Will the real Robertson stand up

[mobiledynamics]

I've had various bits if not screwdrivers.

I don't have the slightest clue what brand of square screwdriver I have or the *good* bits I have - but they fit like a glove in Square Drive screwdrivers.

Other brands like Apex bits just don't fit like them.

Who makes a screwdriver handle with a Real Robby Bit these days.
And or where can I order them online.

My house is primarily using all square drives, if not Torx head for construction purposes. Mainly Torx - GRK these days..

 

[matt1977]

Pretty sure if you're in Canada, fuller made screwdrivers have genuine Robertson bits.

 

[canuckian]

Lee valley carries "the original Robertson" screwdrivers and bits

 

[buco]

I think Craftsman does as well.

 

[amitchell]

Wera robertsons fit very good. They don't engage on the corner of the bit, so they don't round off like others.

 

[wafrederick]

Mcfeelys does too

www.mcfeelys.com

 

[AE2]

Menards sells Masterforce made by Pratt Reed
http://menards.com/main/tools-hardware/hand-tools/nut-screwdrivers/2-piece-cushion-grip-square-recess-screwdriver-set/p-1502885-c-9158.htm

Craftsman sells them

Harry Epstein has a a Lutz 5 in 1 for $2.50
http://store.harryepstein.com/cp/MiscInventory/L51SD.html

 

[TwoInch]

what does "genuine robertson" mean? like a brand? im confused.

arent all square bits "robertson" tapered squares? id imagine they are like any other style, some are made well and some are not so good.

 

[carterbeauford]

what does "genuine robertson" mean? like a brand? im confused.

http://www.robertsonscrew.com/

registered trademark after the name of the guy who patented them in 1908

 

[matt1977]

what does "genuine robertson" mean? like a brand? im confused.

arent all square bits "robertson" tapered squares? id imagine they are like any other style, some are made well and some are not so good.

genuine robertson bits have a slight taper at the end, and are always a bit rather than one solid shank.

 

[TwoInch]

i see. are there non-tapered square bits?

i know what robertson screws and bits are, just didnt understand that there were roberstons, and squares, when it comes to screws. thought they were all robertson.

 

[mobiledynamics]

Hard to say....but when you use a Real Robby, the engagement is totally night and day compared to the rest..

 

[TwoInch]

Hard to say....but when you use a Real Robby, the engagement is totally night and day compared to the rest..

i know that feeling when using a good one, it feels like the screw and bit are one piece.

same with any screw type though. like the ACR phillips over a cheap one. never look back

 

[KPSquared]

Umm. Every square screw and every square bit up here in canuckistan is robertson. Tapered and such. Maybe order from a Canadian supplier. . .I buy my Robertson bits in 10 packs for when I'm building decks and doing construction. All the deck screws are Robertson. They tend to wear fast in a driver.

 

[mobiledynamics]

KP. I ran out of my stash of squares and then became a GRK convert. Pretty much covers a broad range. Including Concrete - in which the Caliburns replace the Tapcons everyday. Has Torx Squares made any impact to the tried and true square drive up North ?

 

[KPSquared]

The only big player I've seen is the PAM fasteners. They have a Torx style head. Use them for screwing floors down with the auto-feed screw guns.

http://pamfast.com/index.php/fasteners/list/category/subfloor/

On that note, I'd like to see everything move to a torx style head.

 

[Greg_R]

I have Wiha screwdrivers for hand use and Wera 868/4btz square drive bits for my impact gun. Both fit square drive screws perfectly. I'm using good quality screws like you'd get at McFeely's.

I've used the Wera bits heavily and they hold up much better than the generic options. If these ever die then I'm going to try their "Impaktor" line (supposedly even better for impact gun use).

 

[Acosi151]

Gray Canada calls theirs a "Square Recess"

Mastercraft calls theirs a "Square Head"

Fuller Calls theirs "Genuine Robertson"

Picquic calls theirs "Robertson"

Task calls theirs "Robertson®"

From my experience the only Robertson bits to use in a power drill are the Task bits (available almost exclusively in mom-and-pop hardware stores in Canada, Ace and Castle in my area). The #2's are the red one's you see at the counter. But note, just 'cause they are coloured doesn't mean that they are true Robertson.

Interesting trivia. Robertson was nearly the fastener of choice for Ford (and it would follow, the USA) but never happened because Robertson refused to sell the copyright to Henry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver#Robertson

Personally I'd rather jump off a cliff than use anything other than Robertson fasteners when working with wood... Best kept Canadian secret, right after Tim Hortons

 

[BigAl62]

Forgive me for a stupid question, but is there a good reason for a square drive versus Phillips or Torx?

 

[KPSquared]

Phillips ****. They slip and strip and don't hold the bit. Torx are great.

 

[wafrederick]

Torx tends to strip out also,this is one reason why I break these by hand first including allen head bolts.

 

[Acosi151]

Forgive me for a stupid question, but is there a good reason for a square drive versus Phillips or Torx?

You know that thing they do with a Dairy Queen Blizzard before they had it to you? The upside down flip and the ice cream and spoon don't fall on the ground?

Robertson's are like that when they're paired with a good driver or bit (No magnet required). I also find that they are much, much, much less likely to 'cam-out' like Phillips when under serious torque.

In modern applications there's probably no reason not to go torx except for availability of the fasteners. Robertson is really popular with modern day wooden boat builders who use a lot of brass hardware. I presume the fact that there is more 'meat' behind the drive surface in that soft metal helps? It's probably also just "period correct". A lot of wooden boats were made in Canadian shipyards and canoe factories in the previous 100 years.

 

[bpankratz]

I find it amazing that you guys in the states don't have Robertson bits, they are all over the place up here. I am in the RV industry, all of our campers come out of Indiana, they all have a screw head which can either accept a Roberston bit, OR a Philips bit, they work GREAT with both,(although I only use a Robertson bit).

I just googled them, apparently they are called Quadrex?

 

[lbgradwell]

Pretty sure if you're in Canada, fuller made screwdrivers have genuine Robertson bits.

I think Craftsman does as well.

Quite right. The Canadian Craftsmans are made by Fuller.

Every square screw and every square bit up here in canuckistan is robertson.

I don't think that is strictly true. They may be square, but not technically Robertson. For instance, the box of deck screws I have in my garage - Precision Permacoat ACQ-Approved with Spee-Drill Threads - do not seem to be licensed by P.L. Robertson and the word "Robertson" does not appear anywhere on the box. I don't think it appears on Paulin products either, but I couldn't find any in the garage.

I am in the RV industry, all of our campers come out of Indiana...

Oddly, the RV industry is about the only States-based industry where Robertson screws are dominant, though I understand they are becoming the norm with deck-builders too. Personally, I could not imagine building a deck with a Phillips screw; it would be a form of torture.

Perhaps this will clarify. A true Robertson driver is always a two-piece blade with an inserted bit:

The two tools on the top - the red power bit made by Robertson and the Craftsman screwdriver - are both real Robertsons. The bottom three tools - the Wiha screwdriver, the Wera insulated screwdriver and the Bosch power bit are NOT true Robertson; they are all square drive. This is true in spite of the fact that the Wiha is marked "Robertson"!

Here are close-ups of the real Robertsons that hopefully show the insert bit in the end of the blade:

...as opposed to the other three:

 

[BigAl62]

You know that thing they do with a Dairy Queen Blizzard before they had it to you? The upside down flip and the ice cream and spoon don't fall on the ground?

Robertson's are like that when they're paired with a good driver or bit (No magnet required). I also find that they are much, much, much less likely to 'cam-out' like Phillips when under serious torque.

In modern applications there's probably no reason not to go torx except for availability of the fasteners. Robertson is really popular with modern day wooden boat builders who use a lot of brass hardware. I presume the fact that there is more 'meat' behind the drive surface in that soft metal helps? It's probably also just "period correct". A lot of wooden boats were made in Canadian shipyards and canoe factories in the previous 100 years.

Thank you for the answer (and not being snotty about it). I asked because I haven't run into them much. The only ones I've used sucked (generic square drive with cheap drive bit), so I was curious. BTW: Phillips are designed to push the driver out (there's a thread here somewhere, but I couldn't find it).

 

[matthew]

Forgive me for a stupid question, but is there a good reason for a square drive versus Phillips or Torx?

Torx are good, and I wouldn't hesitate to use them (hate the *@#*#$ Phillips screws), but arguably if you're working somewhere the screw will rust, the Robertson is better because if you pound a driver into a rusty Robertson screw you still get good engagement. I've come across rusty Torx screws once or twice where driver engagement has been as issue.

So my rule of thumb is always use Robertson for wood screws, and I tend to prefer hex head bolts for metal, or hex washer head sheet metal screws.


Quadrex aren't bad, but they're a compromise. Not as good as regular Robertson, but I'll take them over a plain Phillips anyday if I need to make the Phillips users happy.

 

[bpankratz]

So what is the advantage of the "real" Robertson, vs the "fake" why go through the trouble of inserting a bit into the shaft, rather than having it all one peice?

 

[lbgradwell]

So what is the advantage of the "real" Robertson, vs the "fake" why go through the trouble of inserting a bit into the shaft, rather than having it all one peice?

I can't answer that. Perhaps it's cost-effective to make only the tip from the S2 heat-treated steel? For some reason the real Robertsons have always been made this way.

 

[KPSquared]

I don't think that is strictly true. They may be square, but not technically Robertson. For instance, the box of deck screws I have in my garage - Precision Permacoat ACQ-Approved with Spee-Drill Threads - do not seem to be licensed by P.L. Robertson and the word "Robertson" does not appear anywhere on the box. I don't think it appears on Paulin products either, but I couldn't find any in the garage.

Interesting! I guess I have always just called everything square "Robertson". I need to check what I have. I know my Fullers have the 2 piece bit but not much else I have do.

All my square drives are tapered either way. . .i think.

 

[mobiledynamics]

A Bump for Square Drives Screwdrivers.
Was working with 8/4 SO and working on some bulky connectors.
The square drive on the combo head was so much nicer to use than a phillips...

 

[thetreshon]

lbgradwell or anyone else, do you know if the 'licensed' Robertson's are licensed due to just exact specs, or are ALL of these licensed drivers using a ROBERTSON (manufactured in Canada) hardened tip?

Last time I remember contacting Robertson, they let me know that just the actual hardened tip (on their bits sold by them) were made in Canada...wondering if all drivers out there (any brand) that has separate tip is actually a Robertson manufactured tip.