what kind of welder do i need?

[rjy86]

i have never welded before but want to learn and i have seen welders at harbor frieght for like 129-170 bucks from 90 to 110 amp. .what size will i need to weld parts like brackets for mounting motorcycle seats, fenders etc.? im not gonna build any frames just want to be able to fabricate small parts or weld tabs for mounting to my frame ,things like that. will a flux welder do the job?, or do i need to run gas? and whats the smallest amp,voltage and all those other specs i need? i want a wire feed cuz that seems to be the easiest to learn with ,but i dont know the difference between mig and tig and those other terms..? i do know that if i dont use gas i have to use flux wire, but will flux hold anything? is it as good as welding with gas? it seems to be less hassle. i just need some basic info on what i can get away with for the least amount of cash. im just starting out so i dont want to drop alot of money on somthing, but i dont want some **** that is useless for fabricating. also if iwant to weld stainless or aluminum can i get ss or aluminum flux? or do i have to buy the correct wire and gas for each app and do i need a special welder or can i just use the correct wire/gas or flux with any wire feed welder? thanks for any info im not even sure this is the right place to post this. thanks again for the education.

 

[PAToyota]

Holy run-on sentences, Batman! Makes that incredibly hard to read...

You may want to read through some of the other welder threads. A lot of your questions have been discussed many times.

 

[george4]

I use a 220 wire feed machine with gas or flux core but I understand that 110 will work fine for the lighter metal, sub 1/8 unless you are really good. A friend uses a 110 only flux core with pretty good results on light metal. You would need different wires for different metals. What is commonly referred to as MIG is a wire machine is one that uses continuous wire pushed out the tip as the electrode, they can run DC + or DC – depending on if you use gas or flux core for shielding. The work piece is attached with a separate wire from the machine to complete the circuit. There is another thread going on Welding you should look at. Hobartwelders.com might be helpful also.

 

[DoyleDee]

One thing- you get what you pay for. My dad bought a $200 wire feed welder from Northern tool or harbor freight (can't remember which)- it was a very light duty welder. You couldn't use it for more than 20 minutes at a time or it would overheat and turn off (small duty cycle). I however recently bought a 125Amp Lincoln wire feed (110v) and am very happy with it (it cost me around $450 ),it has a built in fan and I can add gas if I want. I use it to weld pipe metal fencing around my property and can say it does a very good job. Hope the info helps.

 

[autoclassicnut]

I second the Lincoln welder, used mine for 12 + years now for hobby. I have used flux but switched to Gas (co and argon mix) much better welds, less slag splatter. Also easier to find consumable parts for it. I couldn't live without my mig, you can repair household items and larger uses too, fender repair on my 38 chevy truckand I weld anything I can get my hands on now!

 

[65WILDKAT]

When people ask that Question I always because only that person knows what they want to do with it? $$$.$$ is what you need to think about.
Do a little research and see what the Duty cycle is on a Mig Welder, Which is great for the Home owner. Also think if you will want to expand your needs in the future. I bought a Miller 220 volt and it was my first Welder I ever bought. I thought once I get the hang of it I will want to weld everything. It also is a great source of income...$$$. So many people need things fixed and they don't know a place to get what ever they need welded or they do not know a Welder. That is where I come in and make a few bucks.
I have had mine for 3 years now and it has paid for itself just about. Everyone I have known that bought a Mig and bought a smaller unit have been happy but some will tell me that they should have put out a few more bucks for the larger one. They end up being opened up to a whole new hobby/field that is fun. The few that have bought the smaller unit are happy with their purchase because it can fix just about anything around the house. As it was said before You get what you pay for and when something looks real good as far a deal goes think about being able to get parts or service on it in a year or so. That seems to be the biggest mistake people make looking for the cheapest deal.

 

[nmk_61802]

One thing that I have noticed in switching from a cheap Century welder to a more expensive Lincoln unit is that I get nicer looking weld with the Lincoln. My old Century seemed to have uneven speed and heat settings which made it hard to get dialed into the sweet spot, since it seemed to change every time you pulled the trigger.

Something to consider if you are an inexperienced welder and looking a cheap HF rig, but plan to use it often.

 

[BrianAltenhofel]

I've been lucky enough to be able to borrow MIG welders when I need them, but I've been having to borrow 110 volt welders because that is all that is run to my garage. Trust me when I say you will end up wanting a 220 if you ever have to do anything over (or even close to) an 1/8 inch. It was a pain doing the roll cage (.110) in my car with a 110 volt MIG because it was a process of do a short bead, wait a few minutes, do another short bead, drink a beer, get carried away, go buy some Jack to pass the time while it cools back off.

Recently, I bought a Forney C-5 stick welder (with the brazing tool and battery charger) at an estate sale for $25. Now I can justify to my wife spending the $$$ to run a 100 amp 220 volt sub in my garage (currently fed by a 20 amp 110 volt breaker).

By the way, if you ever taste the welding experience with 220 volts (I've gotten to once) you never want to go back to 110 volts. But if all your service can give you is 110 volts, then get the best that you can get in a 110 volt MIG and deal with it when those projects that end up being a hassle come around. MIG is 90% equipment and 10% skill, so basically anyone with a little bit of hand control can learn it and do a good job with it (I said "good", not "great").

I'm looking forward to getting some 220 in the garage and learning how to stick. Maybe I can quit cussing and spend less time actually paying attention to the monologue on "Nights with Alice Cooper" on the radio. He says the most predictable things, but the music selection is great.

 

[sam 8]

Look into your local community college and see if they have a welding classs you can take, you've asked lots of questions, they are all good ones but the simple anser is no one machine is going to do all you state you want to do with it.
Clean welds= gasMIG or TIg
A flux core machine can be a great teacher, I learned on a Lincoln 225 AC stick welder, that is what my boys learned on. We have a little Hobart 12o Handler with flux core wire in it for quick jobs and hauling in the toy trailer.
Seriously, read some books, take a class, getcha a used 225 stick machine, then step up to a wire welder. You can learn about penatration, puddle control, etc with the stick welder. Heck, I have a Lincoln Powermig 255c and I still won't let the old stick welder go.
Just my opinion; "your mileage may vary"

 

[Vicegrip]

I have hit the thermal once in 9 years on my 120 V Miller Mig and it has been on many a roof welding some metal far thicker than 1/8. Prep and weld the joint right and 120 Volt will produce good welds on 3/8. Mig, Tig, Stick, O/A all require more than 10% skill. There are plenty of guys that think they can Mig that can't even with a 220V machine. Welders sometimes call them hot glue guns. Stick is still a great method for welding large stock. Not as clean as Mig and harder to get the hang of but $ for $ the king on heavy metal.

For what you describe brackets and stuff a 120 V machine will cover it just fine. Easy to use and the often smaller gun is easier to see around than a big 220 V machines gun. Read the instruction book and learn the methods on practice scraps before making anything you want to put in service. There are lots of welding forums as well.

Process, prep and skill are all key.

 

[e-tek]

First and foremost - learn how to weld with an Oxy-acetylene outfit. This is where the boy becomes a man. Then you can get a 110 cheapy and weld nicely even to 1/4" - and if you need to weld more, go back to the oxy-A! I put 220 in my shop, have welded qtr panels, floor pans and more with the 110 and frames and heavy stuff with the Oxy-A. I have yet to want a 220machine enough to shell out $700.00 - but then I'm cheap! If I could find a 220 used for 200.00 I'd be all over it.

 

[nissan_crawler]

I have hit the thermal once in 9 years on my 120 V Miller Mig and it has been on many a roof welding some metal far thicker than 1/8. Prep and weld the joint right and 120 Volt will produce good welds on 3/8.

Only if you preheat, and I still wouldn't advise it. 1/4" is about max for my 220 175 amp machine for proper penetration.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with a 120, and would go straight to something like a refurbed HH187 from toolking.com. You'll get a much better welder, and won't be nearly as restricted on what you can do.

 

[Kirby]

RJY: Boy did you open up a can of worms...you might as well of asked who to vote for next November. That said, my two cents: I agree with e-tek about the oxy-acetylene set. There is so much you can do with it, but it does take some practice. Probably $300+ for a set, and then you need tanks. Then later get your MIG. I paid $650 for a Hobart 175 (220V)(with tank and cart) about 7 years ago, have been through several car projects(bodies, frames, brackets, etc.) and never run out of duty-cycle, or had an ounce of trouble with it...but a Miller 210 would be a better machine. For small brackets on motorcycle projects in a home shop a 110 should suit you just fine. I can make bad welds with the Hoart but that's me, not the machine. There are many books and videos that would help you greatly, then it is practice, practice, practice. Good luck, Kirby

 

[Stanger]

Personally, I wouldn't bother with a 120, and would go straight to something like a refurbed HH187 from toolking.com. You'll get a much better welder, and won't be nearly as restricted on what you can do.

Very good advice. "A" grade refurb HH187 from ToolKing. 'Nuff said.

 

[NITRO-BTU]

Hello Folks, I Am A Beginner Welder Only Welding Small Items 3/16" Or Less On Three Different Occasions. I Have The Hf 90 Amp. Mig Flux Core Wire Type. I Have An Auto Darkening Helmet Which Is Great; However, I Am Having Trouble Seeing Where I'm Welding. I Have Tried All The Variable Possible Light Settings [ From 9 -13 ], And Found The Lowest Number To Work The Best. I Can Not Actually See The Weld Puddle Only The Red Glow From It.
Also, The Welds Look Terrible For The Most Part. Any Help Would Be Appreciated. Thank-you, Jim.

 

[PAToyota]

Problems I see: Harbor Freight and Flux Core.

 

[rickairmedic]

Nitro I would be willing to bet that your auto dark hood is from harbor freight and thats your problem not the welder . I started out with a HF auto dark and thought it was great then I picked up a hobart auto dark from TSC OMG what a differance I could see the weld. I now have a miller elite big window .I picked up the Hobart for around $75.00 out the door and it was easily 10 times the hood the HF was . I then got a deal and a half from a freind on the miller and again it is a better hood than the hobart . I buy alot of stuff from HF but learned my lesson on hoods buy a good one and you will be able to see the weld dont get me wrong for hobby welding you dont need a $300-$400 speedglass although they are nice but you do need to spend more than $50 bucks to get a decent auto dark hood .


Rick

 

[BrianAltenhofel]

"9-13" and "works best on 9" makes me think you have the same HF one I have. I got the HF one free, and it *****. Then I used a Hobart while at a buddy's, and I decided the HF REALLY sucked. As soon as I can get in the financial position to do so, I'll be getting a Hobart autodark. Right now, the HF one is acting as a small parts bucket while I use an old school hood.

By the way, I recommend at least learning to weld a little bit with a non-autodarkening hood. I see the autodark as a luxury that's great to have, but when I went from autodark to non-autodark, it took me quite a while to get my bearings. But now when I use an autodark, I feel more confident about what I am welding since I've done it before without it.

 

[parish8]

i learned to weld myself. seems like about anyone can stick stuff together with a mig and with just a little practice it will start to look good. i have a 10year old clark and have used it a lot. i really dont see a problem with buying a cheap machine. if you find out you need something better you can sell the cheap one for 1/2 what you paid for it and not be out much. i use my clark so much that sometime soon i will step up to a lincoln or miller but i got 10x more than my $200 out of it.

i consider myself handy. i can build things and fabricate things. i built my own garage, do major car projects from roll cages to some extreme turbo set ups, headers, stuff like that. that being said i got myslef a tig a couple of years ago and damn that thing was hard to learn how to use. sometimes you see guys post up about tig or mig. if you only have one machine and are new to welding you would be nuts to only have a tig.

 

[nissan_crawler]

x2 on a Miller Elite. They're a good compromise between quality and price for an auto dark helmet. I love mine.

 

[lhatch]

I have two Oxy/Acet sets. As well I have a HF MIG-100, an Everlast TIG 200amp AC/DC/pulsed and a plasma cutter. The only thing in the batch I can live without is the MIG-100. It is too small and the flux core wire just makes a mess, it has no gas with it. I like the O/A but selling my larger set on craigslist now. Big problem there is the heat warps the metals.

If you like O/A you will love TIG. I have only used the TIG since I bought it. I tried a Lincoln TIG when buying filler rods one day and it was great. But I could not afford a Lincoln. Took a change on an Everlast unit works just as well and was a lot less money.

 

[NITRO-BTU]

Hey Guys, I Don't Know If I Can Blame "not Seeing The Weld Puddle" While Welding With The Auto-darkening Helmet, It's Not A Hf. I Have The Astro Model No. 8050. I Think They Cost Apx. $60, Really Cheap. Thanks, Jim.
Correction To My First Post: Variable Darkening 7-13

 

[trackwelder]

Don't waste your money on those cheap 110 units. I have a sp125 running 0.23 wire for sheetmetal. All my other welding is done with one of three miller mm200, which are 250 amp machines. You will not be happy with the cheap welder. Save your money and buy at least a 175 amp mig.

 

[parish8]

Don't waste your money on those cheap 110 units. I have a sp125 running 0.23 wire for sheetmetal. All my other welding is done with one of three miller mm200, which are 250 amp machines. You will not be happy with the cheap welder. Save your money and buy at least a 175 amp mig.

what size will i need to weld parts like brackets for mounting motorcycle seats, fenders etc.? im not gonna build any frames just want to be able to fabricate small parts or weld tabs for mounting to my frame ,things like that.

i see you have welder in your name. makes me think you weld for a living, if that was my trade i would have nothing but the best too. its easy to just tell someone to go buy a $600+ machine but for what he says he will be doing a cheap unit would get the job done nicely.

 

[trackwelder]

i see you have welder in your name. makes me think you weld for a living, if that was my trade i would have nothing but the best too. its easy to just tell someone to go buy a $600+ machine but for what he says he will be doing a cheap unit would get the job done nicely.

Yes I do weld at my job and we have great equipment. Lincoln 500 amp vantage welders, Ln 25 feeders etc are the norm around here. This top notch equipment lets us be productive and make great welds. I have top grade stuff at my garage because I know how important sound welds are. Sure you can weld with some junk chicom welder, but they are not even close to welding with a good machine. It takes a lot of skill to produce good welds with a cheap unit.I have had several friends who bought cheap welders and the first bead they lay down with my equipment they regret wasting the money on the crappy welders.

 

[Stanger]

I am not a professional weldor, but I still won't waste my time with a 110v machine. I said it earlier in this thread and I'll say it again. HH187.

 

[trackwelder]

I am not a professional weldor, but I still won't waste my time with a 110v machine. I said it earlier in this thread and I'll say it again. HH187.

I could not agree with you more. The only reason I have one was it came in a package deal. They all claim to weld up to 1/4" and thats bull, unless you bevel and multipass. I have had to weld away from my shop many times with 110 machines and I preheat with a torch so the puddle will wet in. Pure garbage in my opinion, but what do I know I have only been at this for the last twenty years or so. I have burned a full 44# fluxcore spool in a day more times than I care to remember.

 

[goodfellow]

what kind of welder do i need?

You need a BIG welder with lots of dials and adjustment "thingies", and it should weld all kinds of metal with the same filler material stuff.

It should cost less than $100, have a lifetime warranty, and be made in the USA so that most of your replacement parts will cost less than $5.00

Seriously, why would you ever buy a welder without first testing the darn thing out. Everyone has an opinion, but you need to get some good hands-on experience with a machine before making any such purchase.

I mean; you test drive a car before you buy it -- why is this decision any different.

 

[nissan_crawler]

i see you have welder in your name. makes me think you weld for a living, if that was my trade i would have nothing but the best too. its easy to just tell someone to go buy a $600+ machine but for what he says he will be doing a cheap unit would get the job done nicely.

No, it wouldn't. He may THINK it would, until he uses a real welder. I had a guy at work swear by his HF welder...until he was at my house one day. I handed him the lead for the hh175 and asked him if he wanted to try a real welder. He scoffed, ran a bead and said... "So, how much are these and where did you get it?"

It's like running a moving company with a Datsun pickup. Sure, eventually you might get it done with enough time and enough passes, but with a real moving truck, you can do it in one shot and no waiting.

I have welded with the HH 175 set on 3 for 1.5 hours straight, then on 4 for a half hour, never hit the duty cycle. I've used an HF welder (friend was wondering why he couldn't weld, he was only 1/4 the problem), and hit the duty cycle in 3 minutes. It was about 3 on, 5 off. The 2 hour job with the Hobart would have been a 5.3 hour job with the HF.

I am not a professional weldor, but I still won't waste my time with a 110v machine. I said it earlier in this thread and I'll say it again. HH187.

Agreed, again.

what kind of welder do i need?

You need a BIG welder with lots of dials and adjustment "thingies", and it should weld all kinds of metal with the same filler material stuff.

It should cost less than $100, have a lifetime warranty, and be made in the USA so that most of your replacement parts will cost less than $5.00

Seriously, why would you ever buy a welder without first testing the darn thing out. Everyone has an opinion, but you need to get some good hands-on experience with a machine before making any such purchase.

I mean; you test drive a car before you buy it -- why is this decision any different.

Good luck finding where you can do that. All I've seen that will do that are high priced welding supply places, and many of them won't even do it.

 

[PAToyota]

No, it wouldn't. He may THINK it would, until he uses a real welder.

I agree wholeheartedly!

I mentioned in another thread about welding classes that a real advantage is being able to try out some equipment that you would not normally consider walking out and purchasing. Taking a class really opened my eyes to what I would have considered to be an "oversized" machine for my use. No, you may not be welding 1" steel plate all day, but having that extra capacity means that you aren't running the machine to the limits and fighting it all day just to weld 1/4" material.

 

[goodfellow]

Good luck finding where you can do that. All I've seen that will do that are high priced welding supply places, and many of them won't even do it.

High priced -- maybe, but if an LWS won't let you try a machine, the company isn't worth doing business with anyway. Most let you test representative equipment and provide excellent advise to inexperienced customers.

You may pay a bit more for the machine at an LWS versus the big box store, but for an initial purchase they will also give big discounts on accessories and gas when you purchase the entire outfit. At least you'll have a machine that's setup and accessorized correctly for your skill and purpose.

To the original OP I'd like to say that I can't count how many times I've seen people buy the wrong machine and regret the purchase within a few weeks.

There must be 20 guys in my car club that bought the cheap 110v units (and some that bought name brand 110v units) only to regret the purchase because it didn't do what they expected. The were quickly sold at discount, or wound up as conversation pieces on the shelf -- that's at least $100 waste and would offset any higher price differences at a reputable LWS.

For automotive work, the HF (and similar brands) 90 amp 110v flux core machines are the most discarded units I have ever seen --

Sorry -- I'll get off my soapbox now

 

[trackwelder]

I agree wholeheartedly!

I mentioned in another thread about welding classes that a real advantage is being able to try out some equipment that you would not normally consider walking out and purchasing. Taking a class really opened my eyes to what I would have considered to be an "oversized" machine for my use. No, you may not be welding 1" steel plate all day, but having that extra capacity means that you aren't running the machine to the limits and fighting it all day just to weld 1/4" material.

I agree taking a class would benefit in more ways than one. Having someone show you the basics like stickout,angle,travel speed ect, will really be helpful. The school I went to has hobby classes on saturdays twice a month for $175.00. When I wanted to start welding aluminium a few years ago I went back for a few classes. Some of the best money I ever spent on welding was in the form of school.

 

[NITRO-BTU]

The Welded 1/8" Steel Clutch Bracket Broke At The Welded Spot. Looks As If There Was No Penatration, Only Very Porous Crusty Shell That Apparently Held The Two Pieces Together For Awhile. I Can't Understand Why The Metal Didn't Fuse Together, It Was Molten Red For Awhile, However I Could Not See The Weld Puddle. Any Ideas Or Help Here Would Be Appreciated, I Just Don't Know What I Did Wrong, Or What Happened. Thanks-to-all, Jim.
This clutch bracket belongs to my 28 year young lawn tractor, 11hp, 38" cutting deck. I would attach some "pics," HERE, but I just don't know how to do that. Please, advise me if you can. Thanks, Jim.

 

[parish8]

The Welded 1/8" Steel Clutch Bracket Broke At The Welded Spot. Looks As If There Was No Peneration, Only Very Porous Crusty Shell That Apparently Held The Two Pieces Together For Awhile. I Can't Understand Why The Metal Didn't Fuse Together, It Was Molten Red For Awhile, However I Could Not See The Weld Puddle. Any Ideas Or Help Here Would Be Appreciated, I Just Don't Know What I Did Wrong, Or What Happened. Thanks-to-all, Jim.

a pic would be nice. i am sure these guys can help you with your welding. something not related to the welding is how much force there is an a clutch, especialy if you have an after market presure plate of some kind.

if you just have a metal tab welded on one side with the cable going thru it or something like that then it is probably going to break after some time no matter how good the weld is. 1/8" isn't very thick and there is a lot of force on that cable/linkage. without knowing more about what you are trying to do i am guessing you might need some kind of gusset or boxing to make it stronger.

for example i needed to move my transmision mounting point back a ways. i could have welded a plate onto the back of my existing cross member and drilled some holes in it but to make sure it was strong enough i boxed it all.

 

[Stanger]

I used a Miller 252 today. Thats what you need.

 

[NITRO-BTU]

Hello It's Me .. Nitro, Can Any Of You Out There Explain To Me How To Make A "weld Puddle" So The Two Pieces Will Fuse Together ? I Am The Beginner Welder, Self Taught At This Point. Thanks, Parish 8 For Your Input.
All Other Suggestions Are Welcome, Thanks, Jim.

 

[PAToyota]

Can Any Of You Out There Explain To Me How To Make A "weld Puddle" So The Two Pieces Will Fuse Together ?.

With what process?

 

[trackwelder]

Hello It's Me .. Nitro, Can Any Of You Out There Explain To Me How To Make A "weld Puddle" So The Two Pieces Will Fuse Together ? I Am The Beginner Welder, Self Taught At This Point. Thanks, Parish 8 For Your Input.
All Other Suggestions Are Welcome, Thanks, Jim.

Kind of tough to explain over the internet. Drive around your town find some guys welding and ask to watch. Bring a helmet and some beer

 

[NITRO-BTU]

PAToyota, If you go back thru the past posts #15,#22, and #33, you'll get an idea of what I've gone thru. The Welder is a Harbor Freight 120VAC. 90AMP, EASY-MIG, flux corred wire welder. Please review, and give me your take on the "weld puddle" Problem.
Thank You, NITRO.

 

[PAToyota]

MIG? Pull the trigger until the puddle develops and then drag it along with you...