Garage Door Height Extenders

[regularguysc]

Argh!

The spec for my garage called for garage door extenders, or getting the doors as close to the ceiling as possible. I have 12 foot ceilings and 10 foot high doors, 9 feet wide.

So I wander back to the garage (detached, 250 feet from the house) and the contractor is done with door # 1 and working on door # 2 (there are 3 doors). I notice that they are only 10 foot 6 inches off the floor, with 1 foot 6 inches of space to the ceiling. The contractor says the entenders really won't work, so they didn't ship them with the doors.

I call the builder, and a long story short, they are getting extenders tomorrow and must re-install the doors. They think they can gat another 10 inches of head room. They are going to install longer tracks and longer cables. They will be using the same standard radius curve because they do not stock any larger radius curves.

So, my general question is does all this sound right? I'm thinking that I should at least get 11 feet clearance with a 12 foot ceiling and 10 foot doors. Perhaps even the 11 foot 4 inches clearance if the estimate of getting an extra 10 inches is true.

Anyone know how much (or little actually) clearance they have between their door and ceiling when the door is up?

I'm getting **** about this because I plan on putting a 2 post lift in and don't want any issues with the doors. I may also be putting a 4 post lift in at a later date to stack two cars and want as much clearance as possible.

I know the contractor is not happy, about 4 hours of wasted time. So am I just being an *** about getting another 10 (or less possibly) inches?

 

[Herb67SS]

I feel your pain. Just went thru it myself. Wrote a specific spec before the doors were even ordered by my general contractor. One door, (8x16ft) had to hug the flat horizontal 10ft ceiling, the other 10ft wide door in the bay where I am installing a 2 post lift, had to hug the 4/12 interior pitch of the scissor trussed ceiling. Neither was originally installed that way the first time, even though I was charged a fee for a "special" install on both doors. After 3 times, they finally got installed correctly. The 16ft door is less than 12 inches from the ceiling, and 10ft door follows the pitch of the ceiling in the lift bay. It hugs the ceiling pitch less than 12 in. But it took an installer who a)knew his stuff. He specialized in commercial door installs, b) cared enough to compensate for the factory's engineering incompetence. After 3 wrong track configurations were shipped to my site, he and I used pieces and parts from the tracks to create the correct height, lift and curve of tracks to allow the 10 ft door to follow the vaulted ceiling pitch.

Seems the door mfgr actually supplies the tracks per the door order and the installation contractor just bolts it up. Well, I can assure you the order was placed correctly. The installer only gets paid once so he wasn't interested in doing it for free 2 more times. Amarr just couldn't get the track curve designs right. Shouldn't have been that hard. It's simple geometry. It's not like the requirement was unique or not done before. And it's easy enough to mock up in a plant to insure the design is right. But obviously it wasn't important enough for Amarr to get right the first, or second time. BTW - I like their doors, they are well made. They just need to fire their track designers.

 

[regularguysc]

Small world, my contractor is using Amarr out of Columbia SC for the doors. I like the doors, even sprung for a row of windows for more light.

BTW, I'm keeping the door manual. Not in the garage but maybe once a day (more like about 3 times a week) and a $1000 for openers on 3 doors I'd rather spend elsewhere.

 

[Colonial Cobra]

I had to make custom track extensions to get mine the way I wanted it. Made a few sheet metal brackets, and cut track from the horizontal section to scab into the middle. You may have to get high lift cable drums to make it work. I tried it with the stock drums and couldn't get the door lift weight low enough. My front doors only needed to be raised about a foot but my rear door needed to follow the 4/12 pitch of the roof.

 

[wssix99]

The contractor says the entenders really won't work, so they didn't ship them with the doors.

Sounds like BS to me.

So, my general question is does all this sound right?

Maybe... What kind of door did you buy/did they install? Some manufacturers can't do this well.

Anyone know how much (or little actually) clearance they have between their door and ceiling when the door is up?

I'm getting ready to purchase some Clopays with this kit, but I the closest they can get to the ceiling is 12". (Need to allow room for the torsion spring mechanism above the tracks.) Some of the commercial doors can get higher, I recall.

I know the contractor is not happy, about 4 hours of wasted time. So am I just being an *** about getting another 10 (or less possibly) inches?

No, you are not being an *** for insisting that the contractor build your house to spec. That's the reason they are given a spec! Now that they have done this, you should watch them like a hawk.


Another thing to think about is that your car (on a lift) will raise up between the tracks, so having them hang down shouldn't be a problem, unless you are using a standard opener and it also has to hang down in the middle of the bay. (A manual door or jack shaft opener eliminates this problem.)

 

[pattenp]

My horizontal tracks are 8.5 inches off the ceiling using a highlift kit and a LM3800 opener.

And here's a pic of another door on a LM3800 set close to the ceiling. Door panel is less than 4 inches from ceiling when fully open.

View media item 15975

 

[Old Moparz]

I installed the overhead doors with high lift tracks in my own garage for the same reason, wanting more clearance for a car on a lift. It does make a difference unless you don't care that the door opens up & smashes the car or clears it. The installer who said it didn't matter either made a mistake when he ordered, or just doesn't give a ****. (Probably both)

Here is a link to an older topic that I posted in with a photo showing where mine ended up.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=682&highlight=High+Lift+Track

I have a ceiling height just shy of 12' & the overhead doors pass over the hood of the car in the raised position with at least 6 to 8 inches to spare.

 

[kbs2244]

(Need to allow room for the torsion spring mechanism above the tracks.)
Why?

 

[pattenp]

(Need to allow room for the torsion spring mechanism above the tracks.)
Why?

Because the torsion bar and springs and cable drums set above the plane of the horizontal tracks.

 

[my58]

Do not let anyone BS you, get it installed exactly how you want.

I like the others above have my garage less than 4 inches from my ceiling. The more space available above my lift the better.

There are lots of posts that show you how to do this and where to obtain the parts. I could not get anyone in my area willing to do this so I did it myself. It was not a hard job. Print out the directions from older posts and show it to your installer.

Just for anyone following along, if you need to get it closer than 4 inches it is possible. After doing mine I helped a friend who had a ceiling height of only about 10' 6". He wanted the door basically riding the ceiling. we cut into the drywall ceiling directly above the bar and rollers and boxed above the torsion spring and rollers. (basically the rollers became higher than the ceiling) this allows you to get the track and door closer to the ceiling.

We installed the liftmaster 3800 with the optional flex shaft. and it has been working great.

 

[upndown]

Springs can also be mounted at the back of horizontal tracks! Alot easier to change a broken spring versus a boxed in or recessed torsion assy.

 

[AndyL]

I have done a few doors, where the shaft is below the horizontals, its not that hard... but its not a factory option for anyone I know...

My personal door on the working side of my garage, is less than 3" from the ceiling... but I'd never go that tight on a customers door... on a cold day, thermal bowing will cause mine to scrape the ceiling at the center. (Had to try it)

just about anything can be done, you've just got to find a capable installer - which usually doesn't come cheap...

 

[wssix99]

(Need to allow room for the torsion spring mechanism above the tracks.)
Why?

If the spring system is lower than the highest track, the door will stop moving once it gets to the height of the spring. So, the spring either needs to be above the track or the spring needs to be mounted at the end of the tracks. (With this option, pulleys enter the equation and start taking up more space over the lift - but you can get the tracks closer to the ceiling.)

 

[AndyL]

If the spring system is lower than the highest track, the door will stop moving once it gets to the height of the spring. So, the spring either needs to be above the track or the spring needs to be mounted at the end of the tracks. (With this option, pulleys enter the equation and start taking up more space over the lift - but you can get the tracks closer to the ceiling.)

That applies in standard lift applications... Now think it through, this thread is about high lift... One doesn't run a door to shaft elevation in high lift - just enough to clear the lintel... Thus shaft can be mounted anywhere above the lintel.

 

[Modifieddriver]

All of this reinforces the reasons for using a cannister type O/H door.

No ugly looking tracks hanging from the ceiling. No door panels blocking out lighting when they're up. No door panels to get in the way of a car on a lift. No heavy suspended weight. No springs or torsion bars, etc., etc.

Only negative I see is the door to header gap when the door is closed. That's resolvable with flexible fiber brush seals.

 

[wssix99]

That applies in standard lift applications... Now think it through, this thread is about high lift... One doesn't run a door to shaft elevation in high lift - just enough to clear the lintel... Thus shaft can be mounted anywhere above the lintel.

If one can find a track system that will allow it. All I've ever seen don't have the curves needed to tuck the spring between the tracks and the wall. (They seem to just use the same shapes on the curves as they have for the low lift applications.)

 

[AndyL]

Your not curving, it's just breaking it away to clear that 7" for the door to clear the drums, curves aren't needed unless your breaking away in the >30° range, but you can adjust that angle by lowering the splice...

I did one last year with the drums at the lintel, with outside pickups to clear a portal beam 12" above...

 

[regularguysc]

Success! The contractor reworked the doors and now the track is only 10 inches from the ceiling. The doors are actually about 8 inches from the ceiling.

So I went from a 10' 6" cleearance from the track to the floor to an 11' 2" clearance. It was a pain for the contractor to un-install 2 doors and re-install them with the longer (higher) tracks, but in the long run well worth it for me.

 

[AMCguy]

It sounds to me like your contractor/installer needs a time out. I think he should go have his little tantrum, accept the fact that this is going to cost him some of his anticipated profit, then come back and give you exactly what you specified.

Using standard hardware, a 10 inch high lift kit is exactly what you want. You want a kit not just track extenders. This will put the top edge of the door within a couple of inches of the ceiling when it's fully open.

My ceiling height is 14' 4''. My doors are 12'. So my ceiling is 4'' higher than the top of my doors than yours is. My installation has a 14'' inch high lift option, so yours should be 10''.

In the picture you can see the drums are almost touching the ceiling. I can still replace a cable if I need to. The track angles upward to keep some of the door weight on the cables. When my doors are open, the face of the door is within 2'' of my ceiling.

By the way, I did my own installation.

 

[AMCguy]

Here is a High Lift technical drawing from my door manufacturer's website.

http://www.steel-craft.ca/Portals/0/Residential/Downloads/Technical Drawings/TD134HL.pdf

 

[wssix99]

Success! The contractor reworked the doors and now the track is only 10 inches from the ceiling. The doors are actually about 8 inches from the ceiling.

So I went from a 10' 6" cleearance from the track to the floor to an 11' 2" clearance. It was a pain for the contractor to un-install 2 doors and re-install them with the longer (higher) tracks, but in the long run well worth it for me.

How about a picture of the final product?

 

[MP&C]

We had Amarr doors installed on my shop, and knowing the paint booth was going in, one bay needed the door within one foot of the ceiling. Had the same issue, they installed the standard tracks at first and came back and re-installed the new top radius pieces.

Here's the tracks over the booth...

and the only pic I could find to show it with the door opened above the booth.