I have a few. I spent real money on one many years ago and learned the lesson that all inventors should know. If you stick your neck out, someone will chop your head off.

He better write to "American Invention."

 

[richfinn]

Then what? Lack of input from them makes your case?

The issue is a business issue and any true business is not going to make their case of public opinion on some internet tool board.

I am sure people form an opinion all the time with only one side of the story. People also get bite in the *** when the real truth is something in-between.

Yeah maybe your right, I,m no business brain

Dans done OK by me though and taught me a few things about automotive electrics.

Anyway rather than get into the usual ******* match. I found the parts at AESwave thanks to Kiall. These will make your Load-Pro leads a solid gold diagnostic tool

http://www.aeswave.com/Pin-Tip-Probe-to-Banana-Socket-Adapter-Set-p8517.html

Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[Dereklmartin]

Can anyone tell me what his patent number is? If you have the product, it may be stated on the device.

Patent number
US 6356853
EU 1203202

 

[Toolhorder]

I'm proud to say that I understand enough about electricity to have seen the utility of the LoadPro and I've owned one for quite a while. I was a generator technician in the US Army and I fully understand the value of a voltage drop test. Dan's tool makes quick work of what is otherwise cumbersome and not always possible using the actual load.

Power Probe is a silly toy IMO - I can inject voltage and ground easily with a jumper wire or my portable jump-start pack and I don't need to pay a ton of money for a plastic box with a switch in it.

GD

A toy? lol Okay if you say so. I make plenty of money with my toy.

 

[bsaint]

Couldn't you make this thing with a resistor, a zener, and a 9v battery?